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Old 09-29-2012, 05:15 PM   #1026
JustyWRC
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Originally Posted by Supraru View Post
Prettier? You're joking right? The wheels are ugly as hell, and the only thing good about the height is clearance if you're into that kind of thing. Yes I drove one, I pdi'd the one that came in. Nothing different to me. Everything is in your head.

You must not get to drive them as much as I do. I was only in the drivers seat of the Crosstrek for about 15 min and I can feel a difference in the suspension alone.

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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
You cannot say he is wrong for saying it is pretty. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you said nobody can think this is beautiful, that would also be overstepping. You can say you hate it. But you cannot tell Justy he is wrong for liking it.
I did that as a joke for the reason you said, but I guess he missed that. Not everyone likes everything.

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Originally Posted by Supraru View Post
If that is the case then I can say what I want and make what comments I want. He is more then entitled to love the way the car looks. I'm sure there are plenty of people that do. When you work at a dealer and you hear everyone say man those wheels are ugly it becomes a general fact that the wheels are ugly. If most people say that at a very large subaru dealer then I'm sure that is the same basic consensus everywhere else. It's called the law of averages. Same went with the brz wheels. Everyone hated them. You ask someones opinion of the car they will say looks great just wish they picked some better wheels.

We have gotten mostly the opposite here. Your one dealership, no matter its size(except maybe Hueberger), doesn't make "law of averages" correct.


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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
After driving mostly Subaru vehicles for the past ten years, I've had this growing feeling that Subaru isn't really proud of their turbocharged Boxers when considering them for the long-haul. I think they've narrowed it down to a control group in the WRX and STI to where they can start to figure out what works and what doesn't with all of the plumbing and such. I do not counter the Forester XT because it's been "safely" mated to an archaic automatic system.

Back in the days, Subaru seemed excited about turbocharging because it was offered on pretty much every model. Now, though, there just seems to be a lot of question marks regarding Subaru and turbocharging for extended use. Direct-injection should help clean it up a bit, but until that's built up a good reputation I'm done with turbos, personally.

Now, an FB25 with DI would be EXCELLENT in the Crosstrek, which is a vehicle I'd consider after my BRZ is paid off in about 3 years or so. If the new Forester gets it that would be really cool, too, since I really liked my 2008 Forester. That moonroof!

I am going to say CAFE standards on this. I think when the new DITs make it here, they will start showing up more(again). Probably not right away, but I believe they will.
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:38 PM   #1027
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Originally Posted by cannedtuna View Post
This is an interesting argument you're making here. I wonder how true this is though because it appears that they are producing turbo models for Europe and Asia.
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
I am going to say CAFE standards on this. I think when the new DITs make it here, they will start showing up more(again). Probably not right away, but I believe they will.
This is probably the best reason. I was speaking solely from a USDM point-of-view. I get depressed thinking about what is available that we don't get over here.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:13 PM   #1028
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
You must not get to drive them as much as I do. I was only in the drivers seat of the Crosstrek for about 15 min and I can feel a difference in the suspension alone.
Wow, you can feel the difference in a lower suspension to a higher suspension. You must be a savant.


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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
We have gotten mostly the opposite here. Your one dealership, no matter its size(except maybe Hueberger), doesn't make "law of averages" correct

You must be a salesman. You guys generally don't know much and are always optimistic.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:26 PM   #1029
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This is probably the best reason. I was speaking solely from a USDM point-of-view. I get depressed thinking about what is available that we don't get over here.

Yes I guess that makes sense then, the new CAFE standards will change a lot and I'm just hoping that it doesn't leave Subaru completely declawed of performance models. None the less, for now at least we are getting the short end of the stick. Its also a hope of mine that all the large sales volume that they've been getting will translate into the creation of models that are reasonably competitive.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:23 PM   #1030
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The XV definitely needs the accessory spoiler for a competed look.

When I test drove the XV and Impreza it was easy to feel the difference in the suspensions. The XV seemed to be in phased by the broken ****ty road on Route 1 in Central New Jersey.

Speaking of CAFE standards, the XV classifies as "light truck" which helps Subaru immensely.

As much as I love a moon roof, I think I would forgo it in favor of the manual transmission. I am still weary of the performance and reliability of the CVT.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:26 PM   #1031
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Wow, you can feel the difference in a lower suspension to a higher suspension. You must be a savant.





You must be a salesman. You guys generally don't know much and are always optimistic.

WTF are you talking about? Optimistic about what? That my customers don't agree with you about those wheels(not) being ugly? And what is it I don't generally know much about? Nope, I am not under the hood and I can't take much apart in there, but what does that have ANYTHING to do with what I said? You said you couldn't feel a difference in the Crosstrek when there obviously is. The power being the number 1 of those. I wasn't saying anything negative to you, just wondered if you had driven one, because you are the first person I have heard that can't tell a difference. You didn't need to come back with an insult.
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Old 09-29-2012, 11:05 PM   #1032
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There is more than just the lifted suspension that probably mad the XV feel better they added additional bracing to the chassis making it more rigid giving it a more solid feel. Yes on some level it is badge engineering but there are enough changes that it is justified as its own model. And I too happen to feel it looks better than the Impreza. Don't get me wrong I think the Impreza looks good on its own but the XV looks better IMO.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:24 PM   #1033
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WTF are you talking about? Optimistic about what? That my customers don't agree with you about those wheels(not) being ugly? And what is it I don't generally know much about? Nope, I am not under the hood and I can't take much apart in there, but what does that have ANYTHING to do with what I said? You said you couldn't feel a difference in the Crosstrek when there obviously is. The power being the number 1 of those. I wasn't saying anything negative to you, just wondered if you had driven one, because you are the first person I have heard that can't tell a difference. You didn't need to come back with an insult.
Optimistic that they will sell. That being said you guys are huge bull ****ters. So I don't believe a word that comes out of your mouth. You'd easily lie to try to make a point.

And wtf are you talking about biggest difference is power? They have the same exact 2.0 fb engine which both are rated at 148hp and 145 ft lbs tq. Where is the difference in power? You're either the best salesman in the world and B&S customers or you're the worst for having no clue about your product line.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:36 PM   #1034
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Can you guys PLEASE not let Supraru troll this thread?? We get it some people don't like lower hp cars and some people just hate new things yadda yadda yadda. We don't need pages of the same redundant statements..

Anyway, it seems like several of the dealerships around me are all getting Crosstreks most seem to have 3 in transit. The problem is that they are all over MSRP. Most don't seem to have the right options and the majority are premiums. I'm probably going to end up waiting so that the supply meets their guessed demand. I'm not so much in love with it that I'm going to hand over thousands of dollars extra just to have it right away. I may end up ordering one too.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:39 PM   #1035
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Optimistic that they will sell. That being said you guys are huge bull ****ters. So I don't believe a word that comes out of your mouth. You'd easily lie to try to make a point.

And wtf are you talking about biggest difference is power? They have the same exact 2.0 fb engine which both are rated at 148hp and 145 ft lbs tq. Where is the difference in power? You're either the best salesman in the world and B&S customers or you're the worst for having no clue about your product line.
Same power, different power-to-weight ratio. So the power feels different in the heavier, less aerodynamic XV Crosstrek.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:46 PM   #1036
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They have the same exact 2.0 fb engine which both are rated at 148hp and 145 ft lbs tq. Where is the difference in power?
Agree with you that the power stats are the same; however, sometimes "power" is nothing more than a perception by the normal consumer. Why all of the "hate" here? Maybe you and Justy should just get a room.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:46 PM   #1037
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My dealer had at least 9 in transit. I was hoping to drive one during a test-drive promo the dealer's running, but they're all sold already.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:49 PM   #1038
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My dealer had at least 9 in transit. I was hoping to drive one during a test-drive promo the dealer's running, but they're all sold already.
My dealer has 4 in transit. All sold, also.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:25 PM   #1039
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Same power, different power-to-weight ratio. So the power feels different in the heavier, less aerodynamic XV Crosstrek.
I guess he doesn't understand that point.

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Optimistic that they will sell. That being said you guys are huge bull ****ters. So I don't believe a word that comes out of your mouth. You'd easily lie to try to make a point.
You're either the best salesman in the world and B&S customers or you're the worst for having no clue about your product line.
No reason to lie to a Subaru customer. Pretty intelligent folks and it is a good product.

I feel sorry for the customers at your store if that is the way a fellow employee thinks about its sales staff.

And I am not a commissioned sales person, so I have no reason to lie or mislead to make a sale.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:27 PM   #1040
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Agree with you that the power stats are the same; however, sometimes "power" is nothing more than a perception by the normal consumer. Why all of the "hate" here? Maybe you and Justy should just get a room.
Customer isn't going to notice the 100 lb difference especially with the cvt.

There isn't really hate towards the car. The car is what it is....a raised impreza with ugly wheels. People bought Tribecca's so there will be plenty who the base impreza isn't good enought for so they'll buy the xv.

I don't even care about Justy. He commented on something I said starting this whole thing. Guy was trying to be smug because he's a salesman. When I made my statement he thought he had one up on me but didn't realize I'm a tech and already drove one. From there I figured out he was a salesman and I know his game. You meet one you meet them all. They are programed from Subaru to spout stuff that really means nothing to the customer. Salesman on a forum however are the worst kind because they think they know everything. They don't. As a matter of fact they usually over talk things just as Justy is doing here.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:33 PM   #1041
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Customer isn't going to notice the 100 lb difference especially with the cvt.

There isn't really hate towards the car. The car is what it is....a raised impreza with ugly wheels. People bought Tribecca's so there will be plenty who the base impreza isn't good enought for so they'll buy the xv.

I don't even care about Justy. He commented on something I said starting this whole thing. Guy was trying to be smug because he's a salesman. When I made my statement he thought he had one up on me but didn't realize I'm a tech and already drove one. From there I figured out he was a salesman and I know his game. You meet one you meet them all. They are programed from Subaru to spout stuff that really means nothing to the customer. Salesman on a forum however are the worst kind because they think they know everything. They don't. As a matter of fact they usually over talk things just as Justy is doing here.

Seems to be the same about mechanics. You get technical training and drive the car around the block a mile to PDI the car. We get behind the wheel training and mile upon miles of test drives with customers. I drove the Crosstrek for about 15 miles. How many did you put on that one car you got in? And what did I over talk? I said I like the Crosstrek better than the Impreza but would like more power(to make up for that power to weight ratio thing).
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:33 PM   #1042
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I guess he doesn't understand that point.



No reason to lie to a Subaru customer. Pretty intelligent folks and it is a good product.

I feel sorry for the customers at your store if that is the way a fellow employee thinks about its sales staff.

And I am not a commissioned sales person, so I have no reason to lie or mislead to make a sale.
We actually have some really good salesmen. One of our guys is I believe one of the top 10 or 15 subaru salesman in the US. The few that aren't good are just stupid. It's very easy to spot your type.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:37 PM   #1043
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Seems to be the same about mechanics. You get technical training and drive the car around the block a mile to PDI the car. We get behind the wheel training and mile upon miles of test drives with customers. I drove the Crosstrek for about 15 miles. How many did you put on that one car you got in? And what did I over talk? I said I like the Crosstrek better than the Impreza but would like more power(to make up for that power to weight ratio thing).
Us techs are way faster learners then salesmen. We get paid to diag a car as quick as possible so most of us are more in tuned with cars then a salesman is. It doesn't take us 15 miles to figure out how a car feels. Didn't take a long drive to pin down how a brz handled either. Less then a mile.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:39 PM   #1044
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I don't even care about Justy. He commented on something I said starting this whole thing. Guy was trying to be smug because he's a salesman. When I made my statement he thought he had one up on me but didn't realize I'm a tech and already drove one. From there I figured out he was a salesman and I know his game. You meet one you meet them all. They are programed from Subaru to spout stuff that really means nothing to the customer. Salesman on a forum however are the worst kind because they think they know everything. They don't. As a matter of fact they usually over talk things just as Justy is doing here.

And to clarify, I really wasn't trying to be smug. The "prettier" fix was kind of a joke since I like the wheels and so do some customers I have talked to. Yes, I have also heard they were ugly. I asked if you had driven one because a lot of people on here spout out crap about a car they have never driven. I forgot you were a tech and had probably driven one. I am not sure when the training guys will get that far east(they started in Cali), but hopefully you can play with it the way we did. Did not mean to ruffle your feathers.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:48 PM   #1045
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
And to clarify, I really wasn't trying to be smug. The "prettier" fix was kind of a joke since I like the wheels and so do some customers I have talked to. Yes, I have also heard they were ugly. I asked if you had driven one because a lot of people on here spout out crap about a car they have never driven. I forgot you were a tech and had probably driven one. I am not sure when the training guys will get that far east(they started in Cali), but hopefully you can play with it the way we did. Did not mean to ruffle your feathers.
Techs don't go through training like the salesmen do. You guys get a crash course on the car and drive it and whatever else you do. You also sometimes get cool free stuff. Our training teacher can't even get leftovers to give out to us. We just go to new technology training when there is enough change to a new car like the new fb, brz, eyesite training. It blows driving to New Jersey to sit in class all day and get paid 8 hours.
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:30 PM   #1046
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Customer isn't going to notice the 100 lb difference especially with the cvt.
I thought it was 150-200 lbs, around the weight of a passenger (which I can notice when I drive my 2.5 Legacy). You probably know the numbers better than I, though. *shrug*

Anyway, the "most efficient AWD crossover" moniker will be good for selling Subarus, but I think we can all agree it'd be nice to see at least an option for more power, and I can certainly see those wheels not appealing to everyone even though I like 'em myself. Maybe Subaru will offer an alternate alloy option at some point.

I think the appeal will be wide enough to sell well enough, despite these things.
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:42 PM   #1047
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I thought it was 150-200 lbs, around the weight of a passenger (which I can notice when I drive my 2.5 Legacy). You probably know the numbers better than I, though. *shrug*
XV Premium w/ manual= 3,087 lbs
XV Premium w/ CVT= 3,142 lbs
XV Limited w/ CVT= 3,164 lbs


Impreza Sport Premium w/ manual= 2,998 lbs
Impreza Sport Premium w/ CVT= 3,076 lbs
Impreza Sport Limited w/ CVT= 3,087 lbs


Less than 100 lbs difference between comparable XV and Impreza Sport models according to Subaru.com.
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:44 PM   #1048
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We actually have some really good salesmen. One of our guys is I believe one of the top 10 or 15 subaru salesman in the US. The few that aren't good are just stupid. It's very easy to spot your type.

What's up with the continued insults? Look back. I haven't anything negative about you. You, sir, know nothing about me to make that assumption. Outside stating opinions, how is it that I am stupid about the product?


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Techs don't go through training like the salesmen do. You guys get a crash course on the car and drive it and whatever else you do. You also sometimes get cool free stuff. Our training teacher can't even get leftovers to give out to us. We just go to new technology training when there is enough change to a new car like the new fb, brz, eyesite training. It blows driving to New Jersey to sit in class all day and get paid 8 hours.

I know how that feels just with this Crosstrek/EyeSight training. 16 hours of driving for about 4 hours of training. Only to be reimbursed gas/food/lodging. Worth it though. It was fun.

To add to my job(at the dealership), it is just a side job. I am a full time firefighter.
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:02 PM   #1049
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i should be ordering mine tomorrow.
Im baffled on why subaru would do this. You cant get JUST the moonroof on the limited. It comes in a package, moon roof + GPS for $2000. So instead, im getting the moonroof in the premium with the cvt trans. Thank god im not getting the 5 spd, because you cant get the moonroof. What the hell does one thing have to do with the other?.
Amen. Check out Subaru of Canada web site. You can get a fully loaded XV (leather, GPS, moon roof, HID, etc) WITH A 5 SPEED! Why does SOA do this to the states all the time? Guaranteed, the last model year of the current XV, they will look in their parts bin and find there are too many leftover parts. Then, they will offer all the options available to the states.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:40 AM   #1050
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
correct. Today with higher gas prices, and simply getting older, driving habits and needs change. The turbo/h6 engines and non DI 2.5 s are way behind the curve with fuel economy ratings cars are getting today.

This is why the XV appeals to me. I'm cross shopping this with the new Mazda CX5 AWD touring. Will come down to road manners. And I know the Mazda has this going for them.

--kC

I will be doing exactly this for the wife come late 2013. Please post your thoughts once you get to test driving, I'd be curious to see what you thought.
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