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Old 09-15-2011, 08:22 AM   #1
bluesubie
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UOA by Oil Analyzers Inc.

Driving conditions: Oil in use since March 2011; 7 mile daily commute each way; spirited driving with a few redlines here and there on days where I have a 30 minute drive. A trip to SC during June. Most of my consumption is usually on trips if I’m driving on the interstate at steady highway speeds (3500 rpm's at 80 mph). I went AP Stage I OTS 700 miles ago. Probably not done early enough to affect this OCI though.

Comments: Lubricant and filter change is suggested if not done at sampling time; Infared results indicate OXIDATION is SEVERELY HIGH. Infared results indicate that NITRATION is at a SIGNIFICANT LEVEL; FLAGGED ADDITIVE levels indicate slight LUBE MIXING

Equipment make: Subaru
Equipment model: 2.5L Turbo
Oil use interval: 6022 miles
Oil type & Grade: Motul X-Lite 0W-30
Make-up oil added: 1.5 Liters
Miles on unit: 112,407
Air filter: Amsoil Ea panel filter
Oil filter: OEM Honeywell
Overall severity of report = 4 abnormal

Code:
(newest to oldest, left to right)
X-lite; PU 5W40; M1 0W40; Amsoil SSO; Amsoil SSO 
Iron 4 8 7 11 11 
Chromium 0 0 0 0 0 
Nickel 0 0 0 0 0 
Aluminum 0 2 0 3 3 
Copper 8 8 15 5 6 
Lead 1 1 0 10 4 
Tin 0 0 0 1 0
Cadmium 0 0 0 1 0
Silver 0 0 0 0 0
Silicon 7 7 8 10 11 
Sodium 2 10 22 28 90  
Potassium 0 0 3 2 2 
Titanium 0 0 0 0 0 
Molybdenum 4 24 123 2 1 
Antimony 0 1 2 0 0 
Manganese 0 0 0 4 0  
Lithium 0 0 0 3 0 
Boron 6 117 112 7 7 
Magnesium 13 19 30 17 17
Calcium 3323 2347 2805 3497 3423 
Barium 0 0 0 0 0
Phosphorus 984 824 880 654 677 
Zinc 1145 1050 1061 717 755 
Lube chg No
Filter chg No
Fuel % <1 <1 <1 <1 <.5
Soot <.1%  <.1% <.1% .1% <.1%
Water <.1% <.1% <.1% <.1% <.1%
Vis @ 100C: 11.3 12.1 13.2 10.1 9.6
TBN 4.93 3.78 1.99 4.35 4.01
Oxidation 47 (4 critical) 15 37 43 38
Nitration 26 (3 abnormal) 27 27 32 27
I'm thinking that most of the oxidation is from the ester based Motul. I'm happy with the low wear. TDS states the viscosity on this oil is 11.9 and TBN is 11.2.

Haven't changed the oil yet.

Comments, flames, or questions?

/Uncle Scotty voice
dOOOOOOOd. Stop using that expensive crap and head to Wal-Mart for Rotella!
/Uncle Scotty voice

-Dennis
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Last edited by bluesubie; 09-15-2011 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:07 AM   #2
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For your particular car and type of use, perhaps you need to at least do the next run with Rotella T6.

I hate to think it has anything to do with the engine itself. So the T6 oil check seems to be the next thing in the logic flow.
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Old 09-15-2011, 12:25 PM   #3
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I should probably pull another sample and send to Blackstone as it would probably be considered a very good report. That's the problem sometimes with having too much information with OAI. They do acknowledge that my numbers may be from lube mixing, but esters are known to show bonky oxidation numbers with this type of uoa. Not that there is actually much oxidation going on. Terry Dyson used to talk about this when he posted free advice at BITOG.

I'm hesitant on running 5W-40 in the winter with my weak OEM battery. Starts took a little longer than I liked running PU last winter. Although uoa didn't show any additional wear. My wife's car starts very easily with 5W-40. Heck, I ran 10W-40 conventional one winter in her Outback and never had problems (Interstate battery). My battery is only 2 years old and I hate to waste it.

-Dennis
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:19 PM   #4
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I put a pc680 dry cell and a handmade soldered welding lug multipoint grounding harness on my wrx in 2002. I replaced the first pc680 a couple of years ago and used the original for a 100 watt halogen searchlite I adapted to it. Talk about lighting up the forest!

Theory says I shouldn't use a dry cell like that in the area I live. I was able to start at -6F, but a thin 5w-30 oil was in the car. I had no trouble with T6 last year, but I usually thin it a bit with a different oil. Usually Ultra or Platinum 5w-30.

Purists would never mix oils fearing that a runaway explosive event could occur.

he original engine and turbo, with 22 psi utec tune 97 octane txs stg 3 utec. Mostly twisty hill driving with much quick merging plus quick hill climbs near Camp David and high rock.
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:58 PM   #5
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With 112,xxx miles and that consumption, I'd just ditch the PCV and get an AOS in there.
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:10 PM   #6
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And I guess the only thing that RT6 would offer is thicker viscosity which might help consumption. The X-lite may have better cleaning ability from 3x the calcium and ester base stocks.

Oh, and speaking of PCV, and don't even remember when it was past changed so I'll have to check.

Love those roads in Central (?) MD. I have an Uncle just off 340 in Knoxville and was just there a few weeks ago.

Good post from SubLGT at BITOG:
Quote:
From Polaris Labs, regarding FTIR oxidation test:
"Significant contamination of water, glycol, soot or fuel may affect all FTIR results. Ester-based lubricants will show high oxidation values."

here is a nice summary of FTIR analysis for oxidation, nitration, etc:
http://www.lubetrak.com/newsletter/Mar03HTML.html

"......These esters, imides and amides can interfere with the oxidation measurements of the FT-IR. For this reason, a good FT-IR program will include a reference sample of the new oil used in the application. The new oil spectrum is subtracted from the used oil to eliminate the presence of these additives. If your program is not using this new oil reference method, a comparison analysis of the new oil should be obtained, so that you will know the amount of these additives that might be interfering."
-Dennis
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:35 AM   #7
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Just for fun, in case anyone wants to check the temperature effect on viscosity changes of various oils, you can buy a dip type paint viscometer for a few bucks. All you need then is a stopwatch.

Temperatures that you can expose the oil to are: freezer, refrigerator, ambient, and if you get curious, boiling water. You can then see Newtonian viscosity stuff without all the hype. You won't see Non-Newtonian pituitivity stuff easily this way. You could try the thumb and index finger snap apart test for that. The rate of elongation depends on your reflexes.

Detonation prevention and the quality of the fuel I tweak seem to be more important, for the way I drive, than the oils I have used.




I always warm the engine oil up before hitting boost, except for emergency situations.

This is just a general thing I do, even a resonable temperatures, since the car is parked under a carport and not a heated garage.

Summers can be be hot at mid-day so a 40 has worked well, thus the use of T6 in recent years. It has been T6 with enough other oil to get a complete fill. I have used that summer and winter, and never had to change that ratio. I fill the new filter, and then the use a 30 wt to get to the upper line on the dip stick. I don't lift the vehicle when draining and filling. It is very simple for me. I am a Physical Chemist, and according to my son in laws, still very physical.

If I ran in Florida or the high desert I might do it differently. At China Lake, firing 50 cal incendiary ammo at jet fuel cans, the temps in the sun were about 130 F. These results were the beginning of the thinking about a diesel fuel additive, since combustion was more complete with the virtual elimination of black smoke. Too high a concentration and you started to get into too much shock viscosity increase and a kind of bullet proof effect which was only important as one method of pilot protection, but there are other ways to do which do not require high shear homogenizers to remove the effect. You really are in trouble with fuel that won't burn otherwise.

I had a rental car there. Also jugs of water in the trunk, for me, not the car.

I also tested 2 stroke motorcycle fuel which always requires lube content. with and without a few ppm of my diesel fuel additive. At home freezer temps it was stable from precipitation provided the concentration of additive was at the use recommendation of 10ppm. Too much and there was precipitation.

You check the engine oil at ambient temperature, refrigerator temp, freezer temp, and optionally at the temperature of boiling water. The last is not necessary, and you sure don't want pour boiling on your self.

As you all know a lot of oils are really thick at low temperatures. So the freezer test should hammer home the concept of very easy warm up of the engine before you take off like a bat out of hell. Also the oil temp lags a bit behind the oil temp. My wrx came with an oil temp gauge, so I have seen this behavior.
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Old 09-16-2011, 04:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z&cobb View Post
.....
WTF is this mess?
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Old 09-16-2011, 05:04 PM   #9
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I think he just got carried away explaining how to play backyard chemist to experiment with cold oil flow. Oh, and at the end I think it should be the oil temp lags a bit behind the coolant temp.

-Dennis
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Old 09-17-2011, 05:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenk View Post
WTF is this mess?
I got carried away describing a simple viscosity test for oil; as if anyone wanted to do that to see temperature effects on oils they use. However, I went too far and edited it.

I was surprised to see the unedited one get posted. I just let it ride since I have seen worse stuff on Nasioc.

The carried away part stems from my background. says it pretty well.
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Old 09-17-2011, 08:10 PM   #11
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our resident chemist and somewhat mad scientist z&cobb is likely the most learned contributor in these matters
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
our resident chemist and somewhat mad scientist z&cobb is likely the most learned contributor in these matters
Mad fun stuff
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by z&cobb View Post
Mad fun stuff
It was interesting, just not anything 99% of the folks here would have a notion about.

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Old 09-20-2011, 08:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenk View Post
It was interesting, just not anything 99% of the folks here would have a notion about.

Too much....

I need to play in the energetics lab, or little bit safer place day trading.
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:42 PM   #15
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Wow thanks Dennis for posting that. I am now considering Amsoil Signature Series 5W-30 for a future oil change. $10/qt direct from Amsoil but if it lasts 7500 mi it will be cheaper than Castrol Edge Syntec at $6/qt from Walmart at 3750 mi OCI.

And holy batman, that Motul goes for nearly $14/qt on Amazon!

Last edited by furiouswrx; 09-21-2011 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 09-21-2011, 02:41 PM   #16
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Check my two oldest uoa's posted above. My lead jumped to 10 on the second run of SSO. Ever since the problem with oil line screen sludging in the 2.5's, Amsoil has not recommended intervals longer than 3,750 miles in ANY Subaru turbo and the same info is still there if you look up your car in the Amsoil application guide. The Signature Series also does not have API certification if that is a concern for you. Although, I believe Amsoil addresses this on their web site.

With your screen name you should run a more furious oil. HDD 5W-30 has more zinc and phosphorus than their DEO 5W-40 diesel oil. The Dominator race oil has even more than that (although the detergent levels are too low for extended use).

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 09-21-2011 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 09-21-2011, 04:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie
Check my two oldest uoa's posted above. My lead jumped to 10 on the second run of SSO. Ever since the problem with oil line screen sludging in the 2.5's, Amsoil has not recommended intervals longer than 3,750 miles in ANY Subaru turbo and the same info is still there if you look up your car in the Amsoil application guide. The Signature Series also does not have API certification if that is a concern for you. Although, I believe Amsoil addresses this on their web site.

With your screen name you should run a more furious oil. HDD 5W-30 has more zinc and phosphorus than their DEO 5W-40 diesel oil. The Dominator race oil has even more than that (although the detergent levels are too low for extended use).

-Dennis
Well how many miles did you run those two SSOs for? 3750 mi...for an oil that is marketed to go up to 15000 mi in turbo engines. :/ I see your point though.

Yea it might say furious but I baby my car. Remember I do 90% highway at 65-70 mph, no need for race or diesel oils...maybe.
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:06 PM   #18
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7,500 and 8k miles. My turbo blew 3k miles later although I'm not saying that the oil failed. It was a "lubrication related" failure.

2011 SUBARU IMPREZA 2.5L 4-cyl Engine Code EJ255 Turbo
Lubricants & Fluids
Engine Oil
Grade 1......SMSUBARU TURBO SPECIAL MESSAGE:
Subaru has published Service Bulletin # 02-103-07 that identifies a factory design related problem with premature clogging of the oil mesh screen located inside the oiling system that supplies the turbo charger on all model turbo charged cars. A clogged screen will result in oil starvation and turbo charger failure. Subaru has reduced their recommended oil drain interval in half, as a solution, from 7,500 miles to 3,750 miles (3-3/4 months) and requires the oil mesh screen to be inspected, and possibly serviced, at every oil change. With this Subaru factory related design issue, AMSOIL INC. therefore must recommend customers follow the new Subaru oil change interval of 3,750 miles or 3-3/4 months until Subaru resolves this issue.

Amsoil says Signature Series 5W-30 is good for up to 15k miles in unmodified turbos. But they've got an "out" with the above statement even though it's outdated. JMO.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 09-21-2011 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie
7,500 and 8k miles. My turbo blew 3k miles later although I'm not saying that the oil failed. It was a "lubrication related" failure.

2011 SUBARU IMPREZA 2.5L 4-cyl Engine Code EJ255 Turbo
Lubricants & Fluids
Engine Oil
Grade 1......SMSUBARU TURBO SPECIAL MESSAGE:
Subaru has published Service Bulletin # 02-103-07 that identifies a factory design related problem with premature clogging of the oil mesh screen located inside the oiling system that supplies the turbo charger on all model turbo charged cars. A clogged screen will result in oil starvation and turbo charger failure. Subaru has reduced their recommended oil drain interval in half, as a solution, from 7,500 miles to 3,750 miles (3-3/4 months) and requires the oil mesh screen to be inspected, and possibly serviced, at every oil change. With this Subaru factory related design issue, AMSOIL INC. therefore must recommend customers follow the new Subaru oil change interval of 3,750 miles or 3-3/4 months until Subaru resolves this issue.

Amsoil says Signature Series 5W-30 is good for up to 15k miles in unmodified turbos. But they've got an "out" with the above statement even though it's outdated. JMO.

-Dennis
Thanks for the info. Sorry to hear about your turbo. I looked up TSB 02-103-07 - is that applicable to 2011 models? Or just 2004-2007 models?
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Old 09-22-2011, 07:28 AM   #20
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'04 - '07's.

-Dennis
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Old 09-22-2011, 07:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furiouswrx View Post
Thanks for the info. Sorry to hear about your turbo. I looked up TSB 02-103-07 - is that applicable to 2011 models? Or just 2004-2007 models?
When in doubt, check here:

http://stis.subaru.com/index.html

You don't have to subscribe to read the descriptions of the TSB's.

Go to Online Reference -> Pick your year, car, engine type.

Change Publication Type to Technical Service Bulletin

It will list everything that applies to your vehicle.
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:51 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie
'04 - '07's.

-Dennis
So Amsoil is referring to a TSB applying to 2004-2007 WRX/STI model years to recommend 3750 mi OCI, even for 2011s...well I guess that makes them more money, so Amsoil has no incentive to declare the issue resolved and extend the recommended OCI. Bummer, because I'm not dumping $10/ qt oil every 3750 mi.

Thanks for the link, jon. I think I'm going to have my dealer fix my squeaking tonneau cover per TSB 12-126-11 at the next oil change. Right now I just shove folded up paper into the plastic/aluminum interface to muffle the squeaks and rattles. Doesn't look very nice and the paper keeps falling out...

Last edited by furiouswrx; 09-22-2011 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 09-22-2011, 11:17 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furiouswrx View Post
So Amsoil is referring to a TSB applying to 2004-2007 WRX/STI model years to recommend 3750 mi OCI, even for 2011s...well I guess that makes them more money, so Amsoil has no incentive to declare the issue resolved and extend the recommended OCI. Bummer, because I'm not dumping $10/ qt oil every 3750 mi.

Thanks for the link, jon. I think I'm going to have my dealer fix my squeaking tonneau cover per TSB 12-126-11 at the next oil change. Right now I just shove folded up paper into the plastic/aluminum interface to muffle the squeaks and rattles. Doesn't look very nice and the paper keeps falling out...
Do you have non navi? Do you use an iPod or iPhone with the headunit? Get the iPod fix done as it enables you to see more than 255 tracks at one time.
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Old 09-22-2011, 03:49 PM   #24
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Do you have non navi? Do you use an iPod or iPhone with the headunit? Get the iPod fix done as it enables you to see more than 255 tracks at one time.
I've got the stock navi unit - it is just really wonky in the way you select playback options and album/artist/songs/etc. Makes me go every time I want to change something. Don't think there is a TSB out on that lol.

Thanks though for the TSB link - very helpful.
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