Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday July 12, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2011, 06:13 PM   #26
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

I saw a nice blue elise the other day, again. fantastic car being cruised at walking speed around a parking lot several times. I almost felt sorry for the car being under-utilized.

That is the sort of car where the Rotary could shine.

The same near-zero-concern for practicality, all-in for compactness and engineering purposefulness is apparent in the Elise, as well as rotary engines as performance engines.

Nobody buys an elise with the primary concern being stop-and-go traffic while sitting in a barcalounger.

The rotary engine hates that stuff, and isn't good at it. It is good at putting out screaming amounts of high-RPM power, from a compact little package that is no more complicated or bigger than it necessarily needs to be, and screw practicality concerns.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 08-23-2011 at 06:22 PM.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 07:42 PM   #27
aschen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30733
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston texas
Vehicle:
2007 tiny car
striped

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
The rotary engine hates that stuff, and isn't good at it. It is good at putting out screaming amounts of high-RPM power, from a compact little package that is no more complicated or bigger than it necessarily needs to be, and screw practicality concerns.
yet it is packaged in a nifty 2+2.5 4 door coupe. You could almost make a case for the engine in something closer to an elise or even a miata.

RX 8 engineers: lets make a relatively practical sports car with some concessions for civility, then lets throw out all the practicallity by making it get 12 mpg and be wierd about starting and what not. If those same engineers worked at honda the s2000 would be diesel
aschen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 07:45 PM   #28
aschen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30733
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston texas
Vehicle:
2007 tiny car
striped

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dclin View Post
But to my point, putting a V8 in an Elise would likely make .
The rest of this sentence should just be the word awsome repeated 23 times


Crap now I am day-dreaming about an ls3 RX8
aschen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 08:31 PM   #29
lil'redwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10854
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Hunt Valley, MD.
Vehicle:
2002 Sedan V8 ej207
Dom 3 XT-R, 400WHP

Default

didn't Hennesey do that?
lil'redwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 08:44 PM   #30
aschen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30733
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston texas
Vehicle:
2007 tiny car
striped

Default

Kinda, google venom. They threw in twin turbos for good measure, but not all that much lotus left of the car.

Bugatti price tag too
aschen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 09:55 PM   #31
shikataganai
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
2007 Land Cruiser
2013 LEAF

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen View Post
RX 8 engineers: lets make a relatively practical sports car with some concessions for civility, then lets throw out all the practicallity by making it get 12 mpg and be wierd about starting and what not. If those same engineers worked at honda the s2000 would be diesel
Hyperbole through and through. I saw 17-21 mpg regularly in my RX-8. I did see something like 9 mpg on a trackday but that was far from the norm.

That said, I did stall it after moving it when it was cold despite following the recommended procedure, and having the car suddenly out like that and requiring a tow as well as a (free to me) starter, battery, plugs, and ECU remap was a behavior that was hard to swallow.
shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 10:10 PM   #32
aschen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30733
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston texas
Vehicle:
2007 tiny car
striped

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
Hyperbole through and through. I saw 17-21 mpg regularly in my RX-8. I did see something like 9 mpg on a trackday but that was far from the norm.

That said, I did stall it after moving it when it was cold despite following the recommended procedure, and having the car suddenly out like that and requiring a tow as well as a (free to me) starter, battery, plugs, and ECU remap was a behavior that was hard to swallow.
On the internet, sometimes I like to exagerate a bit for effect. Its fun for me and Im not the sole offender. 12mpg is probably about right for me though, since I can never seem to get advertised fuel economy or even what most people seem to get.

The starting thing is really unacceptable in a modern car. I know a couple non enthusiests who baught rx8 because in the dealership it seems like a perfectly normal fun and practical car. Both have ended up with replacement engines and a myriad of other small to medium sized issues. A coworker bought one when they first came out. He looked pretty pissed when I called him a rotard. I was just messing around. He proceeded to explain to me how it had a different kind of engine than a normal car though he wasnt sure how it difered. He averaged right around 20 mpg and I dont think that thing ever went past 4k.

Anyways I am sure everybody in this thread is pretty aware of the compromises with the an RX8. Weather or not they are acceptable in a modern car is subject to opinion.

lastly RX8 looks fabulous in white
aschen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 10:40 PM   #33
shikataganai
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
2007 Land Cruiser
2013 LEAF

Default

People focus on the shortcomings but forget about the very good aspects of the car:

- 50:50 weight distribution
- RWD with a mechanical LSD
- Slick 6 speed
- Properly low H/hip point and cowl height
- Real Japanese/non-fat sized seat bolsters
- Predictable power without the guessing game of turbo lag and peakiness, and that addictive shift beep--wait for it, wait for it!
- Ability to fit 245 section V710s under the fenders for B Stock fun
- Relatively compliant ride yet with good mechanical grip thanks to proper suspension design (double wishbones, anyone?)

Last edited by shikataganai; 08-23-2011 at 11:01 PM.
shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 10:41 PM   #34
Yellow_Feva
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 269659
Join Date: Jan 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Orlando FL/Katy TX
Vehicle:
04 Forester STI
Silver

Default

I myself am a firm believer of the rotary engine, worked on them from the age of 15 and lots of people in the states have no idea of how it works or the capability's of it. Hell you mention a 20B to somebody and they have no idea what it is

I've owned more than 10 Rotary powered vehicles and pretty soon will be starting my next Rotary track car.
Yellow_Feva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 10:53 PM   #35
aschen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30733
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston texas
Vehicle:
2007 tiny car
striped

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen View Post
Its a shame its a really neat 4 door chassis, wishbones and space for big tires.
It is poor form to quote oneself I know. I thought b stock guys can run 275s? It is a great chassis and most of its virtues are only loosly tied to the rotary bit. All of its shortcomings are of course the direct result of the rotary. It would still be great and most likely faster in every measurable way with the appropriate piston mill.

Its not that I dont think the rotary is cool as hell. It is. I think the car is great for those aware of the idosyncracies. Mazda more or less sold it as a normal car, which left many buyers
aschen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 11:28 PM   #36
dclin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 86093
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Vehicle:
'13 BMW 650i GC
'93 RX7 Money Pit

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen View Post

....Mazda more or less sold it as a normal car, which left many buyers
And I think this was a huge part in the rotary's bad public image; example, each of the last three articles I've read about the future of the rotary mentioned about its proclivity to 'burn' oil.

If auto journalists were never educated that oil consumption is intentional via the Oil Metering Pump/seal lubrication, you can imagine how well the new RX7/RX8 owner was educated. But naw, the rotary is a sloppily built oil burner like a '70s Harley, as far as the general public knows or cares. Having said that, this is Mazda's fault, plain and simple.

For the record, my FD 'consumes' about a quart/3000 miles, about what my WRX 'burnt' in the same amount of miles.
dclin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 11:46 PM   #37
wrx surfwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 262719
Join Date: Nov 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut
Vehicle:
02 WRX
PSM with rust accents

Default

Tough times. 911, impreza wrx sti, evolution, now rx8. It does seem like affordable sporty cars will move more towards saving weight and taking a hit in power. Fiat abarths for everyone

I may be being dramatic.. but those are four good cars were losing over a few years. I really hope the 991 is just a 911 with a name change as to be sensitive about Sept 11
wrx surfwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2011, 11:54 PM   #38
elirentz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70082
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: charleston, sc
Vehicle:
2005 sti, 02 s2000
88 944 beater

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx surfwagon View Post
Tough times. 911, impreza wrx sti, evolution, now rx8. It does seem like affordable sporty cars will move more towards saving weight and taking a hit in power. Fiat abarths for everyone

I may be being dramatic.. but those are four good cars were losing over a few years. I really hope the 991 is just a 911 with a name change as to be sensitive about Sept 11
I hope you know it is still a 911 its just that the new one will be a 991 instead of a 997 that has been produced for the last few years. The name is not changing it will still be a 911.

Maybe I'm out of the loop but since when is the STi going away?
elirentz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 12:05 AM   #39
wrx surfwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 262719
Join Date: Nov 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut
Vehicle:
02 WRX
PSM with rust accents

Default

I meant the wrx/ impreza split not sti. I must have misread road and track, I thought they were replacing the 911
Yeah the new sti should be very promising. i was just referring to the toyobaru

Last edited by wrx surfwagon; 08-24-2011 at 12:15 AM.
wrx surfwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 01:08 AM   #40
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

991 is the next generation of "911". All of them are called 911, whether their engineering number is 991, 997, 996, 993, 964, 930, or the *original* 911.

They are all called 911, as a lineage.

991 is gaining power, gaining increased size, and interior quality. It is going more toward a Grand Touring car, rather than a focused, lightweight sports car.

Hopefully that will allow the next Boxster/Cayman, engineering number 981, replacing the existing 987, to get a bit more limelight as the main-line sports car, with 2 seats only, and a mid-engined layout.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 02:43 AM   #41
wrx surfwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 262719
Join Date: Nov 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut
Vehicle:
02 WRX
PSM with rust accents

Default

Ok so that's kind of what I thought, I just thought the name was changing. That nomenclature is just another reason to buy a Ferrari instead

Thanks for breaking it down. It would be nice to see the Cayman pushed a little further, but it really is not a very pretty car imo
wrx surfwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 02:53 AM   #42
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
991 is the next generation of "911". All of them are called 911, whether their engineering number is 991, 997, 996, 993, 964, 930, or the *original* 911.

They are all called 911, as a lineage.

991 is gaining power, gaining increased size, and interior quality. It is going more toward a Grand Touring car, rather than a focused, lightweight sports car.

Hopefully that will allow the next Boxster/Cayman, engineering number 981, replacing the existing 987, to get a bit more limelight as the main-line sports car, with 2 seats only, and a mid-engined layout.
That's a possibility. Hopefully Porsche releasing an unrestrained Cayman S coincides when I am in a position in life to buy one, haha.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 08:15 AM   #43
robmarch
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18713
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Time is the Enemy
Vehicle:
06 CRV
04 STi

Default

if mazda truly believed in the rotary's benefits, why didn't they put their money where their mouth was and put it in the best selling sports car of all time, the miata? everyone says the problem was lack of volume, that would have made a big difference over many years.

seriously, with the goodwill they had going in the rx line, and all of the benefits that you are all lauding here, the fact that they didn't consider it for the miata is pretty telling, to me.
robmarch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 09:07 AM   #44
mpaone
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Alfretter Geeoja
Vehicle:
2012 Geeteeeye
and 71' VW Gulf Beetle

Default

The only benefit of this IMO is the relatively low cost to get into an R3 down the road. I will own one...and people will bash me for it, but once I hit the mountains it'll all be worth it.

-Mike.
mpaone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 10:11 AM   #45
Snowphun
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 1800
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Way South Shore MA
Vehicle:
WRX /Cooper S/Miata
awd/fwd/rwd

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx surfwagon View Post
Tough times. 911, impreza wrx sti, evolution, now rx8. It does seem like affordable sporty cars will move more towards saving weight and taking a hit in power. Fiat abarths for everyone

I may be being dramatic.. but those are four good cars were losing over a few years. I really hope the 991 is just a 911 with a name change as to be sensitive about Sept 11
This is a mess.
Snowphun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 10:22 AM   #46
design1stcode2nd
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112178
Join Date: Apr 2006
Default

If Mazda did put the 16x in a 2,300lb Miata I'd buy another rotary. 270ish horsepower(this is the expected hp for the successor to the 13b) in a vehicle that light would be beastly.
design1stcode2nd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 10:46 AM   #47
elirentz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70082
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: charleston, sc
Vehicle:
2005 sti, 02 s2000
88 944 beater

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpaone View Post
The only benefit of this IMO is the relatively low cost to get into an R3 down the road. I will own one...and people will bash me for it, but once I hit the mountains it'll all be worth it.

-Mike.
Do you think this will drive the price down? Anyone that bashes you for having an R3 is an ignorant stop light racer.

I own a 400whp STi and a basically stock 04 Rx8 GT and guess which one I enjoy driving more? Some people just don't understand just how good the Rx8 is in the corners. The balance is just superb.
elirentz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 11:46 AM   #48
robmarch
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18713
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Time is the Enemy
Vehicle:
06 CRV
04 STi

Default

how much less fun would that GT be to drive with the mazdaspeed turbo 4 in it?
robmarch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 12:42 PM   #49
wrx surfwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 262719
Join Date: Nov 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut
Vehicle:
02 WRX
PSM with rust accents

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
This is a mess.
just cuz they're keeping the name doesn't mean they're not making it worse. Didnt porsche just make a 500 bhp panamera gt car? Everyone that likes 911's wants them to be bigger and bulkier, right?

90% of what I said was right. wrx/impreza split, no evo as of 2013, changing the 911 (just released the last version of the current gt3/rs/gt2), no rx8.
wrx surfwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2011, 01:00 PM   #50
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robmarch View Post
how much less fun would that GT be to drive with the mazdaspeed turbo 4 in it?
This. And don't forget about mpg
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Product of the month for the armed forces!!! P&L Motorsports Inc. Vendor Announcements 3 05-18-2010 04:51 PM
P&L Motorsports, we support our troops!!!---plus the product of the month P&L Motorsports Inc. MWSOC Vendor Classifieds 1 05-12-2010 02:11 PM
Car Care product of the year: Armor All Clean & Shine Wipes AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 0 10-29-2007 05:05 AM
Mazda Starts Production of the CX-9, its Second Crossover SUV for NA Market NYCshopper Non-Subaru News & Rumors 0 10-29-2006 10:55 PM
Mazda starts production of CX-7 for North American Market NYCshopper Non-Subaru News & Rumors 9 03-18-2006 07:30 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.