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Old 08-17-2011, 05:19 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default BMW Confirms Diesel-M, High-Performance Engine to Find Numerous Other Applications


http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2011...-applications/

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BMW will introduce a new high-performance diesel-powered 5-Series model next spring that will expand the German maker’s vaunted M division, TheDetroitBureau.com has confirmed, with the triple-turbo V-8 oil-burner set to also be used in a variety of other BMW products, likely including its X-series sport-activity vehicles.

Rumors of the diesel M have been circulating for several weeks, but TheDetroitBureau.com has confirmed details with a variety of BMW sources who say the maker wants to prove out the potential of the high-mileage technology – taking advantage of a variety of new technologies, including the unusual triple-turbocharging system meant to eliminate even the most minor turbo lag.

The new model is likely to get the unusual designation of either BMW 550dM or 550dXM, the latter referring to its all-wheel-drive system. With rare exception, most models produced by the Bavarian maker’s performance sub-brand flash the vaunted “M” first and foremost. But the alternative nomenclature would reflect the unusual powertrain under the hood of the 5-Series BMW.

The 3.0-liter straight-six diesel will use a small turbo to instantly build boost for launch, two larger twin-scroll turbochargers then spooling up for higher-speed performance. The basic engine is the same as the current BMW 3.0-liter diesel but with significant modifications, including a new cylinder head. It will make use of a variety of advanced technologies, including direct injection and BMW’s Valvetronic system, designed to optimize the function of intake and exhaust engine valves.

Sources tell TheDetroitBureau.com that the 550dM will deliver slightly less horsepower than the new gas-powered BMW M5, which makes 560 ponies. Final numbers will likely be in the 500 to 550 range. Torque, meanwhile, will well exceed the 500 lb-ft of the new M5, and could push north of 650 lb-ft.

To handle those tire-spinning forces, “You have to go to all-wheel-drive,” explained one senior BMW official, “otherwise you’ll be spinning your tires all day.”

(For a first look at the next-gen BMW M5, Click Here.)

While several makers have demonstrated the potential for diesel power on the track, the move to put it into a high-performance street car is a significant breakthrough. Mercedes-Benz briefly offered a diesel model wearing its AMG badge but that lasted only a year on the market. BMW has long considered the option but it took several significant developments for the company’s comfort level to reach the necessary threshold.

“Diesel technology has come a long way in the last five years,” said one BMW executive, adding that the maker also had to be certain buyers would be able to get the necessary quality of diesel fuel in any market – notably including the U.S. – where the 550dM will be sold.

For the record, M brand global marketing manager Brian Watts confirmed that the maker is looking at a diesel M car, though he said, “We’re not finished with that program yet.” But other insiders said only the final details, such as performance specifications – and the final brand nomenclature – have yet to be firmed up, with the new diesel muscle car due for introduction next spring, very likely with an unveiling at a major auto show like the Geneva Motor Show.

The engine is intended to find applications beyond the 5-series M edition, sources agree. It is designed to fit in a variety of additional BMW products and would most likely show up next in one or more of the maker’s X-Series Sport-Activity Vehicles, such as the X5 or X6. But a version of the 550d engine might also be melded with the maker’s flagship 7-Series sedan “a year or more later,” said a source.

BMW officials say they hope to steal a march on competitors – but, said one, “I expect to see others follow,” a reference to both Mercedes and Audi. The executive said he was particularly surprised that the latter German brand had not moved into the diesel performance segment more quickly, as it would play off Audi’s link to diesel power. The maker has dominated the Le Mans endurance series for much of the past decade with its various diesel-powered race cars.
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Old 08-17-2011, 05:43 PM   #2
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I want it in an X5
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Old 08-17-2011, 05:46 PM   #3
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sweet.
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Old 08-18-2011, 02:20 PM   #4
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AWD diesel powered 5 series M? What the hell is happening to the world?

Ultimate DD MONSTER?
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Old 08-18-2011, 02:35 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by KoalaSlim View Post
AWD diesel powered 5 series M? What the hell is happening to the world?

Ultimate DD MONSTER?
yes, very ultimate. do want.
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Old 08-18-2011, 02:52 PM   #6
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I'd get one for the wife and have grins with it on the sly... And enjoy it on the road trips. Wagon form and a stick shift and I'll buy one for myself. Not that THATS going to happen...
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:20 PM   #7
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This is all well and good, but what I want is a 320d. There are plenty of high performance options in the US.
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:30 PM   #8
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Now thats one diesel looking M!
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:53 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
This is all well and good, but what I want is a 320d. There are plenty of high performance options in the US.
Yes. The 335d is nice and all, but $10,000 higher starting price than a 328i? Please.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:02 AM   #10
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M is really departing from it's previous stance about only having high-revving atmospheric gasoline engines, for their pure rev response all the way to redline.

First it was turbos... Now turbo-diesel is rumored. I'll bet the redline on that is really impressive.
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:16 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
This is all well and good, but what I want is a 320d. There are plenty of high performance options in the US.
Agreed.
Although, if I had extra cash to burn, I'd get myself a 335d in a heartbeat .
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Old 08-19-2011, 02:14 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
This is all well and good, but what I want is a 320d. There are plenty of high performance options in the US.
This.


The 325e that should have been.
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Old 08-19-2011, 04:19 PM   #13
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This.


The 325e that should have been.
I loved my 325e
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Old 08-19-2011, 04:46 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
M is really departing from it's previous stance about only having high-revving atmospheric gasoline engines, for their pure rev response all the way to redline.

First it was turbos... Now turbo-diesel is rumored. I'll bet the redline on that is really impressive.
Ok. You go engineer a high revving naturally aspirated engine that meets emissions targets, output targets, and costs targets. Then get back to me.
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Old 08-19-2011, 04:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7

Ok. You go engineer a high revving naturally aspirated engine that meets emissions targets, output targets, and costs targets. Then get back to me.
Now you've done it. *HTBS wall o' text*
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:45 PM   #16
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triple turbos, how do they work?

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Old 08-19-2011, 06:22 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by E. Nick View Post
I want it in an X5
whats happening in ENickCarBuying
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Old 08-19-2011, 06:24 PM   #18
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triple turbos, how do they work?

no I think he did it,giggle sorry Hip you have to admit it is funny..
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Old 08-20-2011, 12:56 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Ok. You go engineer a high revving naturally aspirated engine that meets emissions targets, output targets, and costs targets. Then get back to me.
Porsche 3.8 liter X51. 408 naturally aspirated H6 power.

Lamborghini/Audi 5.2 liter V10.

I am not an automotive power-train engineer, but others are.


BMW ///M division used to make statements about their engineering ideals, and how naturally aspirated high revving engines were their focus, and for real technical reasons. That isn't me talking, that was them, some time ago, now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoweek
BMW's M division has always had a strict philosiphy for its M engines. Flexible, fast-revving and with racecar-like rev-limits, BMW's M engines really were racecar engines for the road.
Evidently they hold to that about as well as Subaru holds to All-AWD, All-the-time.
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Old 08-20-2011, 11:16 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by slaytalera View Post
triple turbos, how do they work?
Not sure if serious but... I speculated about this in another thread. Based on what I have seen from regular sequential turbos (Supra, Rx-7, Legacy) and twin charged engines (VW), it could work like this:



Basically the electrically driven compressor (electric turbo, whatever you want to call it) will supply boost at the lower rpm range and a butterfly valve will separate its air from the two actual turbos. The exhaust will spool up the two turbos and a relief valve (kinda like a blowoff valve) will be open while they come up to speed. Then when it's time for the twin turbos to come online, the butterfly valve will open, the relief valve will close, and the electric compressor may be de-clutched.
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Old 08-20-2011, 11:24 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Porsche 3.8 liter X51. 408 naturally aspirated H6 power.

Lamborghini/Audi 5.2 liter V10.

I am not an automotive power-train engineer, but others are.
Yeah we all know how BMW's V10 worked out in the emissions department... terrible fuel economy when put in those big boats. Their current n/a V8 didn't work out well either or they wouldn't have just scrapped it like that. The other problem with the high revving engines is that there is basically no application for them outside of these low production cars, so cost sharing becomes difficult.

For the record I like high revving n/a engines. But I think they are pointless in M cars because M cars are too heavy now and they've been that way for about 10 years. When I drove the now-outgoing V10 M5 a couple years ago I wasn't impressed because the car was too heavy. Big fat vehicles like that need torque.
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Old 08-20-2011, 11:31 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Yeah we all know how BMW's V10 worked out in the emissions department... terrible fuel economy when put in those big boats. Their current n/a V8 didn't work out well either or they wouldn't have just scrapped it like that. The other problem with the high revving engines is that there is basically no application for them outside of these low production cars, so cost sharing becomes difficult.

For the record I like high revving n/a engines. But I think they are pointless in M cars because M cars are too heavy now and they've been that way for about 10 years. When I drove the now-outgoing V10 M5 a couple years ago I wasn't impressed because the car was too heavy. Big fat vehicles like that need torque.
Yea, 0-60 in 4.5 seconds(not on launch control) and capable of 200+MPH for being 4000+lbs, and being engineered in 2004 isnt impressive at all
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Old 08-20-2011, 02:12 PM   #23
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Exclamation Regarding an '08 M5 Test...

^
There's more to it than numbers racing, Spin1200.

Quote:
The manual may therefore seem like a more attractive choice, but we discovered that after only 12 minutes of hard driving, it simply couldn't handle the immense amount of power being fed through it. (It's carried over from the 394-hp V8 in the previous M5.) It began to overheat, causing the car's computer to lower the engine's redline to 6,000 rpm. The SMG is still not as smooth as we'd like, but we'd probably recommend it over the manual transmission.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m5/2008/

Last edited by Skylab; 08-20-2011 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 08-20-2011, 02:42 PM   #24
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Wow this thing with some Dinan software would be a monster. 1000ft/lbs of torque all of a sudden does not seem that far away

I want an X5Md!

Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Not sure if serious but... I speculated about this in another thread. Based on what I have seen from regular sequential turbos (Supra, Rx-7, Legacy) and twin charged engines (VW), it could work like this:



Basically the electrically driven compressor (electric turbo, whatever you want to call it) will supply boost at the lower rpm range and a butterfly valve will separate its air from the two actual turbos. The exhaust will spool up the two turbos and a relief valve (kinda like a blowoff valve) will be open while they come up to speed. Then when it's time for the twin turbos to come online, the butterfly valve will open, the relief valve will close, and the electric compressor may be de-clutched.
I like everything but the electic turbo. That thing would be crazy expensive if it failed out of warranty.

It would have to be quite the exhaust manifold, but what if you could have a butterfly valve in the EM that was driven off an actuator similar to a boost activated exhaust cut-out. That way once boost reached a certain pressure it can shut down the smaller turbo and focus exhaust pulses at the two larger ones.
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Old 08-20-2011, 06:31 PM   #25
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I commented before, but if you are going to block off the turbo-compressors with a butterfly valve, and the turbos also have waste gates to prevent over-boost, why bother with the complexity of the intake tract, for a narrow usage profile?

Why not use ALL of a turbine's potential, by gear-reducing it's high RPMS down to crank-shaft RPMs, and compound the turbine output directly with the crankshaft, and into the drivetrain.

Then use an electric (if it is at all viable to have a big enough electric motor to push the volume of air an engine needs), or a CVT-driven centrifugal supercharger.

The turbine can do what the turbine does best, without the low-RPM blockage of the butterfly valve in that system, nor needing a waste gate to bleed off energy, because it doesn't have to conform to the compressor/intake's limitations.

Tune the separate supercharger to be efficient for the intake parameters of the engine, instead of trying to make the intake and exhaust parameters match, when they don't.

I was much more impressed and enthused about BMW's steam thermal reclamation system, to pull wasted thermal energy out of the engine, and the exhaust, and compound a steam-turbine's output with the crankshaft output to the drivetrain.
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