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Old 09-03-2011, 09:32 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default When is 40 mpg not 40 mpg?

Quote:
Are some automakers fudging their mpg numbers?
An executive of one U.S. automaker suggests there might be some sleight of hand going on and that the EPA is not catching the offenders.

The issue: There's a noticeable difference between the mpg number posted on some cars' window sticker and an analysis of the data submitted by automakers to the EPA.

The executive raised a red flag earlier this year. He told me his company was unable to replicate the city, highway and overall fuel economy numbers achieved by some automakers for their 2011 car models.

He didn't name the automakers or the car models in question. Neither would he give the percentage differences between the mpg numbers posted on new-car window stickers and an analysis of the data taken from dynamometer readings his company purchased for certain competing models.

But he said consumers are being misled. The mpg numbers on some window stickers or in advertising are being misrepresented, he said.
The EPA is in the process of finalizing regulations for the new Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards for 2017 through 2025. The new regulations call for a lofty standard of 54.5 mpg by 2025. By comparison, the 2016 standard is 35.5 mpg.

The finalization process, which includes determining the procedures for collecting and submitting data to the EPA, is expected to be announced some time next year.

Perhaps now is the time for the EPA to look at its procedures and make modifications to how the data is collected.
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Old 09-03-2011, 02:04 PM   #2
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I know for sure Hyundai is one of them.
not a single owner of the Elantra has hit the 40 mpg advertised.
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Old 09-03-2011, 10:31 PM   #3
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Pretty sure Ford is another one of them.
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Old 09-04-2011, 09:34 AM   #4
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I am pretty sure most of them are one of them...

Do youguys know how they test mpg? They drive specific drive cycles on a dyno and they have professionals who are paid to fudge it within the specified parameters. So the EPA requires the speed is matched within a certain percent so they try and accelerate just a bit slower and so on. Round off the driving test cycle and you get better mileage a bit. So unless they are willing to tell us the percent the tests are off it won't tell us much.
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Old 09-04-2011, 11:52 AM   #5
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Another domain in which the US and Canada should just shut up and adopt Euro standards... Sigh.
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Old 09-04-2011, 02:37 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Bluefoton View Post
Another domain in which the US and Canada should just shut up and adopt Euro standards... Sigh.
Needed to be said again.
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Old 09-04-2011, 04:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bluefoton View Post
Another domain in which the US and Canada should just shut up and adopt Euro standards... Sigh.
You and ChiWRX overestimate the intelligence of the U.S.'s general public. The public still cannot understand the miles->km transition, let alone a miles->km AND a gallons->liters transition. Simply won't happen.

sxotty, I've never gotten the estimated MPG in any of my Ford's(5 of them). The 1 GM product I owned(G8 GT), I got exactly what was advertised. Subaru's are off as well.


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Old 09-04-2011, 07:17 PM   #8
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You can run a European test cycle and covert the results to miles per gallon.
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Old 09-04-2011, 11:55 PM   #9
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I have always been able to exceed mpg in all the cars I've owned. Granted most of them have been diesels which real world mpg blow away the EPA numbers. The one exception is the EVO X, I could only hit the EPA highway number if I hypermiled with Pulse & Glide action.
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:59 AM   #10
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This is why I generally check out Consumer Reports' MPG numbers as well. It makes it a little easier to figure out who is gaming and who is legit.
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Old 09-05-2011, 01:26 AM   #11
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This is why I generally check out Consumer Reports' MPG numbers as well. It makes it a little easier to figure out who is gaming and who is legit.
very true. Funny thing to note, the Koreans and Domestics are jumping on DI and claiming very high MPGs but Toyota consistently beats them out in real world average time and time again. If you look at CR's observed city and hwy for most Toyotas they are well in excess of the EPA rating... not so much for the aforementioned offenders.
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el~sharko
I have always been able to exceed mpg in all the cars I've owned. Granted most of them have been diesels which real world mpg blow away the EPA numbers. The one exception is the EVO X, I could only hit the EPA highway number if I hypermiled with Pulse & Glide action.
Me, too. I drive an '11 Golf TDI, and my lifetime average is currently at 44.7 mpg. It's rated at 31-42. Whatever.
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:34 AM   #13
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P.S. And that's with over 19,000 miles on it.
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Old 09-05-2011, 03:21 AM   #14
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I believe that I will have to buy a high mpg road car in the near future and I cant see buying anything that gets less than 40mpg
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Old 09-05-2011, 08:21 AM   #15
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^^^^^^^^^^^^

Same here. Will probably end up in a Focus SE hatch or a Cruze ECO 6MT.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:18 AM   #16
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Another domain in which the US and Canada should just shut up and adopt Euro standards... Sigh.
Why? The Euro standards are even worse compared to reality. Sigh...
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Old 09-05-2011, 01:35 PM   #17
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^ My bad, you're right. I actually assumed their tests were more realistic (with their fancy urban, freeway, and combined cycles). Oh well I guess we aren't as bad
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Old 09-05-2011, 02:33 PM   #18
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Well we have all sorts of fancy cycles too We just don't happen to rate them on them.

Testing is a really complicated thing. Should they take into account that people buying a WRX are more likely to drive aggressively than someone buying a minivan? That is the reality. A person driving a minivan is more likely to hit the EPA standard than a person buying a sporty car. Similarly a person buying a prius is more likely to. I have driven a prius in a similar fashion to how I drive my WRX and the mileage is bad. Sure it is better than my WRX, but it is no where near the rating.

Anyway long story short I think they should do it in a computerized way so the companies cannot hire someone with a great skill at peak shaving and making their cars look a bit better than they are. Other than that if they are cheating, which has happened then the car companies should get a stiff penalty. There was a case by one of the big 3 (I forget who) a long time ago that basically put a detector on the hood and when it was raised to test mpg the car went into a different mode to use less gas This was like the early 80s or late 70s. But anyway they eventually got caught and now the tests are done differently.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sxotty View Post
Testing is a really complicated thing. Should they take into account that people buying a WRX are more likely to drive aggressively than someone buying a minivan? That is the reality. A person driving a minivan is more likely to hit the EPA standard than a person buying a sporty car. Similarly a person buying a prius is more likely to. I have driven a prius in a similar fashion to how I drive my WRX and the mileage is bad. Sure it is better than my WRX, but it is no where near the rating.
My wife and I get over 5 MPG difference in her Forester. She has the lead foot, I (on the other hand) recognize it's a 4EAT and will be slow no matter how I drive it .
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:48 PM   #20
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I know for sure Hyundai is one of them.
not a single owner of the Elantra has hit the 40 mpg advertised.
I've managed the "elusive" 40mpg several times with my Elantra without breaking a sweat. A lot of owners who complain don't fail to mention their driving characteristics, true city/highway driving ratio.

My commute consists of 60% highway, 40% city with random hill climbs from time to time and at an average speed of 60-65mph. I was consistently hitting 41-42mpg with peak of 45mpg. Now of course my foot has gotten a little heavier since those first few months of owning the car, but even then I'm still in the 37.5-39mpg range.

There's a reason why manufacturers state "up to 40mpg or blah blah" rather then straight up guaranteeing that you're going to achieve 40mpg everytime.

Just sayin.
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Old 09-05-2011, 10:51 PM   #21
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I just bought a Kia Forte Koup 2.0 and did a drive from Atlanta to Miami this weekend.
I got 42mpg and the damn thing is rated at 35 mpg hwy.
I LOVE his car because of looks, price and economy.
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Old 09-06-2011, 10:45 AM   #22
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I've got an average of 54mpg over the past 23500 miles on my Prius. I drive briskly on the highway were I can, and keep it in electric mode as much as possible when traffic is crawling. Using the terrain to its advantages is important to. My 98' OBS ate gas like a truck. I put some direct hits ignition stuff in it and the mileage went way up, but just around the EPA rating. Everyday I see why people cannot get close to the EPA ratings. Gunning the car while crawling in traffic, smashing on the breaks and gunning the car again tends to create bad results.
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Old 09-06-2011, 10:51 AM   #23
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The original link is hardly enlightening. Some consulting company claimed that they don't agree with automaker's mpg rating, but they decline to give any information on why they believe that? The reason why they won't give any information is because they are going to sell it to corporate intelligence guys. It's just a press release to drum up hype for some overpriced report they are selling.
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Old 09-06-2011, 12:20 PM   #24
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My 97 civic's adjusted numbers are 28/35 but I manage more like 34/40.

As many others have said, it's about how you drive the car. I won't say that there aren't companies who can't back up their EPA numbers, but if you find anyone (customers) who can, then you might as well just accept them.
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Old 09-06-2011, 12:30 PM   #25
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How many of you are actually measuring fuel consumption versus reporting what the MPG display in your car is saying? And if you're measuring consumption, are you calculating it over time, or using peak numbers from a particular tank of gas?
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