Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 28, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-05-2012, 09:15 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Sporty Luxury Sedan Comparison

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 12:06 AM   #2
Scooby-Doode
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28976
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York
Vehicle:
2007 Twin Turbo
Spoolin'

Default

Yawn! That was an expected result. Icing on the cake being the sticker shock $50,560. GULP!!

The shocker is the Lexus.
Scooby-Doode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 12:37 AM   #3
skywaffles
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82470
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: directions unclear
Vehicle:
dick got stuck
in vacuum cleaner

Default

Laziest thread ever.
skywaffles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 04:22 AM   #4
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default

since you are not lazy, post the thread for us..
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 07:36 AM   #5
Italiano
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2137
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT, USA -what am I doing here?
Vehicle:
a 6spd Manual
Acura

OMGHi2U

8TH PLACE : Buick Regal GS
7TH PLACE: 2012 Infiniti G25
6TH PLACE: 2012 Acura TSX V-6
5TH PLACE: 2011 Lexus IS 250 F-Sport
4TH PLACE : 2012 Audi A4 Quattro
3RD PLACE: Mercedes-Benz C250
2ND PLACE: Volvo S60 T5
1ST PLACE: BMW 328i Sport Line

Italiano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 07:57 AM   #6
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Sporty Luxury Sedan Comparison

Quote:
In the car world, a new BMW 3 Series is a big deal. BMW created the small sport sedan class in 1975 with the original E21 3, and even before that with the iconic 2002. Along with the Mercedes-Benz 190E, the segment really arrived in 1982 with the launch of the much-heralded and often imitated, though never quite duplicated, E30 3 Series. That car proved a near-perfect mixture of engine, transmission, and chassis that the competition and BMW have been trying to mimic for years, with varying degrees of success. Perhaps more important (for BMW), the E30 arrived on the scene at the same time as the yuppie. In the 1980s, nothing screamed "upwardly mobile" quite as loudly as a little BMW parked in your driveway.

But 30 years is a long time, and the automotive scene is very different from when the E30 launched. Back in the early '80s, Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus didn't exist; Audi was selling AWD Volkswagens; Buick was terminally ill (though hardly aware of it); and Volvos were but a chromosome away from farm equipment. Only Mercedes was anywhere near its current market position, technically and in terms of status. There have been three generations of 3 Series (E36, E46, and E90/91/92/93) between the 1980s classic and this new sixth-generation car, dubbed the F30. Each of those previous cars represented varying degrees of goodness, but the competition hasn't exactly been resting on its laurels. In fact, back in August 2007, we loudly (on our cover) declared "The King Is Dead!" and handed the 3 Series' crown off to the Infinti G37.
This new 3 Series, then, shows up saddled with great expectations. So great, in fact, that we assembled seven competitors eager to knock the would-be king off his presumptive throne. While some of the sedans follow the 3 Series' longtime winning recipe (front engine, RWD), several are front drive, and the Audi gets mojo directed to all four wheels. Moreover, since we got our hands on the new 328i, which features a turbocharged four-cylinder engine instead of an I-6 (gasp!), we asked for the lowest-powered version of each competing car. Except for the Acura and Buick. Automatic transmissions for all, too. Our task was twofold: to determine just how good the new BMW 3 Series is and see how the sport sedan competition measures up. Frankly, I'm rather shocked by the results.

8TH PLACE : Buick Regal GS



Wait, the underdog American, armed with the most potent engine, Brembo brakes, and 20-inch wheels came in last place, behind the dated and underpowered Infiniti? Yes, we know -- it just doesn't sound right. We had high hopes for this sportiest of slushbox Buicks, what with the aforementioned performance goodies. But when the votes were cast, eighth was as high as this Gran Sport could reach. For those wondering, if we'd instead included the regular Regal Turbo, Mike Febbo may have shot it.
Like the BMW, the Buick uses a direct-injected 2.0-liter turbo four. Yet unlike the 328i, the Regal pumps out 30 more horsepower and 40 extra lb-ft of torque for -- drumroll, please -- a tops-in-test 270 horses and 295 lb-ft. Unfortunately, that output advantage didn't translate to the track, where the six-speed-auto GS was 0.6 second slower from 0 to 60 (6.2 seconds) and 0.8 second tardier through the quarter mile (15.0 seconds at 93.1 mph) than the dragstrip champ eight-speed 328i. So, it's not quicker, but perhaps it's more fuel-efficient? Nope. Per the EPA's fuel-economy test, the BMW ekes out 24/36 mpg city/highway to the Buick's 20/32. Moreover, our observed fuel economy placed the 328i (16.8 mpg) mid-pack and the Regal dead last (14.6), a full 2.0 mpg behind the A4, the second-thirstiest vehicle.
Speaking of the all-wheel-drive Audi, it actually weighs less than the 3748-pound Buick, the -- yep -- heaviest of the bunch. What's up with the corpulence? We're not entirely sure, but we surmise some of it comes from the Regal's polished dubs and Pirelli PZero tires, a $700 option that did very little to dampen the often harsh ride. That said, the wheel/tire package, along with the GS' Brembos and front HiPer strut/rear multilink suspension, did deliver impressive 60-0 braking (108 feet), lateral acceleration (0.89 g), and figure-eight (26.1 seconds at 0.67 g) numbers. Still, over our curvy test loop, we were unimpressed with the Regal's nervous handling dynamics, frustrating transmission ("Shift Denied!"), and noticeable turbo lag.

At $38,565 ($35,720 base), the Regal GS resides in the economical half of the group, yet includes navigation ($1145), power sunroof ($1000), leather interior, satellite radio, Bluetooth, pushbutton start, and dual-zone auto A/C. The lack of a backup camera, especially given the high rear shelf, seems an oversight. And please, please, lose the gaudy chrome inserts in the steering wheel and around the gearshift. As the most powerful entry -- not to mention one of the newest -- the Regal needed to be more than an apparent strong value with flash. It needed to live up to its brawny specs and bulldog looks. As its finish illustrates, it didn't.

6TH PLACE: 2012 Acura TSX V-6

Pseudo-European Car Offends None
By: Benson Kong
No offense -- though I'm sure somebody out there will take issue -- but this comparison felt the most right to me during one particular driving loop where it was just the European contenders briskly hustling through the twists and turns. The Japanese and American half of the pack had been separated by a red light. And then some. Yes, it's cliche, but it takes some big talent to be taken seriously in the sport sedan realm.
If the Acura TSX -- known to the cognoscenti in these parts as a derivation of the European-spec Honda Accord -- can take one triumph to heart, it's that no editor stepped out shaking his head, saying, "It's just awful" or "It doesn't belong here." (See eighth place.) In fact, the TSX proved a cautionary tale in automotive what-ifs. What if its transmission had more than five speeds? What if it had better tires and brakes? What if its ride quality were better sorted? To elaborate, let's open our notebooks. "Still has a few drops of that old Honda magic, but not nearly enough," remarked Lieberman. "Engine zings and it basically feels like a big Honda Fit, which isn't bad, but it's definitely let down a bit by the transmission," wrote Febbo. "If the TSX had the BMW's brakes and the Benz's tires, it would've easily been a top-four car. If..." postulated Kiino.
No doubt the most impressive naturally aspirated engine of the bunch, the TSX's aurally pleasurable 3.5-liter V-6 won over most of us. Its exhaust note was described as "deep and bellowing" by Nishimoto. With a comparison-topping 280 horsepower paired with 235mm-wide rubber, the front-drive TSX was third-quickest from 0-60 mph and in the quarter mile (6.0 seconds and 14.5 seconds, respectively), but last in maximum lateral g (0.82) and on the figure eight (0.3 second off the Volvo S60 T5, the next closest). Quick steering helps generate aggressive turn-in, but drivers were then left with a chassis worthy of considerably more grip.

When the going was easy, the sporty but busy ride and plentiful road and wind noise wore us down. The cluttered center stack and low-resolution navigation screen also drew ire, though the interior material selection and color coordination is solid. The TSX is well-equipped, but after a while we started to question the $39,335 as-tested price. It's serious coinage any way you cut it, and the gap in dynamics from sixth to first is tremendous. Of course, it's easy for us to nitpick what needs fixing -- we're not the ones spending our money on product development. But for the same purchase price, there definitely are five better sport sedans from which to choose.


5TH PLACE: 2011 Lexus IS 250 F-Sport

Old? Who You Calling Old?
By: Rory Jurnecka
The Lexus IS 250 was the very definition of an underdog when it knocked on the door of our little entry-level luxury-car party. Having made its production debut at the 2005 (think White Sox winning the World Series) New York auto show, the second-generation IS can't help but look, feel, and seem a little dated. Its 204 hp and 185 lb-ft is light for a modern small-displacement turbocharged four-cylinder motor, let alone the 2.5-liter V-6 the IS 250 has stashed under its hood. The six-speed automatic used to be state-of-the-art with its sport mode and paddle shifters, but today half the cars in this comparison have seven- and eight-speed gearboxes. So where does that leave a nearly 7-year-old sport sedan?
Surprisingly, solidly mid-pack is the answer. Truth is, especially compared with the older-by-a-year Infiniti G, the Lexus still feels like it's a viable purchase. Our impressions were no doubt bolstered by our tester's optional F-Sport package. With its unique sport seats, leather-covered steering wheel, firmer suspension, 18-inch wheels, and grippy Bridgestones, the IS seemed to punch above its weight in the smiles-per-mile category. "Lexus has the bones of a good sport sedan here," said Evans. "The chassis is solid and composed, the handling is good, and it grips well."

We were also impressed with its style. The interior is trimmed out nicely, with the comfy Alcantara-covered, big-bolstered seats holding occupants in place on the twistier stretch of our drive loop. With the exception of the somewhat plasticky, dated center stack, the majority of the interior "still feels luxurious and upscale," to quote Kiino. The exterior design has fared equally well over time, due in part to a mid-cycle refresh a couple years back, and still manages to be eye-catching (especially in F-Sport trim). Adds Lieberman, "Compared with that new squished-spindle Lexus snout, this thing is gorgeous."
Complaints? We had a few, and most were to do with the most outdated part of the car: the powertrain. While the V-6 revs out smoothly enough, it is underpowered amongst its competitive set. We found ourselves wishing for at least another 50 lb-ft of torque to help push the relatively light IS along. We also found the shift paddles somewhat less responsive than those in most of the competition. Rear seat room wasn't impressive, and the $41,214 as-tested price seemed a bit steep, considering the car's age. That said, we know there's a new IS in the works. If it builds on the lessons Lexus should have learned from this iteration, we can't wait to drive it.

4TH PLACE : 2012 Audi A4 Quattro

The Safe Bet
By: Mike Febbo
Quattro -- Audi's brand name for all-wheel drive -- has defined the Ingolstadt-based manufacturer's identity for the last 30 years. Some may question the value of sending power to all four wheels on such relatively low-horsepower vehicles, but in the twistiest sections of our test loop, the difference immediately became apparent. The A4, with its wide powerband from the direct-injection 2.0-liter turbo I-4, shot from corner to corner with grip the other cars couldn't hope to achieve. Well, save for one from Bavaria.
The unanimous complaint among the judges was Audi's beige/gray interior. Even the biggest four-ring fans in our group (hi, Mom!) remarked that this color should never be allowed to leave the factory. While design and ergonomics were praised, wrapping everything in that cheap-looking khaki faux leather makes it look too much like a Frankfurt taxi. The steering wheel seemed to suffer the most from the cheap material, and its function was a point of contention. While most of the manufacturers in this comparison augment steering feel by piping powertrain vibration into the steering system (alarmingly so in the case of the Mercedes), Audi isolates the NVH and lets the front tires do all the talking. Feelings on steering feel were split right down the middle, with some celebrating the sharp responses and others proclaiming the car devoid of soul. However you look at it, the Audi was the second-heaviest car in the comparison at 3710 pounds and still managed to tie the 3480-pound BMW for first place around the figure eight. Again, grip.


In acceleration runs, the Audi again put in a strong second-place showing behind the BMW, coming in just two-tenths of a second behind it to 60 mph (5.8 seconds) and in the quarter mile. Clearly, the sixth-most-powerful car in the field gets the most out of its 211 horsepower. On the street, the Audi felt mid-pack in accelerative oomph, maybe because of the extra weight from the brand-defining AWD hardware, though the new and lightened A6 shows that Audi is capable of making an AWD car that's lighter than the 2WD competition. Also, what's up with the awful wind noise?

The A4 is scheduled for an update in 2013 with new exterior styling details and a rash of interior changes including new materials, steering wheel, and different color offerings. If buyers must have a 2012, spend $1250 on the prestige trim level to get upgraded leather and more supportive seats, 19-inch wheels with wider tires, a firmer suspension, and more aggressive front and rear fascias. Though that would, of course, bump the second-highest as-tested price even higher. The A4 is an aging car but still a good choice, especially for buyers who require all-weather performance.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1oLCtLH5d


54321
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 08:02 AM   #7
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default

Quote:
3RD PLACE: Mercedes-Benz C250

A Very Good Car -- Just Not Great
By: Scott Evans
Well, this is awkward. The mighty Mercedes-Benz finishes third, behind a Volvo? How'd that happen? Well, let me tell you.

Here are the problems we had with our Sport-packaged C250. First and foremost, these seats do not belong in anything associated with the word "Sport." The bottoms are hard, and as flat as the plains east of Denver, while the seatbacks offer just enough side bolstering to remind you how sporty they aren't. Nearly as bad is the boost lag, with the little 1.8-liter turbo-four wholly unequipped to handle the Benz's weight until boost comes in around 3000 rpm. The transmission, meanwhile, is slow to react and doesn't keep the engine on boost even in Sport mode, and the side-to-side manual shifting won no fans. The steering was too light and lacking in feedback, and the design inside and out is conservative bordering on boring.
So that's why the Mercedes is in third. But why is it ahead of the Audi, Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, and Buick? Because it drives better than any of them. Once the turbo-four is boiling, the C250 feels much quicker than its 6.9-second 0-60-mph time suggests. The chassis is rock solid and nigh unflappable. It's a bit disconcerting when the body rolls over hard on turn-in, even though you know in the back of your mind it's going to settle in on the suspension and bite hard at the road. Once it does, the Benz is neutrally balanced, hard to upset, and stuck tight to the asphalt. Better transitions and better seats would help immensely.
The Mercedes also made a strong case for itself in value. Say what?! Yup, at $41,570, our lightly optioned tester landed mid-pack in pricing while still offering such niceties as satellite radio and navigation. Of course, start spec'ing it up like the BMW and you can easily push this car into $50,000 territory. As it stood, though, the Mercedes offered one of the best driving experiences at a reasonable price. It was even the fuel economy winner at 17.7 mpg observed. By the end of our test, everyone liked the C250, but no one loved it. It's a competent handler, a solid ride, a real luxury car, and it has pedigree. Still, there were two other cars that did it at least a little better. Besides, Mercedes is hard at work on a new C-Class, and you can bet a third-place finish simply won't be tolerated.

2ND PLACE: Volvo S60 T5

Swedish Cinderella
By: Nate Martinez
The Mayan prophecy didn't arrive early. Illicit drugs were not consumed. A lofty amount of Chinese yuan hasn't been left in our collective (nonexistent) coffer. Ladies and gents: We are still as surprised as you are at this very moment. We've known for a long time just how very good the turbo I-6, AWD S60 is, but this was our first crack at the FWD, transverse inline-five, and, well, we're surprised.
The Volvo S60 T5 had a lot of things going for it that aren't necessarily related to safety. First, there is that stunning coupelike Swedish body with clean, composed, and well-executed accents. The physique can hardly be called svelte, but it is well-proportioned and ideally sorted for five-passenger hauling. More important, it's different. Refreshingly so. Our particular tester's looks benefited from optional bright silver sport front and rear bumpers. Over the multi-day test the design received nary a complaint.
Much like its metal panels, the cabin's no-nonsense black/silver/tan innards were penned with simplicity and attractiveness in mind. Yet, as most of us discovered, the simple space proved extremely comfortable and nearly concert-hall quiet, not to mention highly usable with ample storage, cupholders galore, and a straightforward multimedia system. A few labeled the plain cockpit too "stripped" and "not premium enough," but in the end, it did what it set out to do -- and did it well. We especially took a liking to the front seats, which are supple enough for long highway hauls and supportive enough for aggressive runs on desolate zigzag paths. Not often do our posteriors sit in such magnificent thrones in an entry-level model. The fact that they were fabric instead of real or fake cowhide was also appreciated.\



Those aforesaid aggressive runs revealed a solid 3500-pound platform that liked to dance. It wasn't the quickest on our track with its relatively skinny 215/50R17 Michelin Primacy rubber (the thinnest of the bunch), nor did it carve canyons with a surgical skill of a certain Bavarian. In all honesty, the nose-heavy car that some called "a tank" and "a heifer" plowed at its limits on tight, complicated corners. But it was controllable, and, most important, extremely fun. Granted, long sweepers were where this Volvo truly shone. The smooth, peppy 2.5-liter five-cylinder and its six-speed automatic doled out consistent power and thrills whatever the situation, and was one of the most fuel efficient at 17.5 mpg observed.


The S60 won our hearts with its ability to take the high-stress runs we dealt it in its competent, confident stride. When it comes time to go home, it coddles you. It sips fuel penuriously. And it looks damn sexy. For all this, Volvo charges just over $35 large. Yup, this is one special Swede.


1ST PLACE: BMW 328i Sport Line

That's First Place With a Competition-Killing Bullet
By: Jonny Lieberman
The Internet has fundamentally changed the way we write about cars. Why's that? Your thoughtful, loving comments, of course! Unlike in the old days where my predecessors would cherry-pick only the best, friendliest letters to the editors (and spellcheck 'em), today whatever you have to say becomes permanently affixed to the article in question, online. And lest you feel like you're writing to each other, be assured, we read your comments. I mention this because I want to talk about the big albatross hanging around the new 328i's neck right up front: price. This car rings the bell to the tune of $50,560, by far the highest as-tested price of the competition. Shock! Horror! You all will cancel your subscriptions en masse, of course the most expensive car won, because we're all idiots, etc.
Yes, yes, yes. We know. However, unlike the other seven competitors, this particular car was driven away from the U.S. 3 Series launch BMW held in San Francisco where the cars were (of course) trimmed out with all the fixings. The point I want to make is that, using BMW's online configurator, you can spec out a mechanically identical 328i Sport Line for $41,095 that would have beat up on and choked out the competition just like the one in our test did. Questions?

As mentioned, we sat around screaming at each other for over an hour trying to determine if the Buick was in fact a lamer duck than the Infiniti. We spent all of three minutes declaring the BMW best in test and best in class. This is not just a win for the 328i; it's a massacre. A slaughter. Doomsday. Armageddon. I say this with a straight face: There is no competition. Not only was the BMW's first-place finish never in question, but I can't remember a comparison test with such lopsided results. Honestly, we had a hard time finding bad things to say. Aside from the as-tested price (see above!), the worst anyone could come up with is that the new 2.0-liter twin-scroll I-4 sounds like a diesel. But, as Evans logs, "That's hardly a complaint," and you only hear the clatter-clatter-clatter at idle. Let's call it the sound of efficiency. As for the good stuff, well, our notebooks were boiling over.
Here's a sampling. Kiino: "Does everything well. The epitome of a luxury sport sedan." Evans: "What a car. There really isn't anything this car does wrong." Jurnecka: "Last week I was telling a buddy (and huge BMW fan) that there isn't a single new BMW I'd even consider buying these days. I was wrong. I'd buy this car." Febbo: "Maybe the most impressive thing about the BMW is that there is no superfluous stuff. They just built a really solid car." Martinez: "Seriously, where's the M badge?" Kong: "BMW wants to make my life difficult with a shocking product that is as good as it's been hyped." Nishimoto: "BMW does what it does best with this new 328, and thus the bar is raised yet again." And from me, "They picked the appellation F30 for a reason. Like the E30, the new 328i is the ideal blend of engine, transmission, and chassis." Seriously, folks, I'm awed.

***********

You want specifics? The BMW was the fastest car here (0-60 mph in 5.6 seconds and through the quarter in 14.2 at 97.8 mph), beating even the AWD Audi. The 328i rode the best, had the best steering and transmission, is the only car here with start/stop technology, gets a class-leading 36 mpg highway, has thebest laid-out interior, is the most comfortable, has an unbelievable nav screen, and, to top it all off, has the biggest back seat.


Want more? Of course you do. Moving from Comfort mode into Sport produced real, actual changes in the vehicle's behavior, transforming it from a very relaxed cruiser to a sharp-edged canyon carver. And because of the $900 Adaptive M Suspension option (part of the $2500 Sport Line package) there's still Sport+ to further stiffen the suspension, increase throttle response, and get the eight-speed auto to bang home shifts like a dual-clutch. There's also an Eco Pro mode that turns down the climate control and throttle response to achieve more efficiency. It even logs and shows you how many extra miles you're eking out. Long story short, the 328i is four cars in one. Let's make that four excellent cars in one. Ultimately -- and this cuts right through the heart of the sport sedan segment -- the BMW was without question the most fun to drive.

Like Rory, I'm not a fan of modern BMWs. Not only do I feel the automaker has lost the "Ultimate Driving Machine" plot, but I think the 5 Series Gran Turismo is the German Aztek. But since I first took a spin last week, I haven't stopped thinking about the 328i. "Maybe," I tell myself before looking at my credit card statements. "Maybe I could swing some sort of sweetheart lease?" I mention this to stamp out all claims of any sort of BMW bias you might think Motor Trend has. Not only did I already mention that five years ago we declared the Infiniti G superior to the 3 Series, but the last comparison test I wrote involving a BMW had the Bavarian finishing dead last. True, the 740i did win our Entry-Level Full-Size Luxury Sedan comparo (March 2011), but here's what Frank Markus had to say about that victor: "By the end of our deliberations, the BMW found itself backing into the winner's circle by doing everything 80-90 percent right without doing anything terribly wrong, all at a moderate price." Talk about damning with faint praise!
In full, glaring, retina-searing contrast, this BMW wins this competition because it does everything better than the rest. For now, all the competition can do is head back to their drawing boards. Like I said up front, I'm shocked.

54321
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 08:08 AM   #8
Integra96
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 64196
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
2010 Family Sedan

Default

No shock the Bimmer is an impressive machine.

The new S60s look fantastic, though. Too bad they aren't available with manuals.
Integra96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 02:45 PM   #9
Brahmzy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3293
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: CO
Vehicle:
'14 FXT-T
'15 WRX? '15 STI?

Default

That new turbo-4 & chassis is a sweet combo. Impressed me when I drove one. Gladly say goodbye to those N/A I6's.
Brahmzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 03:05 PM   #10
LoveMyCoupe
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 257123
Join Date: Sep 2010
Default

They messed with the comparison.
Spent a couple of paragraphs explaining that you could order a stripper BMW with the same performance as the 50K model they used, them proceeded to compare it to cars that legitimately can be considered "luxury" sedans for 40K.

If they had actually been interested in doing an apples to apples comparison they should have set a price tag and gotten various models that actually sell for that price range with all the luxury options.
LoveMyCoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 03:28 PM   #11
bal00
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54772
Join Date: Feb 2004
Default

You can get a nicely equipped 328i for 42-44k, unless you need 3 different reversing aids, heated rear seats and lane departure warning.
bal00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 04:40 PM   #12
Eyeflyistheeye
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69694
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: My personal hell
Vehicle:
2014 EuroPinto 5MT

Default

If the Legacy didn't become a boat, I wonder how a 2.5GT Spec.B would have held up in the comparison.
Eyeflyistheeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 05:07 PM   #13
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
That new turbo-4 & chassis is a sweet combo. Impressed me when I drove one. Gladly say goodbye to those N/A I6's.
I6s and H6s are such smooth running, inherently torquey engines, though, and NA throttle response is purer than waiting for a turbo to spool, and less to potentially fail. BMWs are not known for their affordability to maintain, and the more complex they get, the more they prove that.

I don't know that I could consider owning any BMW outside of warranty, and without a repair insurance rider if something were to break down... like a high pressure fuel pump, for instance.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 08:25 PM   #14
Integra96
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 64196
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
2010 Family Sedan

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
If the Legacy didn't become a boat, I wonder how a 2.5GT Spec.B would have held up in the comparison.
I'm guessing it wouldn't have fared well. It was quick and had grip but had low refinement and fairly crude handling compared to Audi, BMW, MB, and Volvo. It was still a nice car, though.
Integra96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 08:54 PM   #15
4wdwrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72042
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Sunshine
Vehicle:
2002 WRX impreza
WRB "Blue Mammoth"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
I6s and H6s are such smooth running, inherently torquey engines, though, and NA throttle response is purer than waiting for a turbo to spool, and less to potentially fail. BMWs are not known for their affordability to maintain, and the more complex they get, the more they prove that.
Those are excuses. That is why the engineers at BMW will prove you wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
I don't know that I could consider owning any BMW outside of warranty, and without a repair insurance rider if something were to break down... like a high pressure fuel pump, for instance.
That is why BMW is what it is. Premium brand for premium buyers. And why I don't drive one (well not yet anyways).
4wdwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 01:46 PM   #16
lawn boy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16345
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: WashPA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX- Sold
E60 BMW 545i

Default

as a BMW owner and fanatic, i wouldn't own a modern version outside warranty. the durability and reliabilityof the (non turbo) E90's and E46 are now a thing of the past, all in the name of awe-inspiring technology. My non turbo V8 5 series has been dead reliable, however


if i didnt drive 40 miles each way to work, i'd lease a new 3 series.
lawn boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 06:14 PM   #17
BryanH
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 993
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: nova
Default

I seriously considered buying a BMW....but I have have already had the pleasure of knowing ALL of the service staff of a dealership on a first name basis with a previous car. I am not anxious to repeat that. So I picked up the s60.
BryanH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 10:07 PM   #18
GooseMan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2462
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles/Montreal
Vehicle:
2012 Volvo S60 T5
2005 Triumph Sprint ST

Default

Yay for Volvo!

<----

surprised they didnt go for a T6, since it would have been priced more similarly than the base T5
GooseMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 01:31 PM   #19
LoveMyCoupe
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 257123
Join Date: Sep 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
I don't know that I could consider owning any BMW outside of warranty, and without a repair insurance rider if something were to break down... like a high pressure fuel pump, for instance.
Interesting thing to say.

My best friend is a service manager at a dealership that has several brands under their umbrella, one of which is BMW.
He steered me away from buying an M3 a couple of years ago for that very reason, even mentioning the high pressure fuel pump specifically.

Upon his recommendation I bought an Infiniti coupe instead and it has been trouble free.

In the back of my mind I keep wondering how things would have gone if I had gone against his advice and bought the M3 instead.
LoveMyCoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 01:42 PM   #20
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

The HPFP isn't a huge deal. They're warrantied for a long time and give you plenty of warning that they're going out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMyCoupe View Post
If they had actually been interested in doing an apples to apples comparison they should have set a price tag and gotten various models that actually sell for that price range with all the luxury options.
Unfortunately, that's now how the press gets vehicles. They can make specific requests for equipment when they contact the manufacturer to receive a press vehicle.. but usually they get whatever is available. It's not as if the manufacturers can just pull a new car off the lot and let a magazine test it because it has the equipment they want.
Calamity Jesus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 02:21 PM   #21
bal00
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54772
Join Date: Feb 2004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMyCoupe View Post
My best friend is a service manager at a dealership that has several brands under their umbrella, one of which is BMW.
He steered me away from buying an M3 a couple of years ago for that very reason, even mentioning the high pressure fuel pump specifically.
...which an M3 doesn't have.
bal00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 02:41 PM   #22
REX8
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 24038
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Godspeed Cale...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bal00 View Post
...which an M3 doesn't have.
Yeah, not sure what his friend was talking about.


More importantly, they have a pump out now that doesn't fail. Seems like it will forever be someone's excuse not to by the turbo'd six models.
REX8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 10:22 PM   #23
Godmal
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4934
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: LITH, IL
Vehicle:
2007 White STI LTD
Grey Mazda 5

Default

Modern bmws are no different than they were in the '90's and 2000's, they have needs. You get to know your service dept, but if you go to a good dealer, they take care of you. If you own one outside if any warranty, you had better LOVE that car.
Godmal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 04:28 PM   #24
BryanH
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 993
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: nova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godmal
Modern bmws are no different than they were in the '90's and 2000's, they have needs. You get to know your service dept, but if you go to a good dealer, they take care of you. If you own one outside if any warranty, you had better LOVE that car.
This is really not a ringing endorsement. The BMW of the 90's could be an electrical nightmare. I had an m3. The motor/tranny was sound....everything else was constantly giving me grief.
BryanH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 05:02 PM   #25
Len
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 39937
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Vehicle:
2011 328i 6MT
LMB

Default

On a slightly different note, I just noticed that this comparison is for "sporty luxury" sedans.

I used to consider BMWs "premium sport" sedans, as they didn't have enough amenities to be called "luxury", but they did still have that "premium" feel to their controls and material. And they sure were sport sedans.

Starting with the "F" designated models, however, I think "sporty luxury" is becoming a much more fitting description of BMWs. The new 5 series certainly fits this bill, while the new 3 series to a somewhat lesser extent. But I feel that the direction is pretty clear.
Len is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lexus Announces Pricing on 2007 LS 460 & LS 460 L Full-Size Luxury Sedans NYCshopper Non-Subaru News & Rumors 25 10-11-2006 11:16 AM
Options for 50k-100k performance luxury sedan... sportz135 Off-Topic 49 03-19-2006 11:03 PM
Road and Track: Spec-B vs. Other AWD midsize luxury sedans... Kostamojen News & Rumors 5 01-30-2006 02:40 PM
Large Luxury Sedan/ New Upmarket Strategy Dirt Man News & Rumors 14 06-29-2004 05:47 AM
Subaru considers luxury sedan only1agam News & Rumors 3 06-28-2004 12:42 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.