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Old 07-30-2002, 12:39 PM   #1
Oldnslow
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Default 2.2 or 2.5 liter STI for US market?

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I have heard that Subaru might bring in the STI with a larger motor for the US market. Sounds like an exciting possibility to me--easy way to get bigger power with reliability, they already have the engine block, and they have no need to worry about homologation as they already build the 2 liter. Might be a more cost effective way of providing large power and torque increase without the more costly internals of the STI 2 liter. I
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Old 07-30-2002, 01:15 PM   #2
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This is really not a bad idea if we can get the 2.2L engine same as the 22B's.

But most importantly, there should be no more weight added to the front end of the car since it's already rather front heavy.
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Old 07-30-2002, 01:54 PM   #3
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Yes, it seems like if you could get a reliable, warrantied, 280hp motor, along with the 6 speed, the diffs, the big brakes, the suspension, and upgraded interior and maybe lights, all for a little over 30Gs, it might be an attractive option. A displacement increase might be the answer. Whether they would do this just for the North American market is questionable, but they have the means to do it pretty easily I suspect. It would mean the motor would not be as tweakable without all the bells and whistles of a true STI motor, and wouldn't rev as high, but the power and torque would be pretty impressive, especialy if they went to a turbocharged 2.5 liter.
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Old 07-30-2002, 03:01 PM   #4
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doubt it. They'd have to get the new 2.2l EPA cert for the US, along with tooling the factory, and designing the internals/electronics for the US market. I don't see it being cheaper than importing the 2.0L with more boost.
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Old 07-30-2002, 03:58 PM   #5
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I think Jewbaru is probably right, and we will end up with the 2 liter tuned for our gas and emission requirements. It is fun to speculate, however.
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Old 07-30-2002, 06:29 PM   #6
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I'll keep this short: It'll never happen.
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Old 07-30-2002, 07:14 PM   #7
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shut up, **** you, you ****ing dick, always naysaying, everything i create, you piece of ****, you create something like inward singing, you ****ing ****!
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p.s. i really am just joking, hehe
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Old 07-30-2002, 10:05 PM   #8
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The argument that Subaru would be unwilling to design and manufacture a configuration for the US that is not offered in the other markets.

That being said, Subaru is losing the press war with the EVO and they may choose not to bring the current incarnation of the STi to the US. They may wait until they have a stronger offering and a 2.5 turbo would certainly be stronger.

Speculation is fun isn't it?
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Old 07-30-2002, 10:28 PM   #9
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losing the press war? from what i see, with the rumors of both a mitsubishi evo and ralliart evo, the evo is losing. from the news i've been reading, the possibility of a watered down evo seems more likely than a watered down sti (relatively speaking). and besides, i think the only official news i've seen on either is mitsubishi's president saying that they're going to bring it with '250+ hp' and awd.
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Old 07-30-2002, 10:50 PM   #10
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Excuse me for butting in, but why wouldn't Subaru design a car just for the USDM? I believe they already did it once...

...the 2.5RS.

oh and the Outback, Outback SUS etc...
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Old 07-31-2002, 05:48 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Prez&SUS
Excuse me for butting in, but why wouldn't Subaru design a car just for the USDM? I believe they already did it once...

...the 2.5RS.

oh and the Outback, Outback SUS etc...
uhm...because it's all about $$$...the 2.5RS was pretty much a 'feeler car' to test the market for demand for a high-performance compact car. The 2.5RS also used a lot of pre-existing components and an engine which was already in use in the U.S. and therefore needing no new certs.

The Outback and SUS are both pretty high-margin vehicles with mostly cosmetic upgrades and I believe are sold in other markets (the Outback).

The cost of developing a whole new powerplant for the U.S. market alone simply because 'it would be nice' is not justified in the eyes of a company.

The STi will most likely be an EJ20 w/ a larger turbo (and hopefully a stronger tranny to avoid the growing negative opinions springing up about warranty issues, etc.).

But...I guess we must all sit back and wait. *sigh*

-Milan
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Old 07-31-2002, 06:05 AM   #12
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I was about to say the 2.5L also.

The Legacy had a DOHC 2.5L from MY96-99, (also only the MY98 RS and Forster).

[I believe] NA got the 2.5L for 4 years before the new SOHC 2.5L engine was first used in a JDM vehicle.
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Old 07-31-2002, 09:27 AM   #13
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also, it's not like the 2.5RS was anything new.

They took the Legacy engine which had been used for years, mated it to the Impreza chassis (with some random WRX parts, like the hood and bumper). They put them together and there you have it. They didn't have to do any sort of special engineering and testing for it.

They also only made 15,000 in 4 years, so it was merely a test market car.

a 2.5L turbo does not exist anywhere in the FHI HQ. That would take more research and testing than they could deem worthwhile. They wouldn't use it in JP, so what would be their motivation?
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Old 07-31-2002, 10:44 AM   #14
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Between the cost of having a diff. engine for the US version and having to actually research and build that engine I'd be surprised if they made a US only version...
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Old 07-31-2002, 11:01 AM   #15
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We'll get the same STi they already have in Europe, tuned for U.S. emissions. Wait...that's not a sun in the sky, it's a pie!

Kevin
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Old 07-31-2002, 12:53 PM   #16
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Most manufacturers that offer higher performance versions of "base" models would offer a larger motor as part of the package to justify the higher cost and other upgraded features. Granted, the 2 liter STI is a significantly better motor than the WRX 2 liter. I'd still like to see Subaru "stun the world" with a turbo 2.5 with big power and a wide torque band on the STI. Hey, maybe even introduce it first here and then to the rest of the world! Wishful thinking.....
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Old 07-31-2002, 01:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oldnslow
Most manufacturers that offer higher performance versions of "base" models would offer a larger motor as part of the package to justify the higher cost and other upgraded features. Granted, the 2 liter STI is a significantly better motor than the WRX 2 liter. I'd still like to see Subaru "stun the world" with a turbo 2.5 with big power and a wide torque band on the STI. Hey, maybe even introduce it first here and then to the rest of the world! Wishful thinking.....
It would be nice. Happened with the 22B. Now think of the WRC. Limited to a 2.0L in their cars. Again, would be nice, but world wide, higher than 2.0 means you may get additional taxes on them as 'gas guzzlers'.

Remember, gas in Europe and Japan costs about 4x more than in the US.

--kC
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Old 07-31-2002, 01:53 PM   #18
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Actually I heard the new U.S. STI is going to be a twin turbo engine based on the H6 3.0 liter boxer 6. It'll be in upwards of 450hp, six speeds, and be a vette z06/911 turbo killer.

jb
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Old 07-31-2002, 02:17 PM   #19
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/\ /\ ummmmmmmm......no. I beleive the H6 is more of a luxury motor, not a tried-and-true performance motor, so i doubt there will be twin-turbos anywhere in the world, much less in America. Who ever told you that, tell them i have beachh-front property in Idaho that i will sell them(meaning that in a sarcastic way!!)
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Old 07-31-2002, 03:55 PM   #20
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Speculation, it is. I'm with JGard.

I said this in another 2.5L STi thread a couple days ago: I don't think Subaru would benefit from designing a whole new TURBO engine just for the American market. I mean....

1. They're not a rich company...
2. American emissions are a PITA enough as it is...
3. They've already GOT the WRC past and experience built into the existing WRX and STi offerings.

So... I honestly think that IF we see an STi, it'll stay the way it is.
I mean yes, they may wait til the body redesign in a couple years, but.... who knows?

Believe me, a 2.5 turbo (even a 2.2) would be a far sweeter engine than the 2.0. But Subaru'd have to do some major internals work to get the 2.5 ready. Less for the 2.2 (because the 22B's been done), but still.... to get it to the US?

HA.

Just get a Tommy Kaira stroker package for the 2.0L. Heh...


I'll tell you now, though, that if the H6 goes under the knife for upgrading (no it hasn't been done YET here, but it might!!), especially in a Legacy model, I'll be in line.
-S2-
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Old 07-31-2002, 04:47 PM   #21
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Ok Ok, I admit, I made up the H6 thing. It probably had more credibility than most sti rumors around here though..

jb
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Old 07-31-2002, 06:16 PM   #22
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IF a 2.2/2.5 STI was to ever happen the question is can a stock 6 speed tranny handle the torque.
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Old 07-31-2002, 09:17 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Albert
IF a 2.2/2.5 STI was to ever happen the question is can a stock 6 speed tranny handle the torque.
Sure, people make reliable trannies for much more power in other cars, why couldn't Subbie do it?

Bigger issue I haven't seen mentioned here is pricing. Let's pretend we got a turbo'd 2.5L, that'd likely be pushing big numbers, maybe 300-350hp. Subbie would want/need to charge relatively a lot of money for that. Would people pay $35k+ for an Impreza? Some of you guys might, but not many other people. It's still a $16k econobox.

I see no reason to "upgrade" to an sti from a wrx, considering the extra cost, unavoidably higher insurance. My payments are big enough as is.

Paul
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Old 07-31-2002, 09:28 PM   #24
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I'd pay more for the extra low end torque of the 2.5 turbo, as well as the extra hp potential. but, only if the don't put more luxury crap on it.

It's looking more and more like a plain old run of the mill WRX for me, though. not that I'm complaining
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Old 07-31-2002, 11:38 PM   #25
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I observed that the EVO engine has a higher compression ratio of 8.5 as opposed to the WRX or STI's 8.0. Higher compression ratio produce more low end torque. And the EVO produce a fat torque curve. Why Subaru does not use higher compression in the engine to give us more low end torque?

Greg
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