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Old 09-19-2011, 04:53 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Volvo to get rid of 5 and 6-cylinder engines to boost fuel-economy

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It seems like V8 and V6 engines are being phased out by the day. Volvo said it will stop making the biggest engines offered in its lineup in the next 10 years to help meet tougher emissions standards in the United States, Europe and China.

“Before the end of the decade, all Volvo models will have engines with no more than four cylinders,” Volvo R&D boss Peter Mertens said in an interview with Automotive News Europe.

Later in 2013, Volvo will introduce a new family of 3-cylinder and 4-clyinder gasoline and diesel engines that will replace the company’s 5- and 6-cylinder options. The VEA (short for Volvo Environmental Architecture) engine will most likely appear in one of Volvo’s existing models.

The VEA family consists of four engines – 1.5 liter 3-cylinder gasoline direct-injection and diesel options as well as 2.0 liter 4-cylinder gasoline direct-injection and diesel engines.

“We will develop 4-cylinder engines with higher performance than today’s 6-cylinder units and lower fuel consumption than the current 4-cylinder generation,” Mertens said. Volvo says the engines will offer improved fuel economy by up to 35 percent.

The VEA engines are a critical part of the company’s plan to hit 800,000 annual sales by 2020.
- By: Omar Rana
Source: Automotive News
http://www.egmcartech.com/2011/09/19...8egmCarTech%29
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:56 PM   #2
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Thanks CAFE..

one by one the automakers are turning a once desirable line of cars into nothing more than adequate commuters.

One by one they fall.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:01 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO
Thanks CAFE..

one by one the automakers are turning a once desirable line of cars into nothing more than adequate commuters.

One by one they fall.
Because more performance coupled with better fuel economy (as per the OP) relative to the current lineup is a bad thing?
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:07 PM   #4
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More performance has yet to be seen. Do not drink the kool aid so fast.

empty air filled promises are put into print every single day by car companies. Does not make them true.

The best they can hope for is keeping performance level for the most part. NO drop off in performance is considered a best case. But improvements will be tough to materialize. It will be hard to replace a modern V8 with a 4 cylinder and keep all things equal, never mind improving them.

But you can believe the hype. Cars are turning into appliances more and more every day. Anything with spirit is being strangled by regulation after regulation. It will be 10 years before we can recover and have truly fun cars to drive again.

The only thing that comes close is the explorer with a ecoboost 4 banger. I am not sure how that is doing. I would wager it cannot tow what the old V8 explorers could.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:11 PM   #5
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I'm not drinking any koolaid. I'm just reading the post. I was taking the post at face value. Otherwise one could argue that the 5 and 6 cylinders aren't actually heading for the chopping block since it hasn't happened yet.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:50 PM   #6
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No more 5cyl Volvos? Seriously? Wow.
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:22 PM   #7
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Well, there aren't any five cylinder Audis any more, either. Or Acuras.
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:29 PM   #8
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didn't audi confirm the 5 cyl quattro for production?
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:42 PM   #9
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Audi does build I5s. The TT-RS has one, as well as a couple of other applications. An expensive, upright, half of a Gallardo/R8, etc... V10, and turbocharged. It is not an inexpensive engine.

BMW still builds I6 engines, although evidently there is a rumor that naturally aspirated I6 BMWs might get rare, between encroachment between turbo I4, and turbo I6 models, and about a month ago or so, there was a rumor that BMW might introduce a V6 with exhaust turbos and an electric compressor, cut down from their reverse-flow V8.

Volvo's T6 engine seemed like quite a nice one, aside from the fact that nothing in the US is built with one located longitudinally. Supposedly there was one or two models in europe with a longitudinal T6 and gearbox.

Toyota no longer builds the 2JZ.

Jag C-X16 is getting a V6 instead of an I6 (the only slightly disappointing thing about the C-X16, if the production car isn't limited to only having an automatic.)

I6 engines are getting rare, and that is very sad. It is in my top 5 engine choices... If a chassis is too narrow for an H6, and a rotary is not an ideal choice for the car, an I6 is a great alternative. V8s are more common (and still have some width issue), and V12s are far more rare and typically expensive.

I am very sad to see I6 engines becoming more and more endangered. I may be a boxerFanatic, but I6s are sweet engines, too. Maybe more reason to buy an A70 Mark 3 Supra, with a 1JZ or 1.5JZ engine.

If I had all kinds of money, I would restore 80s and 90s vehicles that were very cool, and are no longer being made. Supra. RX7. SVX. Porsche transaxle cars (924/944/968/928), and Alfa GTV transaxle cars, Fieros, MR2s, interesting Saabs and Volvos, I6 and V12 Jags, Air-cooled Porsches, and maybe even 70s, like a Lancia Scorpion/Montecarlo, Porsche 914... stuff like that.

The days of those sorts of cars being built are apparently gone, and the hold-outs like Porsche, are ever more expensive, and out of reach of a typical college-educated, professional worker on an average household budget.

Imagination, creativity, alternative thinking (not just faux hipster meaninglessness, masquerading as 'alternative'), all seem to be on the way out.

Buy your FWD econo-boxes, and the few remaining front-engined, rear-drive holdouts... Everything else is being pushed toward extinction, evidently.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 09-19-2011 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:11 PM   #10
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I hear ya H2B^2. Many of these models are on the way out. While there are surely several forces at play here, the most infuriating to me is that the average idiot is now dictating the parameters of the typical car.

In my fantasy world, a vast majority (say 75%?) of people would be eliminated from the ranks of the licensed and daily drivers which would leave the roads less clogged with idiots texting while they drive and the auto manufactures more open to producing great cars instead of catering to the lowest common denominators amongst us.

Won't happen tho...
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:16 AM   #11
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Well slvr bullet, I can whole heatedly agree with you there!
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:42 AM   #12
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While I don't agree with eliminating people's transportation availability...

I do agree that the lowest common denominator should not be the demographic goal, and it is a very pessimistic and arrogant way to do business, for car companies. And almost all car companies that sell cars to people on normal budgets do that.

A car designed for the most discerning target customer, will also appeal to less discerning target customers. The reverse is not true. If cars, or any other product, is designed for the less discerning, the more discerning are left disappointed at having to settle for what is available. Unfortunately, that doesn't always mean that the disappointed boycott the product altogether, it just means they settle for less, and maintain their disappointment. Unfortunately, that sometimes still gets counted as a sale, by people only interested in making the sale, and no regard for actual satisfaction.

And if barriers to entry such as restrictions and qualifications to get a drivers license were higher, and taken more seriously, perhaps the proletariat you speak of, might take it more seriously. No doubt there are people that need to take responsibility far more seriously than they do, but that can be said of everyone (myself included) on other topics than driving, perhaps.

Expecting more of people should be the matter of course. Shutting people down, or disenfranchising them just makes them resentful, and violent. The news of riots and bloody revolutions breaking out in various places shows that.

Because for every person who you might want to deny something to... there are that many or more who would deny something to you.

I believe the principle is "love your neighbor as yourself." If you hate your neighbor, or call for their restriction, you will be met likewise by others who similarly have no regard for you.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 09-20-2011 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:33 PM   #13
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Well, let me offer a slightly different interpretation of the death of interesting cars.

I think that's what happens in a well developed market with a fierce competition. Naively, one may think that more competition always results in more choices. But this is true only some of the times, usually during the developing phase of a market. What often happens is that once a market "matures", an over-competition will drive smaller, more interesting companies out of business, and leave a handful of mega corporations that cater to the lowest common denominator. Not due to some sinister motives, I'm not a corporate hating hippie, but simply because in most markets relying on economy of scale to produce bland, inoffensive products is the most profitable and efficient way of doing business. (Think Starbucks, Walmart, Coke, Kraft, etc)

Back when Japanese were still "up and coming" and Koreans were still making tin cans with wheels, smaller companies like Saab and Alfa could actually make an ok business by carving a niche, and delivering products that were rough on the edges, but appeal to a particular type of people. Subaru very much fell into this category as well, when offering AWD was something special.

But things are different now. It seems that most analysts agree that the auto industry is oversupplied, and rightly or wrongly, most car companies buy into the notion that when the dust settles in ten to twenty years, only a handful of the biggest companies will be left standing. There are visible efforts by mainstream companies to eat into every single niche that they didn't used to bother in order to maximize the market share, and in response, the "specialty" companies are going mainstream to fight off the challenge.

Subaru cannot just be quirky AWD company any more, since having a midsize AWD car really isn't unique anymore. For instance, there is really nothing stopping Hyundai-KIA to add AWD to the Optima, and they just might do that in the near future. Saab is practically dead, because its niche has long been absorbed by bigger companies. BMW cannot just be an enthusiast oriented company, but now it has to be the new Mercedes by making their cars number and more luxurious. MB, in turn, has to add some sportiness, to fight off BMW and Audi. Similarly, Honda feels that they have to be the new Toyota, and Toyota apparently feels that they need to add some spice to their line up. In essence, everyone's converging to the middle of the market where you have predictable products that vaguely appeal to everyone.

The US has by far the best developed consumer market in the world, and one of the most striking things about it is that whatever segment you look at, you have one or two big companies that make everything. Candybars, soaps, toothpaste, coffee, whatever. There is a natural tendency for free market to converge to a monopoly or oligopoly, especially when there is an economy of scale involved. VAG has already eaten up most of the small car makers in Europe, and I suspect companies like Subaru and Mazda will eventually be absorbed into Toyota or Nissan as well. Similar things already happened in the US a long time ago. Like I said, it's very difficult to compete with a company that can mass-produce inoffensive products that cater to the lowest common denominator of the market. I think the only survivors would be ultra premium specialty companies that can make a business based on a huge profit margin per car. Consequently, I think the days of affordable interesting cars are most likely over.

Last edited by Len; 09-20-2011 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:48 PM   #14
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The existence of the FT-86 speaks against your theory, as it's from the Toyota behemoth.

Additional counterexamples include the Infiniti M35h, both CAFE-friendly and driver friendly, and all the niche performance-line products from mainstream marques (Audi S/RS, BMW M, Lexus F, Chrysler SRT, Porsche * Turbo anything).
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:19 PM   #15
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Subaru is already in a huge mega company called Fuji. Not sure Fuji is willing to sell a brand that is doing so well, even if it is small potatoes to the overall picture. It is a healthy branch to the Fuji Tree.
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:29 PM   #16
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Just because a person is stuck on 'what was' or doesn't happen to like 'what is', doesn't mean all progress is bad. It's still progress.

In 1974 I'm sure that our parents all sounded just like we do now. By 1984 fuel injection, electrinic ignition and computer aided analysis were already bringing the fun back into cars. By 1989 the 'sporty' cars were better than anything from the '70s. By 1995, the average family sedan was better than most 'performance' cars from before.

Now, as then, patience is the virtue. But I suppose that totally lost in our 'me-too' entitled society.
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:48 PM   #17
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Well I Never said that.

I just said that we are entering into another 70-esque decline of fun cars for a while until they figure out how to get the weight down and the fun back up. Which is what your saying. Having to deal with 8 year of crap will not be fun.

I will counter the sporty cars are better today than anything in the 70's argument though. I find my 1971 240Z more fun to drive than a vast majority of cars in the 80's, 90's or today. It really depends on the car. But I know what you were alluding to, and as far as numbers go, modern day family sedans are a match for even some of the 80's ferraris.

but what would you rather drive home. A 2008 Camry V6 or a 70's 911 or Ferrari.
Do not mistake better numbers for being truly more fun.
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
The existence of the FT-86 speaks against your theory, as it's from the Toyota behemoth.

Additional counterexamples include the Infiniti M35h, both CAFE-friendly and driver friendly, and all the niche performance-line products from mainstream marques (Audi S/RS, BMW M, Lexus F, Chrysler SRT, Porsche * Turbo anything).
Of course there will always be exceptions. But can you really say that the LF-A plus this upcoming FT-86 can compare with the Toyota sporty car lineup of the 90's? I think it's fair to say that the height of the excitement for the Japanese manufacturers were in the 80's and 90's, when they were still feeling invincible. As soon as they realized Japan won't be taking over the world, they killed most of the interesting cars from their lineup for the sake of competitiveness.

But my point is broader than that. A large corporation can sometimes produce interesting things, as a corporate showcase. Like the LF-A, or the Veyron. But there is a fundamental difference, at least in my mind, between those money no object, once in a blue moon halo projects, and those that are continuously produced by smaller companies that are intended to be at the core of what these companies are, like Porsche, McLaren, or Ferrari.

Except, of course, now Porsche is a part of VAG, like Bentley and Lambo. Rolls is a part of BMW. Many of the small scale brands with any usable brand name have been absorbed into bigger companies, and I think this will continue. The name will live on, and they will still produce nice cars, and in many ways much nicer than they were able to when they were independent, but at the same time the chance of them doing something truly interesting and risky is much lower now, IMO.


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Subaru is already in a huge mega company called Fuji. Not sure Fuji is willing to sell a brand that is doing so well, even if it is small potatoes to the overall picture. It is a healthy branch to the Fuji Tree.
I don't know all the details, but I actually think FHI isn't that much bigger than Subaru. I always got the impression that FHI was essentially Subaru + misc heavy equipment business. I could be off on this, of course.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Well I Never said that.

I just said that we are entering into another 70-esque decline of fun cars for a while until they figure out how to get the weight down and the fun back up. Which is what your saying. Having to deal with 8 year of crap will not be fun.

I will counter the sporty cars are better today than anything in the 70's argument though. I find my 1971 240Z more fun to drive than a vast majority of cars in the 80's, 90's or today. It really depends on the car. But I know what you were alluding to, and as far as numbers go, modern day family sedans are a match for even some of the 80's ferraris.

but what would you rather drive home. A 2008 Camry V6 or a 70's 911 or Ferrari.
Do not mistake better numbers for being truly more fun.
True. However, if using CAFE as the crux of the discussion, the handling, braking, and balance of a car kept getting better through the 70s and 80s. So that factor has never really slowed. Tires, CAD, and bushing technology kept progressing while the engine was back at the drawing board for a decade.

Nostalgia makes cars fun. Beetles were anything but fun until they were old. Mom and Pop Malibus were just that...Mom and Pop. Who knows, a Camry today just might be the '72 Chevelle of tomorrow (god, I hope not though).

In any case, yes, it's temporary. In the meantime, I'm sure we will all find something interesting enough to buy - or we will just keep the old clunker running until the magazines have headlines like "The REX is back".
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