Pushing coolant on sleeved block, dissambled and no signs of Head gasket failure

[DJIMPREZA]

Originally Posted by wrxG

my byddy had the same issue at 500 miles on his sleeved block
coolant kept going into oil
took the oil pan off pressurized the coolant system and sure enough the sleeve was leaking

who sleeved the block?

I have used 3 us very well known sources and all had issues

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[Crystal_Imprezav]

Happen's to Honda guys all the time. Bar's stop leak usually will take car of that problem.

[stu]

Originally Posted by Crystal_Imprezav

Happen's to Honda guys all the time. Bar's stop leak usually will take car of that problem.

it will also clog up all the smallest passage ways in the engine

[DJIMPREZA]

Originally Posted by Crystal_Imprezav

Happen's to Honda guys all the time. Bar's stop leak usually will take car of that problem.

like the subaru conditioner made by the UK company Holt or something?

just a regular rad leak stop solution is what the honda guys uses?

[h24]

improperly installed sleeves doesn't happen "all the time" in the honda community. Usually only when you have a local machine shop attempt to install them, that has never installed those types of sleeves, is when you'll have problems. I've seen use that radiator stop leak, but I would rather start off with a new block than a band aid.

[amazingmumford]

The stock sleeves actualy are ribbed and are cast in to the block to hold the sleeve in place. When a sleeve is milled out the sleeve has lost that support.


When sleeving, the block must be heated and the sleeves cooled. This process if not done correctly will allow the sleeve to rise in the cooling process. The block gets milled and all looks fine until you run the car and then the sleeve drops. Hopefully at that point all the sleeves have dropped so that when you deck the block they have all bottomed out. It is much easier to just do it right the first time.
I have never droped a sleeve and have been running sleeves since 2005 but with that said I use T sleeves and perfer the 2.2 block. The 2.2 has a lip to provide added support for the sleeve at the top. The sleeves are incerted into the block at the same time witha jig and are kept under pressure for at least 24 hours to allow all to settle in. On the current EG33 block that I am building, I will actualy be adding an additional support at the top to support the sleeves.



I use a stainless O ring incerted into the sleeve and michine a receiving grove in the head. I run a copper head gasket. I have run this setup up to 40lbs with no issues.
Here is a sti block. All blocks should be treated the same but notice the STI block does not have the same support at the top of the block to support the sleeve. One must take the time in incerting the sleeves to make sure that all sleeves are all the way seated and held under pressure to assure that they stay properly seated.

[Homemade WRX]

So I see the LA sleeves runner a thinner top 'T' on their sleevs.

How've they been treating you?

[ASF Machine]

Originally Posted by amazingmumford

...are kept under pressure for at least 24 hours to allow all to settle in.

Quoted for the goodness of mankind.

[amazingmumford]

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

So I see the LA sleeves runner a thinner top 'T' on their sleevs.

How've they been treating you?

The last set that I got for my EG33 were a pain to get.

[DJIMPREZA]

[/quote]Here is a sti block. All blocks should be treated the same but notice the STI block does not have the same support at the top of the block to support the sleeve. One must take the time in incerting the sleeves to make sure that all sleeves are all the way seated and held under pressure to assure that they stay properly seated.
[/quote]

You are talking about axial sleeve support on the sti 2.5 engines as thery are semiclose compared to full close deck on 2.2.. so if the sleeves tends to move to some block distorsions or big power so a few pins machined at the top will make the setup more stoud...

[MartinSTi05]

I would venture a guess that the EJ22 block would provide a negligible amount of additional axial support in comparison to an EJ257/255 block. Even though you have extra "meat" in the deck area to engage the flange of the sleeve two things ruing that theory. First the extra "meat' is cantilevered making it MUCH less rigid in the axis of the sleeve than the lower part of the bore that it sits on considering you have major parts of the block that are not compromised by the machining necessary to insert sleeves like main webs. Also as much as everyone values precision, the chance that a perfect load sharing is occurring between the bottom seating surface of the sleeve and the top flange section that would engage the extra "meat" an EJ22 block provides is remote at best.

Now, as far as the sleeves not wallowing/fretting on the sealing surface at the top of the sleeve at the sleeve HG/oring interface there may be something to that. however Subaru was smart in that the Semi closed aspects of the EJ257 deck line up nicely with the major thrust face of the piston...

At the end of the day the most important factor seems to be that the sleeve is FULLY bottomed on it's axial stop prior to decking. I think an O-ring is the hot setup. It allows you to reach full head stud preload and concentrates the load nicely in point contact at the most critical area of sealing. Assuming something changes and clamp load is reduced the "gain" is much lower because the applied clamp load is done so over a much lower surface area. Making dimensional changes of block/stud/sleeve less significant from a perspective of PSI at the fire ring. Remember, heads studs stretch just like elastic, just not as far and with a hell of a lot higher spring rate. The thing that gives me the willies about sleeves is this: Assuming the sleeves and block are brought to the same operating temperature that block's deck height should grow more than the axial height of the sleeves due to the differing coefficients of thermal expansion. In other words the sleeves would tend to "sink" relative to the deck surface of the block if both are heated to the same temperature.

In practice I think that the sleeve runs at a higher temperature than the surrounding block due to it's direct exposure to flame, and lower thermal conductivity that the surrounding block.

Just food for thought...

[AdamBOMB_STi]

Originally Posted by Crystal_Imprezav

Happen's to Honda guys all the time. Bar's stop leak usually will take car of that problem.

From personal experience, it doesn't hold forever.... cough*crappy ARFab block*cough

[Homemade WRX]

^^^didn't Howard switch names to CNC something or another now?

CNC Engine Dynamics...I've heard of lots of popped engines from them. One of my old customers actually had 2 bad builds back to back from ARFab.
Then he went all sleeved and stroked EG37 which I think is still sitting on the floor. I blame the woman, house and kids

[AdamBOMB_STi]

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

^^^didn't Howard switch names to CNC something or another now?

CNC Engine Dynamics...I've heard of lots of popped engines from them. One of my old customers actually had 2 bad builds back to back from ARFab.
Then he went all sleeved and stroked EG37 which I think is still sitting on the floor. I blame the woman, house and kids

Not sure on the name change bud... and quite frankly I can give a crap about them...

I knew I wasn't alone, but damn... 2 bad builds back to back?! That is definitely believable after my build. Especially the hack job of a "balance" on the crank. Looked like a 5 year old had some fun with a die grinder on the counterweights. :/

[Homemade WRX]

I've had a few cranks come out rather ugly from balancing just because they were that far off. Balanced is balanced and in some cases you can't help the 'look'.

yeah, he had some failure with low mileage and the second one chucked a rod during break-in

[Abnormal]

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

^^^didn't Howard switch names to CNC something or another now?

CNC Engine Dynamics...I've heard of lots of popped engines from them. One of my old customers actually had 2 bad builds back to back from ARFab.
Then he went all sleeved and stroked EG37 which I think is still sitting on the floor. I blame the woman, house and kids

ARFab =/= CNC

ARFab was different owners, different management.

CNC is much, much more than a name change bud



FWIW, was anything checked before installation/assembly? Obviously the OP didn't get a bolt in longblock from one shop, so I'm curious.

Also, what ever happened with the heads? NASIOC bash train was quick to jump on the block/sleeving, but nothing ever happened with the heads mentioned in the OP

[Crystal_Imprezav]

How is CNC not ARFab? Howard still runs the shop and CNC equipment and Tommy still does the motor assembly?

[Abnormal]

Originally Posted by Crystal_Imprezav

How is CNC not ARFab? Howard still runs the shop and CNC equipment and Tommy still does the motor assembly?

Different owners and management, it's made a big deal in my dealings with them as a customer... That's for sure.

[AdamBOMB_STi]

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

I've had a few cranks come out rather ugly from balancing just because they were that far off. Balanced is balanced and in some cases you can't help the 'look'.

yeah, he had some failure with low mileage and the second one chucked a rod during break-in

yea i understand its not gonna look the prettiest, but the crank still looked like a a rottweiler was chewing on it. haha

[DJIMPREZA]

i am just starting to beleive that an sleeved subaru block is simply not going to survive that long for street/strip use..

[Homemade WRX]

Originally Posted by DJIMPREZA

i am just starting to beleive that an sleeved subaru block is simply not going to survive that long for street/strip use..

why do you say that? are your sleeves still dropping?

[DJIMPREZA]

I have issues, we`ll see if this time they will make it all good

[Abnormal]

Originally Posted by Abnormal

Different owners and management, it's made a big deal in my dealings with them as a customer... That's for sure.

Just coming back to update this...

My motor made about 1200 miles, then blew on the dyno. No compression on cylinder 2, oil on all 4 plugs, a spy hunter like smoke screen when the engine is warm and driving...

They went from C & C Engine Dynamics to J & H Engine, Howard and wife have split to become Howard's Hot Rods after Howard left C & C.

I will definitely say I'm not happy with my dealings after the fact. I haven't taken the block off, but I'm assuming it won't show the multiples of thousands I spent...

[kellygnsd]

Different but the same I guess

Originally Posted by Abnormal

ARFab =/= CNC

ARFab was different owners, different management.

CNC is much, much more than a name change bud



FWIW, was anything checked before installation/assembly? Obviously the OP didn't get a bolt in longblock from one shop, so I'm curious.

Also, what ever happened with the heads? NASIOC bash train was quick to jump on the block/sleeving, but nothing ever happened with the heads mentioned in the OP

[Abnormal]

Originally Posted by kellygnsd

Different but the same I guess

I mean...