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Old 08-29-2011, 08:05 AM   #1
Finwrx
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Default Rotary Supercars promises to beat Veyron Super Sport

Read more: http://www.worldcarfans.com/11108243...on-super-sport

Quote:
Rotary Supercars has announced one of their upcoming models will be offered with an eight-rotor rotary engine that develops 2,840 PS (2089 kW / 2801 hp) and 2,580 lb-ft (3,494 Nm) of torque.

This will supposedly enable the car to accelerate from 0-100 km/h in less than one second (Top Fuel dragster territory) and hit a top speed in excess of 450 km/h (279 mph). If these figures pan out, the model would trounce the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport and claim a new world speed record for a production vehicle if it indeed achieves that status.

Previously, Rotary Supercars announced their Predator GT with a four-rotor Wankel engine - based on the Mazda 13B MSP - would develop up to 1,200 PS (883 kW / 1184 hp) and a second model called the VelociRaptor was also in construction.

We're taking everything with a grain of salt, but the company has plans to unveil their first model at Top Marques Monaco 2012.
Source: Rotary Supercars

Read more: http://www.worldcarfans.com/11108243...#ixzz1WQ1ekiKU
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:49 AM   #2
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8 rotors would be a very long engine.

Feel free to insert comments about it blowing apex seals here --->________________
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:53 AM   #3
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Sounds like vaporware to me.

If they used a thinner rotor and combustion chamber, like some of Mazda's current prototypes, it wouldn't take up as much space. It also depends on how the ports are cast into the housings and how the eccentric shaft is designed.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:19 PM   #4
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I doubt it.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:24 PM   #5
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the prize of beating veyron in a drag race is..........


wasting lots of $$$ and being forgotten even on nasioc within a week.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:41 PM   #6
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Waste of money IMHO. There are a dozen better things you could do with a 4 rotor Rotary instead of making it into an 8 rotor supercar, like make a decent $50k sports car for example.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:03 PM   #7
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If they could do it and make a car that is still nice inside and handles well, that would be a hell of a coup. The obvious concern is that they haven't even released their "low end" model yet, and this company doesn't have the backing of a huge OEM like the Veyron does.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:07 PM   #8
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^^ you think that's the big concern? Not the fact that a major automaker cant design a 2 rotor that lasts, and these guys are quadrupling that rotor count in a shed somewhere?
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPE16 View Post
^^ you think that's the big concern? Not the fact that a major automaker cant design a 2 rotor that lasts, and these guys are quadrupling that rotor count in a shed somewhere?
Well the shed is what really bothers me.

Mazda's 4 rotor engines were for racing applications and they were naturally aspirated with legendary durability and low specific fuel consumption. And John Deere had 6 rotor engines. A lot of the Mazda 2 rotor rotor engines did in fact last, and the last Rx-8's had fixed all the problems of the early ones. I love all the rotary durability haters on here, when certain model year STi's are great for dying at low mileage in stock form.

What you guys never picked up on is that these engines are designed to run on E85. You can limp them around on pump gas but E85 is a whole different ballgame when it comes to boosted engines. Look at their poorly-translated English website: http://rotarysupercars.de/new/english/home.html
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:22 PM   #10
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8 rotors need not be inline.

This marine engine has 12 rotors, in 3 lines of 4.


That is from Smith-Power, who state the specs of the engine:
Quote:
Specifications
Length: 30"
Width: 31"
Height: 24"
Weight: 830 lbs
Displacement: 960 cubic inches
Max Wide Open Throttle RPM: 8,500-9,000

First scheduled maintenance:
Naturally aspirated (pump gas 87 octane) 1,440 hp pleasure use at 400 hours.
Turbo-charged 10 lbs boost (pump gas 87 octane) 2,400 hp poker run version at 200 hours.
Turbo-charged 25 lbs boost (race fuel 116 octane) 3,600 hp race version at 30 hours.
8 rotors could be split into 2 siamesed-lines of 4, with e-shaft mixing gears at the end.

And BTW, the problems with rotary engines are trying to make them behave as well and as clean-burning at 900RPMs cold as they behave at 9000RPMs at operating temperature.

Just too wide a range to make something universally efficient.

Personally, I am looking forward to the RSC car. I hope it isn't just vaporware.

If Jag is not going to put turboshaft engines in the production X-75 that were in the CX-75, I was hoping they would put rotary engines in front of those generators.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 08-29-2011 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Well the shed is what really bothers me.

Mazda's 4 rotor engines were for racing applications and they were naturally aspirated with legendary durability and low specific fuel consumption. And John Deere had 6 rotor engines. A lot of the Mazda 2 rotor rotor engines did in fact last, and the last Rx-8's had fixed all the problems of the early ones. I love all the rotary durability haters on here, when certain model year STi's are great for dying at low mileage in stock form.

What you guys never picked up on is that these engines are designed to run on E85. You can limp them around on pump gas but E85 is a whole different ballgame when it comes to boosted engines. Look at their poorly-translated English website: http://rotarysupercars.de/new/english/home.html
Oh wait what? I didn't catch that. Suddenly this company interests me intensely.

The website is discussing a 4 rotor twin-turbo/super charging with 1200BHP with the emissions of a 120BHP car . Well they certainly set the goals high .
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPE16 View Post
^^ you think that's the big concern? Not the fact that a major automaker cant design a 2 rotor that lasts, and these guys are quadrupling that rotor count in a shed somewhere?
Wat?


Mazda's Wankel rotaries are very reliable assuming you know how to take care of them.. just like any other engine. People that never rev up their RX-8s and allow the apex seals to crud up with carbon deposits are the reason Mazda had to recall engines. It's not uncommon for people to put hundreds of thousands of miles on Mazda rotaries without rebuilding them.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:53 PM   #13
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The 2004-2008 Rx-8 had a fatal design in the oil system that is terrible for engine life. The problem is that those engines did not have an oil injector for the middle of the apex seal. Previous rotaries did. Those old ones that lasted for 150-200k miles were non turbos that injected a lot of oil into the intake air stream and onto the combustion surface.

The only real solution is to put 2 stroke oil in your gas tank if you have a 2004-2008 model. The 2009+ added another oil injector and completely redesigned much of the lubrication system.
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Old 08-29-2011, 04:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
The 2004-2008 Rx-8 had a fatal design in the oil system that is terrible for engine life. The problem is that those engines did not have an oil injector for the middle of the apex seal. Previous rotaries did. Those old ones that lasted for 150-200k miles were non turbos that injected a lot of oil into the intake air stream and onto the combustion surface.

The only real solution is to put 2 stroke oil in your gas tank if you have a 2004-2008 model. The 2009+ added another oil injector and completely redesigned much of the lubrication system.
Mazda had a major recall about this, and replaced thousands of entire engines.

Also:

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Old 08-29-2011, 04:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
The 2004-2008 Rx-8 had a fatal design in the oil system that is terrible for engine life. The problem is that those engines did not have an oil injector for the middle of the apex seal. Previous rotaries did. Those old ones that lasted for 150-200k miles were non turbos that injected a lot of oil into the intake air stream and onto the combustion surface.

The only real solution is to put 2 stroke oil in your gas tank if you have a 2004-2008 model. The 2009+ added another oil injector and completely redesigned much of the lubrication system.
I'm not disputing what you're saying but I've heard from a rotary tech at mazda that its primarily the 04-05 models that have problems. He says he rarely sees the later models in for engine transplants.
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Old 08-29-2011, 04:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elirentz View Post
I'm not disputing what you're saying but I've heard from a rotary tech at mazda that its primarily the 04-05 models that have problems. He says he rarely sees the later models in for engine transplants.
That's because 1) the newer ones have less mileage and 2) the early ones had an OEM calibration flash that injected less oil. The 06-08 ones will start failing as well, although they will have lower failure rates than '04-'05 models I'm sure.
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Old 08-29-2011, 05:05 PM   #17
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With these kinds of power output numbers, why not just use a gas turbine?
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Old 08-29-2011, 06:44 PM   #18
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Gas turbines are even more heat-intensive, and don't throttle as quickly as a piston or a rotary.

And if you think a rotary is thirsty, a turbine is thirstier, as their idle RPMs are much higher.

A miniaturized turboshaft engine might be nice for a dis-associated hybrid, where the turbine is only on when needed to generate electricity, and otherwise it shuts down, and doesn't spin at idle, but idling a turbine for direct mechanical drive, like the old Chrysler turbine car, and other examples, any time you are sitting at a stop light, it is still generating tons of heat, consuming a comparatively lot of fuel, and cannot be quickly shut down and re-started (as in a start-stop piston engine that can stop itself and re-start in the interval of time like waiting at a stop light.)

A rotary engine is such that it is kind of the middle-ground between piston engines and turbine engines, with some of the benefits and drawbacks of each.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:10 PM   #19
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Anyone consider what kind of tire/magical traction device is going to be able to turn 2.5K! TQ into forward motion, instead of just loud smoke?
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
8 rotors need not be inline.

This marine engine has 12 rotors, in 3 lines of 4.


That is from Smith-Power, who state the specs of the engine:


8 rotors could be split into 2 siamesed-lines of 4, with e-shaft mixing gears at the end.

And BTW, the problems with rotary engines are trying to make them behave as well and as clean-burning at 900RPMs cold as they behave at 9000RPMs at operating temperature.

Just too wide a range to make something universally efficient.

Personally, I am looking forward to the RSC car. I hope it isn't just vaporware.

If Jag is not going to put turboshaft engines in the production X-75 that were in the CX-75, I was hoping they would put rotary engines in front of those generators.
Holy crap that motor is so awesome. Never even heard of Smith Power or rotaries for boats.
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Old 08-30-2011, 02:51 AM   #21
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Wow, that is a pretty bold ass claim. I want to see what kind of gas they base this off of as well, 0-60 in under a second is pretty ridiculous.
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:57 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
The 2004-2008 Rx-8 had a fatal design in the oil system that is terrible for engine life. The problem is that those engines did not have an oil injector for the middle of the apex seal. Previous rotaries did. Those old ones that lasted for 150-200k miles were non turbos that injected a lot of oil into the intake air stream and onto the combustion surface.

The only real solution is to put 2 stroke oil in your gas tank if you have a 2004-2008 model. The 2009+ added another oil injector and completely redesigned much of the lubrication system.
yes, but the rx8 had 2 oil injectors per rotor vs 1 on previous designs. I hadn't heard about 3 on the 2009. AFAIK, the only reason some engines were failing was a simple problem of not revving the car high enough and accumulating carbon deposits on the apex seals. adding 2 stroke oil was much more of concern/maintenance problem on the previous versions.
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Database View Post
Wow, that is a pretty bold ass claim. I want to see what kind of gas they base this off of as well, 0-60 in under a second is pretty ridiculous.
Considering the fact that F1 cars can't do this because of lack of traction, it is a pretty ridiculous.
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Old 08-30-2011, 02:17 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Burnman View Post
Anyone consider what kind of tire/magical traction device is going to be able to turn 2.5K! TQ into forward motion, instead of just loud smoke?
Tires don't deal in flywheel torque.. clutches and transmissions do. I'm sure the gears would be tall enough that torque at the wheels in the lower gears wouldn't be anything exceptional (for a hypercar). Nevermind.. the 1sec 0-60 claim suggests a ridiculous wheel torque. I guess they're going to run giant drag slicks at 10psi.
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Old 08-30-2011, 02:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuggernautTCW View Post
the prize of beating veyron in a drag race is..........


wasting lots of $$$ and being forgotten even on nasioc within a week.

Having the crown for however long. That is all the Veyron was for. To say they did it; AND I haven't forgotten about the Veyron. If this thing becomes real, I am sure I won't forget about it either.

As for wasting money. I think that a lot of learning comes from cars like these. Look at the Veyron and just the tires. Michelin had a team dedicated to this and they learned a bunch about making a tire that could sustain that kind of prolonged speed(even if it was for about 15 min). I am wondering if they are going to use Michelin on this one.
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