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Old 04-07-2001, 11:19 AM   #1
Billy
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Question WRC rally cars - Are they all AWD?

Quid pro quo, yes or no?

Seat, Peugeot, Citroen... are they AWD's?
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Old 04-07-2001, 11:27 AM   #2
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DOH!
i was wrong again

[This message has been edited by kartboy (edited April 07, 2001).]
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Old 04-07-2001, 11:30 AM   #3
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I thought the pug 206 was AWD.
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Old 04-07-2001, 11:32 AM   #4
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the Peugeot 206 and Seat Cordoba WRC's are AWD, Citroen is FWD; but not all cars are AWD
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Old 04-07-2001, 01:20 PM   #5
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There have been quite a mix of cars AWD & FWD in the past few years. Peugeot used to be FWD with the 206, now they've converted to AWD under the WRC spec. There are also rally versions of the 106 and the 306, both of which are FWD. Many of the manufacturers have FWD cars, I know the class used to be called Formula 2 but I don't know if it's still classed this way.

Citroen has rally versions of both the Xsara and the Saxo, both of which are FWD, but the made an AWD version of one of them, I can't remember which. Renault has both FWD and AWD rally versions of the Megane.

[This message has been edited by Porter (edited April 07, 2001).]
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Old 04-07-2001, 02:42 PM   #6
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I think that the new Citroen is AWD in WRC spec - the older veraion was FWD - I do know that all the other WRC cars are AWD.
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Old 04-07-2001, 02:52 PM   #7
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you guys are all wrong!!!!!

All the WRC cars run AWD center locking or LSD all the time
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Old 04-07-2001, 07:46 PM   #8
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technically a WRC class car can be extensively modified from the base model to the point where not a lot of parts from the base model need to be used in the WRC class car. That is what defines the current Impreza WRC, Peugot 306 WRC, Toyota Corolla WRC and some of the others. This is different than the Group A cars which are race prepped and tuned up but otherwise have detuned road-ready homologation special versions of the car like the Mitsubishi Lancers, which seem to be doing pretty damn well against the dedicated rally class cars.

Here's a more formal definiton of a WRC class rally car:
http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/Cars_Background4.html

Ed
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Old 04-07-2001, 09:34 PM   #9
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What I mean is, all the teams currently competing in the FIA World Rally Championship (with aspirations toward driver's or manufacturer's titles) are running AWD drivetrains. Pug, Prodrive, Ford, Skoda, Mitsu, privateers, etc. If you're going to be competive on all rounds, from Safari to Sweden - you have to run AWD, right? I know that the Citroens dominated the past two years on tarmac, b/c of power/weight, but You can't change your layout within the season, right? I couldn't see FWD being an advantage, all things being equal. (weight, power) Long story short - to be competitive, you have to drive all wheels.
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Old 04-07-2001, 11:41 PM   #10
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FIA Rules for World Rally Car (WRC) spec, indicate that the car MUST have AWD, MUST be no more or less then 2.0L of displacment, MUST be under 300 BHP, MUST be turbo charged, MUST run a restrictor plate, and MUST run a 6 speed gear box.

One of the purposes of the WRC class was to allow manufactures that dont manufacture AWD cars to build and run a car at the top level of world rallying. For instance, the Skoda Felecia, Citroen Xsara, Peugeot 206, Ford Focus, Seat Cordoba, and Toyota Corolla, are all FWD in their street trim, and a couple fo them are equipped with 1600 cc engines. the WRC class allows the cars to upgrade their spec to the above mentioned ones.

Those rules are set up so that all WR cars are set up to the same spec to be equally competitive.

Differentials are free. For instance Pugeot, Citroen, and Ford are all running front, rear, and center electronic tripple plate differentials.

The other class, is Groupe-A, the Tommi Makinens EVO-6.5 is the last of this calss. Groupe-A is a homologated street car, that is allowed to have changes made to suspension geometry, width, trave. Changes to the engine, as long as it does not exceed 300 BHP. The catch with Groupe-A is that the car must be built around the stock chassis, where as in a WR car, the frame is a purpose built tublar chassis, built around the demensions of the homologated street car, in acordance with FIA homologation rules.
However, it should be noted that Tommi Makinen's current Groupe-A car, is not a true Groupe-A spec. Mitsubishi has had the other competeing WRC teams vote to allow changes to the car. Such as the inclusion of the electronic center diff, that is borrowed from teh EVO-VII, the inproved rear suspension, again borrowed from the upcoming EVO-VII, and a couple of tweaks in engine management, and chassis weight. So its not really worthy of being called a Groupe-A car. If anything a bastard WR car, would be more fitting. Former cars in the Groupe-A class where the Toyota Celica ST-165, 185, 205, Ford Escort Cosworth, Lancia Delta Integrale, obviously the Mitsubishi EVO series, and before pushing for the WR car class, even Subaru ran a Geoupe-A car.

Groupe-N, is basically a showroom production class. Buy a car, put a roll cage in it, and your ready to go. Of course there are other changes that can be done to the car beyond that. But for the msot part, its all stock.

Then next catagory is F2. Which contained the ever powerful "kit-car" class. F2 cars are FF configuration cars, all N/A or fuel injected. The kit-cars where monsters. With 7 speed gear boxes, and un restriced 2.2L engines, that could easilly rev far beyond 10,000 RPM. THe msot famous of the kit-cars was the Citroen Xsara F2 kit-car. That caused quite an uproar with teams, and drivers in 99, as it bested even the WR cars, and took two overall victories on tarmac. Other notable F2 cars where the Renault Maxi Megane, and the Pugeot 306 Maxi. Unfortunatly, after 99's fiasco, the FIA put alot of restrictions on the kit car class, and all but killed it, which is one of the reasons why Citroen moved into the WR car format. There are severl other F2 classes including the new Super 1600 series, which we've all heard pleanty about.

Hope that helps to clear it up. As far as i know, Group-A, Group-N, must all have AWD to compete.

For more information read this page... http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/Cars_Background1.html
This gives a fairly detailed description of what the various class's have, and what the rules and regulations are.

Hope ive helped clear up some confusion.
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Old 04-08-2001, 07:07 PM   #11
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This is great information! You guys rock!
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Old 04-08-2001, 09:42 PM   #12
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Under FIA rules, all cars in the same groups are equal in everything, and there are limits...All Official Group A WRC cars are AWD, 2.0L Turbo, minimun of 1230kg, 300hp, 34mm restrictor on their turbos, all 6-spd...There are also the KIT cars, which are owner-modified or racing/private company sponsored...So basically, all cars on the same group have the same limitations...
Later all,
Tony.
P.S.: Porter, you are wrong about the name. It can mean 2 things:
1. World Rally Car (WRC Impreza)
2. World Rally Championship (the event itself)


[This message has been edited by T-WReX 2.5RS (edited April 08, 2001).]
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Old 04-08-2001, 11:19 PM   #13
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They are all the same withen the groupe, but are all ranked differntly in their own respective class.

A8 - Groupe-A and WR Car
A7 - F2 kit-cars 2.0L+, and 2WD turbo cars, like the Ford Sierra Cosworth, for example with is FR, 2.0L turbo.
N4 - Contains Groupe-N cars, somtimes depending on event rules, N4 is classified as A7
A6 - The new Super 1600 series, production F2 cars, and other smaller powered cars under 2.0L
A5 - This is the class for smaller then 1.6L cars. Like the little Nissan Micra, Mini Cooper, BMW 2002, etc. Very rare that you see these cars running in a WRC event. But they are very common in the BRC where the main class is the A7 kit-car.
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Old 04-09-2001, 12:29 AM   #14
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Excellent explanation.

Let's reiterate for those who didn't read between the lines...

There is a huge difference between "WRC spec" and "a car that runs in the WRC". The new specification for "WRC" cars is just one of several classes of vehicle that participate in World Rally Championship events. This specification is a new development and I feel it was a mistake to call it "WRC" since that is also the name of the rally series itself and thus quite misleading to the uninitiated. There are vehicles with many different kinds of drivetrains participating in the rallies that make up the World Rally Championship.

-Porter
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Old 04-09-2001, 12:29 AM   #15
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T-WReX -

You're absolutely right. I should have clarified. "WRC" is not "WRC", except when it's "WRC". But sometimes on alternate Thursdays, they change the name to "WRC". Could it be any simpler?

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Old 04-09-2001, 03:51 AM   #16
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Porter - but don't forget the full moon Thursdays...that's when "WRC" is actually "double U arrr See"

-myk
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Old 04-09-2001, 01:35 PM   #17
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I believe that the WRC chassis are all based on the road cars... that is why the Impreza kicks so much butt. However the FIa regs allow extensive mods to the chassis for the WRC class. as well as adding AWD and such. If you look under the hood of the Impreza or Mitsu. you don't see a bunch of tubular supports... you see a base chassis that has been stiffined by seam welding or addin support (rollcages) If I'm incorrect, someone tell me(modem down and can't verify through FIA regs. site)
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Old 04-09-2001, 04:03 PM   #18
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The WR Car chassis are bassed and built around the road chassis. However its nothing but the chassis shell. The shell of the body has all teh suspension, and interior removed from it, and then the rollcage is built with allt eh suspension mounts, and such built into it. So the car supported by the roll cage, with the chassis of the car literally hanging on it. Witht he chassis tied intot he roll cage, they can easily use some stock mounting points for things like roll bars, etc. But its by far not a stock chassis. The suspension geometry is vastly differnt fromteh road car. Im fact the suspension type is about all that is really carried over. I.e. if you have MacPherson struts itn eh front, the WR Car must maintan MacPherson in the front. Or Multilink in the rear, etc. And that suspension must be bassed around the stock suspension placement, and is allowed to be moved i beleive 3cm from its stock mounting point on the car. However those mounting points get somewhat blurred, as the overall demensions of the car change. For instance, the Toyota Corolla was shorter in wheele base then its road version, and the Peugeot 206 is actually longer then its road going version (which should have excluded it from homologation under FIA rules, but i guess it pays to be French, eh?). So while they are "bassed" off of the stock chassis, they certaintly are no where near the stock chassis.

Its like saying the Oreca vipers, or any other FIA-GT or AJGT car, is like the road car. The Group-A cars come close, becuase the chassis has to be a load bearing part of the car. But in a WRC car, its preaty much just a shell.
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Old 04-10-2001, 11:12 AM   #19
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O K Buck O !!!(sarcastically)
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