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Old 01-29-2012, 10:21 PM   #101
Homemade WRX
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yup...if
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Old 01-30-2012, 02:22 AM   #102
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What head porter in the market has heads that flow to 10k???
Who makes an intake manifold that will flow to 10k???? I know Micah is working on one...
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:21 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by jdpsearcher View Post
What head porter in the market has heads that flow to 10k???
Who makes an intake manifold that will flow to 10k???? I know Micah is working on one...

flow numbers aren't everything. Efficiency, Volumetric Efficiency and BSFC will all play parts in how well an engine builds power at high rpm.

For example
If you took two of the same setups and put a 2.5 under one and a 2.3 under another:
with all else being equal, the 2.3 would be more efficient and make more power with the same airflow. This is because the VE of the engine is higher at the same rpm as the 2.5. This means the engine will create more power with the same flow due to lower losses.

The results in this thread, or lack there of are because there aren't enough engines out there with this setup. All the ones that I have sold are still in their break-in tuning phases.

In a few months we'll have a lot more results to show more than just my first build in my STi... which was still pretty damn impressive on a shelf piston.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:32 PM   #104
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Oh and I wanted to add that I talk as many people OUT of building these engines as I talk INTO building them.
This build isn't for everyone. I have a list of questions that I ask customers about their driving habits, goals, future plans, etc. If they don't give me the right answers, the 2.3 isn't for them.

I just built a bunch of these with 102.3mm bores that brings them out to 2.5L. I'm excited to see these results as well.
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:36 PM   #105
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i think its comical that we're de-stroking a grossly over square engine for more rpm since our deck height sucks (width?)
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:48 PM   #106
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that's the big problem really. The deck height sucks so bad that our stroke and rods are too short. I would love to have an h4 with an 83mm stroke and 145mm rods; it would f'n rule.
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:03 PM   #107
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Oh and I wanted to add that I talk as many people OUT of building these engines as I talk INTO building them.
This build isn't for everyone.
True story and ditto. Something I hope anyone will hear from their builder...what will actually best suit their needs

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Originally Posted by sumfoo1 View Post
i think its comical that we're de-stroking a grossly over square engine for more rpm since our deck height sucks (width?)
Oh yes indeed. Dom and I have discussed this lots and wish there was room between our frame rails to 'super deck'...or money to pull it off and drill access holes in the frame.
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:13 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by 3MI Racing View Post
Oh yes indeed. Dom and I have discussed this lots and wish there was room between our frame rails to 'super deck'...or money to pull it off and drill access holes in the frame.
Cut the frame rails out, insert tube chassis, problem solved

If it was only that easy
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:42 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
The results in this thread, or lack there of are because there aren't enough engines out there with this setup. All the ones that I have sold are still in their break-in tuning phases.
.
I'M WORKING ON IT!!!!!!!! Lol
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:37 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Md05STI View Post
Cut the frame rails out, insert tube chassis, problem solved

If it was only that easy
ssshh don't tell my secrets to everyone
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Old 01-31-2012, 03:08 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
Oh and I wanted to add that I talk as many people OUT of building these engines as I talk INTO building them.
This build isn't for everyone. I have a list of questions that I ask customers about their driving habits, goals, future plans, etc. If they don't give me the right answers, the 2.3 isn't for them.

I just built a bunch of these with 102.3mm bores that brings them out to 2.5L. I'm excited to see these results as well.

my goals are 400-420 whp with the best response

i am using ATP3076 with meth and all supporting mods

do you recommend 2.3 ?
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:18 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by rasheedn View Post
my goals are 400-420 whp with the best response

i am using ATP3076 with meth and all supporting mods

do you recommend 2.3 ?
I think he will have more questions for you
BUt the advantage you have is dual avcs which helps a ton on the 2.34
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:44 AM   #113
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looks like all this R&D might be done just in time for me to buy a shortblock

very interested to hear about the prototype valvetrain/cams. to me that's suggesting that your RPM limit is in the heads rather than the bottom end.

if that's the case, that's awesome. gt35 1.06 anyone?
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:01 PM   #114
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Micah and Dom,

I am already sold on the destroked motor....
I like the idea of the 2.35 - 2.5L motors and the multiple variations in between....

The next step I am looking for is the top end of the motor......I am glad you guys are taking the these motors to the next level, but we all know our heads don't flow like an Evo's....UNLESS.....You guys have something in the works for the heads, intake and throttle body combo....I would love to know more....

Has anyone built a LR motor with a compression ration of 11 to 1 or higher with a large frame turbo, say a 37R or 40R? This motor would be run on E85 only.....
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:09 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdpsearcher View Post
Micah and Dom,

I am already sold on the destroked motor....
I like the idea of the 2.35 - 2.5L motors and the multiple variations in between....

The next step I am looking for is the top end of the motor......I am glad you guys are taking the these motors to the next level, but we all know our heads don't flow like an Evo's....UNLESS.....You guys have something in the works for the heads, intake and throttle body combo....I would love to know more....

Has anyone built a LR motor with a compression ration of 11 to 1 or higher with a large frame turbo, say a 37R or 40R? This motor would be run on E85 only.....
Just curious as to where you came up with that number, as it's pretty 'out there'.

I personally think I'd like one of these, but would likely fail the questioning from Dom to display a need for one!
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:23 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by rasheedn View Post
my goals are 400-420 whp with the best response

i am using ATP3076 with meth and all supporting mods

do you recommend 2.3 ?

based solely on your turbo choice I can say no.
The GT3076 is a mismatched turbo from the start with excessive lag for the power output. Put that on a short stroked engine and you're going to lose a lot of response. The only real 30R in my opinion is the GT3071R and the GTX3071R. After that if running a 76mm or bigger compressor, stepping up to the GTX3576R or a regular GT3582R is the right choice.

If you had a better turbo I would still have a lot of questions for you. In the end, you might argue with me and I'll still build you what you want, but if you didn't like it... I'd have to say I told you so. However, I've only had one guy ever drive my car and say he didn't "want that". So it isn't that I feel people aren't going to like the engine, it's just that I feel it won't match their absolute desires.

If shifting near 9k rpm is your only desire, then this is the only engine for you.
If 27mpg on the freeway is your desire, then this ISN'T.
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:24 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Big_DeWeY View Post
I'M WORKING ON IT!!!!!!!! Lol

hurry the f*** up! People are bashin on my **** with no data!
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:32 PM   #118
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Here is my original prototype 2.34 with very little head work. I think it goes without saying that real head work is required to get the desired results from these motors:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1941158

here is a customers car with NO AVCS and some real head work:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2086005

I think the second results are very convincing for an engine with no avcs on pump gas.

Last edited by Maxwell Power; 01-31-2012 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:39 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
hurry the f*** up! People are bashin on my **** with no data!
That's because people don't want to think they've been doing to wrong for so long. Haters gonna hate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
Here is my original prototype 2.34 with very little head work. I think it goes without saying that real head work is required to get the desired results from these motors:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1941158

here is a customers car with NO AVCS and some real head work:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1941158

I think the second results are very convincing for an engine with no avcs on pump gas.
Same link boss
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:45 PM   #120
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:11 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3MI Racing View Post
Oh yes indeed. Dom and I have discussed this lots and wish there was room between our frame rails to 'super deck'...or money to pull it off and drill access holes in the frame.
Tall, closed, deck with huge cast-in iron sleeves.

it looks like the new 2.0 (FA20) may be a bigger block @ 86mm bore and stroke.

either that or it has some really really really short rods in it.
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:44 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
very interested to hear about the prototype valvetrain/cams. to me that's suggesting that your RPM limit is in the heads rather than the bottom end.

if that's the case, that's awesome. gt35 1.06 anyone?
Exactly the current limit on RPM. If you want to drag race, I'd honestly say the engine will gladly take a larger turbo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdpsearcher View Post
UNLESS.....You guys have something in the works for the heads, intake and throttle body combo....I would love to know more....

Has anyone built a LR motor with a compression ration of 11 to 1 or higher with a large frame turbo, say a 37R or 40R? This motor would be run on E85 only.....
first part; something is always in the works...been that way since 06.
part two; the largest that I've had anyone on is a GT4094R but that'll be going out this year with an HX55, possibly a GTX4294R and then possibly a GTX4508R...but for the last turbo, I'm trying to figure out the ECTA's planned season.

Put simply, Garrett likes proving what their turbos can do
...whlie Borg still can't make them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
hurry the f*** up! People are bashin on my **** with no data!
Hugs
Oh and I have a new idea to bounce off of you...I'll call later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumfoo1 View Post
it looks like the new 2.0 (FA20) may be a bigger block @ 86mm bore and stroke.

either that or it has some really really really short rods in it.
Short rods, yup. I'm already working on the platform. Last thing I have to model is the piston.
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:47 PM   #123
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what is the rod length on it?


and jesus someone carve us out a block... if proline can do it for their own custom v8s our simple block halves should be easy.

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Old 01-31-2012, 02:27 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
looks like all this R&D might be done just in time for me to buy a shortblock

very interested to hear about the prototype valvetrain/cams. to me that's suggesting that your RPM limit is in the heads rather than the bottom end.

if that's the case, that's awesome. gt35 1.06 anyone?
craigs car(maxwell engine builder) has a big bore 2.6 in it. (79x102.25)
and he runs a 1.06 gtx3076 with no avcs and its honeslty not that bad.
with fully built heads and kelford b cams it made 485 at 18psi on our dyno at mps.
were gonna step it up to the new gtx 3576 and get the avcs heads hooked up then it will be time for real fun and lots of torque.

I think alot of you guys are dreamers lol. if you had the money to buy a billet block i doubt it would be going into a subaru lol.
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Old 01-31-2012, 02:37 PM   #125
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^ yeah... i stopped mine at a 20g on a forged pistons that goes "too fast" pretty easily

that being said... i do have a 427 side oiler that's now 480 cubic inches that i'm building for going WAY WAY WAY too fast.

It's not a billet block though... just one hell of a beefy cross bolt main iron block.
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