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Old 10-01-2012, 08:59 AM   #1051
jay25RS
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This is why the XV appeals to me. I'm cross shopping this with the new Mazda CX5 AWD touring. Will come down to road manners. And I know the Mazda has this going for them.

--kC
My friend really wanted a CX-5. I went with him to test drive it and he was disappointed by it. The car was much bigger than he thought it was going to be.(He was following this design since the early announcements and autoshows and really thought that he was going to buy one until he saw one in person and drove it.) The transmission was something that I'd never be able to tolerate and just feels like it is going to a nightmare to get lots and lots of miles on reliably. He reluctantly agreed to test drive a 2012 Impreza even though he lamented that Subaru's were for lesbos and he ended up liking it better and buying it.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:34 AM   #1052
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The transmission was something that I'd never be able to tolerate and just feels like it is going to a nightmare to get lots and lots of miles on reliably.
How so? What didn't you like about it? It's made to shift a bit more and have more of a direct, quick shift above 15mph.

--kC
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:40 AM   #1053
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Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
XV Premium w/ manual= 3,087 lbs
XV Premium w/ CVT= 3,142 lbs
XV Limited w/ CVT= 3,164 lbs


Impreza Sport Premium w/ manual= 2,998 lbs
Impreza Sport Premium w/ CVT= 3,076 lbs
Impreza Sport Limited w/ CVT= 3,087 lbs


Less than 100 lbs difference between comparable XV and Impreza Sport models according to Subaru.com.
Thank you.
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:33 PM   #1054
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I think the perceived "power" difference between the XV and the Impreza are from the increased drag coefficient and heavier rolling mass. Looking at the curb weight alone, doesn't make much of a case.

In my opinion, there will be two types of customers who will end up buying the XV:
1. Those who like the added utility of the increased clearance and arent necessarily looking to go fast on the road anyway. these people will most likely live in areas that recieve large amounts of snow in the winter time.
2. Those who like the "tough" look of the XV and are willing to sacrifice efficiency and on-road performance for this look.

For Subaru, it is a win-win situation: They get to attract more customers in the "crossover" segment and they increase their CAFE ratings because the XV, having the tinted glass and increased ride height is considered a light truck.

For you salesmen and technicians squabbling, give it a rest, please. :-)

I put an order in for an XV Premium in Khaki with a 5 speed. Got a great price from Subaru of Cherry Hill in NJ. Ordered with the spoiler, of course, and a few other accessories. I hope it comes soon!

I wish we could get the Canadian options like the HIDs, and 5 speed with a moon roof. IF you look on the German site they even have LED running lights and much nicer roof racks, ground effects, etc.
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:37 PM   #1055
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How so? What didn't you like about it? It's made to shift a bit more and have more of a direct, quick shift above 15mph.

--kC
It seemed like it was in the wrong gear all the time! To quickly accelerate from a slow 30-35mph cruise by flooring it caused a delay. (Much worse than a traditional torque converter automatic even..) Then the fact that the transmission just feels not so good... I mean I get it, it's a different way to do it, just like CVT is different but this didn't just feel different, it felt bad to me...
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:42 PM   #1056
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Only a matter of time before we start having guys ask how they can raise their Impreza Sport and where they can buy XV Crosstrek badges from. Only a matter of time.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:03 PM   #1057
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The Impreza Sport/previous Outback 17" wheels would be an improvement for the XV.

I just wonder if this would be even more well received, if the XV differed from the Outback Sport, er, I mean Impreza Sport, by actually offering more power.

FB25 base engine, like the Forester, but the 4.11 gearing, rather than 4.44 final drive that most Foresters have. CVT or Legacy GT's 6MT symmetrical AWD transaxle, with a rear LSD. Legacy/Forester sized brakes.

A slightly re-calibrated SI drive on the premium model, that also incorporates two stage dampers (sport and Sport# modes tighten up the suspension on-road, "I" softens damping as well as reducing throttle rate for soft-roading and efficient on-road cruise.

(which could also apply to Forester and Outback models, to share costs)

Then, after WRX/STI comes out... offer a turbocharged performance version of the XV with a half-inch less ride height, aluminum suspension, bilsteins, and wider stock wheels and tires, and monobloc brakes, and World Rally Blue paint as an option.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:08 PM   #1058
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^ Yes, many of us would be more excited about the XV if they offered something other than the FB20. Like the FB25 or a turbo. However I know many are happy with the XV as is on here. If I am going to use this for ski trips, towing stuff, driving at high elevation with gear and loaded with passengers, I need more than the FB20.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:19 PM   #1059
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Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
^ Yes, many of us would be more excited about the XV if they offered something other than the FB20. Like the FB25 or a turbo. However I know many are happy with the XV as is on here. If I am going to use this for ski trips, towing stuff, driving at high elevation with gear and loaded with passengers, I need more than the FB20.
I have often wondered, and sometimes asked...

Would those that are currently satisfied...

would those people be somehow dis-satisfied if the reality were shifted so that the rest of us were also satisfied.

Would an FB25 make the people who are OK with the FB20 unhappy somehow? (especially in the XV's case, where the Impreza Sport has the FB20, and still almost 6 inches of ground clearance for itself, even if not as much as the XV. Lower ride height helps aero drag anyway, for those seeking fuel economy above performance.)

Maybe 1 or 2 mpg less... but much more practical power availability, which might require less real-world throttle application most of the time...

With DFI on the FB25, I doubt the FB25 would even suffer much less fuel economy.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:38 PM   #1060
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
I have often wondered, and sometimes asked...

Would those that are currently satisfied...

would those people be somehow dis-satisfied if the reality were shifted so that the rest of us were also satisfied.
I think the people who are satisfied with the FB20 might change their tune the first time they are at higher elevation with a car full of people and gear trying to keep pace with the rest of traffic.

I was "fine" with my FB20 until I got myself into a situation where there definitely wasn't enough power to safely pass through some mountains. The FB20 seems to burn gas an an alarming rate when the engine is forced into high RPM operation just to keep up with traffic. I think "real world" MPG would be almost identical between the FB25 and FB20 for people like myself that don't live in flat areas.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:39 PM   #1061
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Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post
I think "real world" MPG would be almost identical between the FB25 and FB20 for people like myself that don't live in flat areas.
I think that you are correct. My 2010 Outback gets about the same MPG in urban environments as the 2012 Impreza Sport. For strictly highway MPGs, the Impreza is about +2 MPG.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:52 PM   #1062
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Originally Posted by G-Omaha View Post
I think that you are correct. My 2010 Outback gets about the same MPG in urban environments as the 2012 Impreza Sport. For strictly highway MPGs, the Impreza is about +2 MPG.

This is pretty good considering we have had a few customers come back and state they got 41mpg on a trip in there Sport. I am sure it was on a flat route though. The best I have heard of in an Outback was 36 from Chicago to Memphis.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:01 PM   #1063
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I just got confirmation that my wifes Tangerine Orange Pearl Crosstrek limited will be here 10/24/12 - im adding the roof spoiler, sport grill and body molding!
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:09 PM   #1064
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Originally Posted by bulldog2277 View Post
I just got confirmation that my wifes Tangerine Orange Pearl Crosstrek limited will be here 10/24/12 - im adding the roof spoiler, sport grill and body molding!
I just put the order in for mine saturday. We will have twins.

Tangerine, spoiler, sport grill. opted out of the body molding. I wanted the limited, but unfortunately, cant get the moon roof without the GPS option. So premium it is with the moon roof and CVT.

Bulldog, After you placed the order, how long before they told you when it is arriving?
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:56 PM   #1065
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Originally Posted by G-Omaha View Post
I think that you are correct. My 2010 Outback gets about the same MPG in urban environments as the 2012 Impreza Sport. For strictly highway MPGs, the Impreza is about +2 MPG.

Isn't the 2010 Outback 6MT 19/27 and the Impreza Sport 5MT 25/33. I guess if you consider 6 mpg to be the same ok.

Current 2013 Outback CVT with the FB25 gets 24/30. I would expect the new 2014 Forester CVT with FB25 to get something similar.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:40 PM   #1066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
The Impreza Sport/previous Outback 17" wheels would be an improvement for the XV.

I just wonder if this would be even more well received, if the XV differed from the Outback Sport, er, I mean Impreza Sport, by actually offering more power.

FB25 base engine, like the Forester, but the 4.11 gearing, rather than 4.44 final drive that most Foresters have. CVT or Legacy GT's 6MT symmetrical AWD transaxle, with a rear LSD. Legacy/Forester sized brakes.

A slightly re-calibrated SI drive on the premium model, that also incorporates two stage dampers (sport and Sport# modes tighten up the suspension on-road, "I" softens damping as well as reducing throttle rate for soft-roading and efficient on-road cruise.

(which could also apply to Forester and Outback models, to share costs)

Then, after WRX/STI comes out... offer a turbocharged performance version of the XV with a half-inch less ride height, aluminum suspension, bilsteins, and wider stock wheels and tires, and monobloc brakes, and World Rally Blue paint as an option.

.........
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:21 PM   #1067
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njwrxman21

I just put the order in for mine saturday. We will have twins.

Tangerine, spoiler, sport grill. opted out of the body molding. I wanted the limited, but unfortunately, cant get the moon roof without the GPS option. So premium it is with the moon roof and CVT.

Bulldog, After you placed the order, how long before they told you when it is arriving?
Well I work at a dealership, I've been tracking it, we decided last night to pull the trigger and buy it, couldn't pass up the deal I got

Congrats, I think this thing will be incredible!
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:56 AM   #1068
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I think the people who are satisfied with the FB20 might change their tune the first time they are at higher elevation with a car full of people and gear trying to keep pace with the rest of traffic.

I was "fine" with my FB20 until I got myself into a situation where there definitely wasn't enough power to safely pass through some mountains. The FB20 seems to burn gas an an alarming rate when the engine is forced into high RPM operation just to keep up with traffic. I think "real world" MPG would be almost identical between the FB25 and FB20 for people like myself that don't live in flat areas.
This is correct my Outback (2010) gets the same MPG'S driven the same way. If you don't drive the FB20 like grandma then prepare for getting 23/30 instead of the highly touted 27/36
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:55 AM   #1069
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I think the people who are satisfied with the FB20 might change their tune the first time they are at higher elevation with a car full of people and gear trying to keep pace with the rest of traffic.

I was "fine" with my FB20 until I got myself into a situation where there definitely wasn't enough power to safely pass through some mountains. The FB20 seems to burn gas an an alarming rate when the engine is forced into high RPM operation just to keep up with traffic. I think "real world" MPG would be almost identical between the FB25 and FB20 for people like myself that don't live in flat areas.
The XV 2.0i has a peak rated horsepower of 148 hp at sea level. As a rule of thumb, a normally aspirated engine loses about 3% of its power for every 1000 ft increase in elevation above sea level (more-precise losses can be estimated using SAE J1349 correction factors, as implemented in the calculator at http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp_dp.htm). So, for example, an XV 2.0i operated in Denver (5280 ft ASL) would have its peak power reduced to about 125 hp, which is probably fine for driving in the Denver metro area, given that it is relatively flat and you only need about 50 hp to maintain cruising speed on a level road. However, if you frequently drive in the mountains to the west of Denver during the summer on two lane roads and need to pass slow motor homes and campers at 8000 ft ASL, your peak horsepower drops to about 112 hp and that task becomes more challenging.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:55 AM   #1070
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Originally Posted by pgh88 View Post
This is correct my Outback (2010) gets the same MPG'S driven the same way. If you don't drive the FB20 like grandma then prepare for getting 23/30 instead of the highly touted 27/36
I don't drive our Sport Premium like a grandma and consistently get ~30mpg mixed driving. Get 34-35 on the highway and around 28 city. Consistently.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:01 AM   #1071
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However, if you frequently drive in the mountains to the west of Denver during the summer on two lane roads and need to pass slow motor homes and campers at 8000 ft ASL, your peak horsepower drops to about 112 hp and that task becomes more challenging.
Exactly. Then add 4 adults (700 lbs) and another 200 lbs of gear and you are looking at a 4000 lbs vehicle.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:15 AM   #1072
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Exactly. Then add 4 adults (700 lbs) and another 200 lbs of gear and you are looking at a 4000 lbs vehicle.
Might want to check and see what the official weight carrying capacity is...
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:41 AM   #1073
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Might want to check and see what the official weight carrying capacity is...
4 adults and 200lbs of gear and luggage won't max carrying capacity. But at elevation in Colorado/Utah it will be slow and lack the torque to merge or pass easily. Consider being 8000-9000 ft above sea level and the numbers CBB calculated and how much power will be lost at the wheels secondary to AWD and elevation, anyone living/playing in the mountains will likely consider the FB20 underwhelming in this car.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:46 AM   #1074
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I spotted my first XV yesterday on 84 in Manchester CT. Gave the guy a thumbs up.
Has a really cool presence, but the wheels look surprisingly tiny!
Pardon the crap picture.

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Old 10-02-2012, 09:52 AM   #1075
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4 adults and 200lbs of gear and luggage won't max carrying capacity.
That depends on the size of the adults. I can't find '12+ Impreza GVWR, but in the past they've typically been around 1000lbs over the curb weight for Imprezas.
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