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Old 08-17-2011, 08:43 PM   #1
2Fast4U1DAY
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Default Boost spike to ~16 psi normal?

Hey everyone, I want to say ahead of time, I am no tuner. I would love to learn though!

Here's my issue. Loaded my Accessport on my car with the Stg. 1 93 octane map. Drove around normally (no WOT or hard pulls) until my DAM was at 1. After the ECU relearned its parameters, I made a few WOT pulls and was getting Boost Spikes to about 15 PSI. It would spike for just a second and then drop back to 14.2 and hold till redline where it would taper to ~ 9-10 PSI. AFR's were 10.8:1.

Fast forward to today. Installed my Cobb SF intake and airbox. Made some pulls and now AFR is 11.1:1, and Boost Spikes to ~16 PSI but doesnt drop back down until ~ 3200 RPM (~5 second later). After the spike it stays at a steady 14.6 until redline where it tapers to ~10-10.5 PSI.

This is on an 06 WRX. Mods are:

Invidia G200 CBE
Intake Silencer Delete
Cobb Sf Intake and Airbox
Cobb Accessport V2

Is there something wrong with it spiking like that?
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Old 08-17-2011, 09:17 PM   #2
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is the tune made for the cobb intake? you said it ran good until you installed that.
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Old 08-17-2011, 09:50 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 424wrx
is the tune made for the cobb intake? you said it ran good until you installed that.
Yes. According to Cobb's website the intake is compatible with the OTS maps for my year and model.
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:13 AM   #4
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Bump it up
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Old 08-18-2011, 08:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
Hey everyone, I want to say ahead of time, I am no tuner. I would love to learn though!

Here's my issue. Loaded my Accessport on my car with the Stg. 1 93 octane map. Drove around normally (no WOT or hard pulls) until my DAM was at 1. After the ECU relearned its parameters, I made a few WOT pulls and was getting Boost Spikes to about 15 PSI. It would spike for just a second and then drop back to 14.2 and hold till redline where it would taper to ~ 9-10 PSI. AFR's were 10.8:1.

Fast forward to today. Installed my Cobb SF intake and airbox. Made some pulls and now AFR is 11.1:1, and Boost Spikes to ~16 PSI but doesnt drop back down until ~ 3200 RPM (~5 second later). After the spike it stays at a steady 14.6 until redline where it tapers to ~10-10.5 PSI.

This is on an 06 WRX. Mods are:

Invidia G200 CBE
Intake Silencer Delete
Cobb Sf Intake and Airbox
Cobb Accessport V2

Is there something wrong with it spiking like that?
Hello.

Can you data log a 3rd gear run from around 2500 RPM to near redline (if you can do so safely)? Use the default logging set (and make sure you are running the latest AccessPORT firmware). Here's a general video that describes how to use the AccessPORT for logging:

Here's a video that describes how to update your firmware:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/info/?id=6006

Also, are you using a wideband o2 to determine AFRs or just monitoring the front o2 sensor?

Bill
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:33 AM   #6
2Fast4U1DAY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning
Hello.

Can you data log a 3rd gear run from around 2500 RPM to near redline (if you can do so safely)? Use the default logging set (and make sure you are running the latest AccessPORT firmware). Here's a general video that describes how to use the AccessPORT for logging:
Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlHP4gFiVrY

Here's a video that describes how to update your firmware:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/info/?id=6006

Also, are you using a wideband o2 to determine AFRs or just monitoring the front o2 sensor?

Bill
I will have to hook the Accessport up to the computer today to update. Will try to get a log tonight and have it posted.

As far as monitoring AFR goes my Accessport is within .1 of my WB O2. Ex. My Accessport says 11.1 and my WB says 11.0.

Edit: the original AFR readings in the OP are from my WB O2. The WB is located on the number 4 exhaust runner.

Last edited by 2Fast4U1DAY; 08-18-2011 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 08-18-2011, 04:43 PM   #7
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Default Here's the requested Log

It didnt load it right. What do I have to do to make the columns stay? They ended up just being in a huge line...
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:19 PM   #8
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dang it lol

Last edited by 2Fast4U1DAY; 08-18-2011 at 05:21 PM. Reason: tried using code it didnt work
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:20 PM   #9
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Well I have the log, I just cant figure out how to post it right. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
Well I have the log, I just cant figure out how to post it right. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Google docs
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx904

Google docs
After I create an account and host it on Google docs do I just post the link?
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Old 08-19-2011, 08:41 AM   #12
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Will have the log posted up later today. I'm at school and the stupid filters here wouldn't let me download the AP manager, so I will have to wait till I get home.
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Old 08-19-2011, 08:44 AM   #13
2Fast4U1DAY
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I also noticed today that the spike doesnt really occur unless I'm making a 4th gear pull. I will make a log and post that as well.
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Old 08-19-2011, 05:53 PM   #14
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Default Got the 4th gear pull too...

Here is the third gear pull...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0


And the Fourth...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

Tell me what you think Bill. On the fourth gear pull I couldn't get anymore engine revs because I was coming up on traffic really fast. Anywho I hope this will suffice.

I see only a little bit of FKLC and at low RPM/load i see quite a bit of FBKC but its completely random. Sometimes I see it sometimes it never happens. I'm thinking I have a loose turbo heat shield (which will be coming off next week when Andrewtech installs my Invidia DP.

I was just basically looking for the "go ahead", that so far everything seems up to "par".
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Old 08-20-2011, 08:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
Here is the third gear pull...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0


And the Fourth...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

Tell me what you think Bill. On the fourth gear pull I couldn't get anymore engine revs because I was coming up on traffic really fast. Anywho I hope this will suffice.

I see only a little bit of FKLC and at low RPM/load i see quite a bit of FBKC but its completely random. Sometimes I see it sometimes it never happens. I'm thinking I have a loose turbo heat shield (which will be coming off next week when Andrewtech installs my Invidia DP.

I was just basically looking for the "go ahead", that so far everything seems up to "par".
Some feedback correction or fine knock learning is normal. Where it is a concern is repeatable events at higher load (such as during a WOT run) that are not due to shifting or mashing the throttle. There isn't any of this kind of knock in either of your runs.

Your boost control actually looks quite good except for an initial spike at lower RPM. About the only thing you could do for that (besides getting a custom tune) would be to loosen the wastegate arm a bit (say, start out at half a turn). But, I would just wait until after you get the DP installed and go stage 2 and then do some additional logs (as that is going to completely change the boost characteristics anyway).

Bill
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Old 08-20-2011, 08:50 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning
Some feedback correction or fine knock learning is normal. Where it is a concern is repeatable events at higher load (such as during a WOT run) that are not due to shifting or mashing the throttle. There isn't any of this kind of knock in either of your runs.

Your boost control actually looks quite good except for an initial spike at lower RPM. About the only thing you could do for that (besides getting a custom tune) would be to loosen the wastegate arm a bit (say, start out at half a turn). But, I would just wait until after you get the DP installed and go stage 2 and then do some additional logs (as that is going to completely change the boost characteristics anyway).

Bill
Thanks Bill. Any Idea why these engines show knock corrections from mashing the throttle, or shifting? I'm just curious. Since everything looks good I will be going stage two on Thursday. Will get some logs on my 1.5 hr drive back from Andrewtech, and post them up.
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:18 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
Thanks Bill. Any Idea why these engines show knock corrections from mashing the throttle, or shifting? I'm just curious. Since everything looks good I will be going stage two on Thursday. Will get some logs on my 1.5 hr drive back from Andrewtech, and post them up.
It could be the knock sensor just picking up drivetrain noise (stuff is moving around abruptly when you do a hard shift or mash the throttle). It may be a rapid change in timing that could also partially be at play. Regardless, it is not something that can generally be tuned out completely.

Bill
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:07 PM   #18
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Well I think I might have found the source of the random, high feedback knock corrections.... Turns out when the dealer replaced my A/F ratio sensor, they never bolted the bracket back up. Everytime I mashed the throttle it would vibrate on the side of the engine, and pretty violently too I might add. I bolted it back up where it should be, and by the time I was done it was dark.

I have an appt at Andrewtech tomorrow for my DP install and some other things, so on my way back we will see if it gets any better. I'm in hopes that that was it, because those random high feedback correction numbers was starting to bother me.

Last edited by 2Fast4U1DAY; 08-25-2011 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 08-25-2011, 03:10 PM   #19
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Bill,

What is the enable criteria for DAM to go to 1? I just drove 140+ miles and it's still at .8. The car feels down on power, and I don't want to lay into it until DAM is where it should be. Thanks again for your help. :-)

Edit: my buttdyno must need calibrated. I still dont have DAM at 1 yet but I gave it about 2/3 throttle and it pulls pretty darn hard. Harder than the Stg 1 map at WOT anyways. Hopefully my DAM will get to where it should be soon.

Edit 2: It finally went to 1 will Post up my logs from the Stg 2 Map tomorrow after I get a chance to do some logging.

Last edited by 2Fast4U1DAY; 08-25-2011 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 08-26-2011, 08:19 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
Bill,

What is the enable criteria for DAM to go to 1? I just drove 140+ miles and it's still at .8. The car feels down on power, and I don't want to lay into it until DAM is where it should be. Thanks again for your help. :-)

Edit: my buttdyno must need calibrated. I still dont have DAM at 1 yet but I gave it about 2/3 throttle and it pulls pretty darn hard. Harder than the Stg 1 map at WOT anyways. Hopefully my DAM will get to where it should be soon.

Edit 2: It finally went to 1 will Post up my logs from the Stg 2 Map tomorrow after I get a chance to do some logging.
Generally moderate steady load at moderate RPM will get the DAM to up to its max (assuming no knock) quicker. It shouldn't take too long with "normal" driving.

Bill
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Old 09-10-2011, 11:53 AM   #21
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Thread revival. Today I was driving into work and I noticed that the ECU was pulling timing at idle?! Is this an indication of an issue? Its pulling -1.4 degrees of fine knock learn. The really weird thing is sometimes its 0.0 then others it's .7 or 1.0, and it just doesnt make sense to me why sometimes it doesn't pull any, and others, .7,1.0,or 1.4 if it is a learned parameter. Shouldn't it be pretty consistant considering its a learned value?
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:23 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
Thread revival. Today I was driving into work and I noticed that the ECU was pulling timing at idle?! Is this an indication of an issue? Its pulling -1.4 degrees of fine knock learn. The really weird thing is sometimes its 0.0 then others it's .7 or 1.0, and it just doesnt make sense to me why sometimes it doesn't pull any, and others, .7,1.0,or 1.4 if it is a learned parameter. Shouldn't it be pretty consistant considering its a learned value?
It is a learned value that can be changed up or down at any time. When it learns up, it is a smaller step than down. For example, one perceived knock count would be, say, -1.4 (depending on ECU). If the ECU decides to go in the other direction for that cell (based on a specific sequence of passing through the cell with no knock), then it increments by 0.35. So, for example, you had -1.4, then -1.05 (shown as -1.0 on AP live data which only shows one decimal place), then -0.70, then -0.35 then zero. It isn't stuck in one direction either, it could be -1.4, -1.05(no knock), -0.70 (no knock), then -2.1 (knock). When the DAM is at max (1.0 for 2.5L, 16 for 2.0L), fine knock learning cannot be greater than zero.

It is normal to see some fine knock learning, especially at low loads/RPM where the ECU is not as effective as distinguishing actual knock from other engine noises. If you start seeing some big corrections in that range on a regular basis like -4.2, -5.6, then there might be some issue (usually it is something rattling in the engine bay if it is near idle).

Bill
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