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Old 10-24-2011, 04:14 PM   #151
xluben
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Originally Posted by Shayhan27 View Post
Looks great.

Im thinking of doing this set up on a hybrid with cosworth 272's will all supporting mods.

Will only be on crappy 91 until I can get a 07 sti tranny then we will let er rip on E-85.
Well, that sounds a lot better than my setup!
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Old 10-26-2011, 01:12 PM   #152
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Well, that sounds a lot better than my setup!
Only time will tell. And by time I mean a LONG time.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:39 AM   #153
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so...ive been debating on turbos for the last year (when i found out i was getting deployed...aka able to build my car!!! lol) and about a month or 2 ago i narowed it down to a blouch 18gxt-1.5XT and everything inbetween...now this post finalized it...20GXT-R it is!!!! no i apologize as this is a long thread...but just curious if u went with the 8 or 10cm^2 housing??? and are u happy with the stock inlet over the 3"??? thats my only two debates left lol
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:00 PM   #154
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so...ive been debating on turbos for the last year (when i found out i was getting deployed...aka able to build my car!!! lol) and about a month or 2 ago i narowed it down to a blouch 18gxt-1.5XT and everything inbetween...now this post finalized it...20GXT-R it is!!!! no i apologize as this is a long thread...but just curious if u went with the 8 or 10cm^2 housing??? and are u happy with the stock inlet over the 3"??? thats my only two debates left lol
I have the 8cm housing. I believe the 2.4" inlet is sufficient and saves a lot of time/work on the install. If you go with the 3" inlet you will also need to install a new inlet hose. This generally requires removing the manifold. 3" inlets also have fitment issues with the TGV's. Even with TGV deletes it can be a tight fit. It's all up to you, but if you're looking to squeeze out extra power, you probably should just look into the Dom1.5 XTR. From what I can tell it is also an excellent option.
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:59 AM   #155
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Xluben, how is everything holding up for you?? I am still doing well and was looking at the new VF-52 compressor side with the modified hot side to replace the HTA68. Have you seen this setup at all? I forgot the damn name of the company i have to look it up, it is kinda like the HTA68 mod.
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Old 01-15-2012, 10:10 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by xluben View Post
I have the 8cm housing. I believe the 2.4" inlet is sufficient and saves a lot of time/work on the install. If you go with the 3" inlet you will also need to install a new inlet hose. This generally requires removing the manifold. 3" inlets also have fitment issues with the TGV's. Even with TGV deletes it can be a tight fit. It's all up to you, but if you're looking to squeeze out extra power, you probably should just look into the Dom1.5 XTR. From what I can tell it is also an excellent option.
hrmmm...well im swapping into an RS so the motor is already out and sitting so it wont be too much a hassle to throw it on before i bolt the mani and TGVs down...and im really not looking for anything above 400whp....so i dont think the dom is necessary...would the 3" inlet have an effect on response though?? im looking to combat the higher lag from its size...i would go smaller but i dont want my boost plummeting at top end....lol

and cant remember if u posted, but how many miles u got on her so far at this setup??? this is awesome and cant wait to finish my build...i think im gunna change my mind and try the e85 world out too...lol
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:08 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by 2011boostdwrx View Post
Xluben, how is everything holding up for you?? I am still doing well and was looking at the new VF-52 compressor side with the modified hot side to replace the HTA68. Have you seen this setup at all? I forgot the damn name of the company i have to look it up, it is kinda like the HTA68 mod.
It's is still holding up fine. I have not heard of that. I'd be curious to know what company is doing it.

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Originally Posted by Dori Ninja View Post
hrmmm...well im swapping into an RS so the motor is already out and sitting so it wont be too much a hassle to throw it on before i bolt the mani and TGVs down...and im really not looking for anything above 400whp....so i dont think the dom is necessary...would the 3" inlet have an effect on response though?? im looking to combat the higher lag from its size...i would go smaller but i dont want my boost plummeting at top end....lol

and cant remember if u posted, but how many miles u got on her so far at this setup??? this is awesome and cant wait to finish my build...i think im gunna change my mind and try the e85 world out too...lol
I don't think the size of the inlet would change response because the compressor itself is the same size. I'm not positive of that though. If you already have it all apartment, then you might as will put on a new inlet pipe. If you're thinking of pump gad then you won't even get close to 400WHP. If you're on E85 then you'll probably barely get there depending on dyno with this turbo. I have almost 5k miles on this turbo so far.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:08 PM   #158
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Compressor inlet size can effect response. The 3" acts as a velocity stack. My tuner said the manufacturer claimed 500 rpm better spool going from a 2.5 to 3" on his to4x.
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Old 01-17-2012, 01:25 PM   #159
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yeah ill go with that...lol i should be able to get it all to fit nice and neat...
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:27 PM   #160
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The car made about 20WHP more on the top end with 1psi less boost. Seems pretty good to me. Boost creep is totally gone, and that's the most important thing. I'm running it pretty conservative for now. Trying to keep power around 400WHP at the most, so I'm running less boost. Probably won't see any more dyno plots until I get the motor build done and push things a little more.

No idea which would spool faster between those two. I think the CHRA and turbine are the same, but the 1.5XT-R has a larger compressor, so it can probably make a hair more power. Adding the EBCS allows for the tuner to control partial throttle boost. At WOT the boost control all switches over to the MBC. So, you could be getting less boost at half throttle (with the EBCS vs the MBC), but that's probably a good thing from a drive-ability/safety standpoint.
If the wastegate opens when you make 19 psi of boost, then the part throttle control is pretty minimal right? The wastegate may start opening a little befor 19psi but it's more or less just closed until then. So wouldn't that be like running 100% wastegate duty until a little before 19psi?
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:15 PM   #161
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If the wastegate opens when you make 19 psi of boost, then the part throttle control is pretty minimal right? The wastegate may start opening a little befor 19psi but it's more or less just closed until then. So wouldn't that be like running 100% wastegate duty until a little before 19psi?
I think you are confusing partial throttle and partial boost. The boost response at partial throttle can be set up to be as gradual as you and your tuner would like. At WOT you are correct that you could theoretically run a 3-port EBCS only and with enough time and effort in tuning you could set up the partial boost response to be similar to how you describe.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:45 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by wildt267 View Post
Compressor inlet size can effect response. The 3" acts as a velocity stack. My tuner said the manufacturer claimed 500 rpm better spool going from a 2.5 to 3" on his to4x.
Any data to back up this point? I've yet to see anyone do a reasonable amount of testing on this particular issue
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:41 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by abrumlev

Any data to back up this point? I've yet to see anyone do a reasonable amount of testing on this particular issue
You make more power up top also.
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:22 AM   #164
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I think you are confusing partial throttle and partial boost. The boost response at partial throttle can be set up to be as gradual as you and your tuner would like. At WOT you are correct that you could theoretically run a 3-port EBCS only and with enough time and effort in tuning you could set up the partial boost response to be similar to how you describe.
I don't think I'm misunderstanding. What I'm saying is unless you are using a waste gate that opens from something other than boost and exhaust pressure then no matter how you set up the table in the ecu the waste gate is closed until 19psi. in reality it's a spring so some force will move the valve a little so it will begin to open before 19psi, but not enough that you can tune the boost response of part throttle. The exhaust pressure at part throttle will be substantially less than wot too. So what causes the waste gate to open to tune the part throttle response? The ecu does allow you to tune part throttle waste gate but if it's closed until 19 psi it's pretty pointless if you're running 22 psi. If you were using less spring pressure on the waste gate I could see tuning it better. I still like the hybrid control because if something is happening with the car and it knocks a bunch, when the iam drops it will pull boost back to waste gate pressure. Then a boost Gage tells you something is wrong without even logging.

Last edited by kakarot09; 01-18-2012 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:24 AM   #165
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You make more power up top also.
Any data to back up this point? I also haven't seen a back to back comparison or enough side by sides to see a difference. Not necessarily doubting it but I would like to be able to quantify it.
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:41 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by kakarot09

Any data to back up this point? I also haven't seen a back to back comparison or enough side by sides to see a difference. Not necessarily doubting it but I would like to be able to quantify it.
Its only logical, there is bigger area for air. More air more power.
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:50 AM   #167
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I don't think I'm misunderstanding. What I'm saying is unless you are using a waste gate that opens from something other than boost and exhaust pressure then no matter how you set up the table in the ecu the waste gate is closed until 19psi. in reality it's a spring so some force will move the valve a little so it will begin to open before 19psi, but not enough that you can tune the boost response of part throttle. The exhaust pressure at part throttle will be substantially less than wot too. So what causes the waste gate to open to tune the part throttle response? The ecu does allow you to tune part throttle waste gate but if it's closed until 19 psi it's pretty pointless if you're running 22 psi. If you were using less spring pressure on the waste gate I could see tuning it better.
I'm not sure where you came up with the 19psi number, but you do make a good point: If your wastegate spring pressure is very close to your desired peak boost, then you will have very little ability to control boost below this pressure. But, if you use a bit lighter spring, then you can get back some of that control. I have a 15psi wastegate spring in my car. I could theoretically set up the ECU to limit max boost to 16psi at 60% throttle, 18psi at 70% throttle, 20psi at 80% throttle, etc.

EDIT: I see that the 19psi number was from the first post. That is what the internal wastegate was set up at from the factory. I now have a Tial 44mm EWG installed. Being able to set the spring pressure to whatever you want is another nice feature of an EWG over more IWG's. To your original point, yes, you would have very little partial throttle boost control with a 19psi wastegate spring and a 22psi desired peak boost.
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Old 01-18-2012, 03:42 PM   #168
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Reponse from Phatron when asked about the difference between 2.4" and 3" turbo inlet.

Go to google images and search for pics and look at them. The 3" inlet is really only beneficial if you have a 3" turbo inlet. The 3" inlet still tapers to 2.4" at the compressor wheel. All the 3" inlet does is add a velocity stack to the compressor blade. The 2.4" inlet is just a straight shot to the compressor wheel.

Ive never done a direct comparison....but on pump gas it probably wouldnt even be noticable. Maxed out on race gas or e85 you may see 10whp more on the 3" inlet at high rpm since the air is a tad freeer flowing.

Thanks,
Ron Watson
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Old 01-18-2012, 04:00 PM   #169
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I'm not sure where you came up with the 19psi number, but you do make a good point: If your wastegate spring pressure is very close to your desired peak boost, then you will have very little ability to control boost below this pressure. But, if you use a bit lighter spring, then you can get back some of that control. I have a 15psi wastegate spring in my car. I could theoretically set up the ECU to limit max boost to 16psi at 60% throttle, 18psi at 70% throttle, 20psi at 80% throttle, etc.

EDIT: I see that the 19psi number was from the first post. That is what the internal wastegate was set up at from the factory. I now have a Tial 44mm EWG installed. Being able to set the spring pressure to whatever you want is another nice feature of an EWG over more IWG's. To your original point, yes, you would have very little partial throttle boost control with a 19psi wastegate spring and a 22psi desired peak boost.
Ah ok I guess I was blind or something I didn't realize you set the external to 15. That should be a bit better for what you wanted I personally don't mind the manual boost controller feel but I do like that the ecu could limit boost in the event it knocks a bunch with the hybrid setup.
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Old 01-18-2012, 04:29 PM   #170
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Reponse from Phatron when asked about the difference between 2.4" and 3" turbo inlet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron
Go to google images and search for pics and look at them. The 3" inlet is really only beneficial if you have a 3" turbo inlet. The 3" inlet still tapers to 2.4" at the compressor wheel. All the 3" inlet does is add a velocity stack to the compressor blade. The 2.4" inlet is just a straight shot to the compressor wheel.

Ive never done a direct comparison....but on pump gas it probably wouldnt even be noticable. Maxed out on race gas or e85 you may see 10whp more on the 3" inlet at high rpm since the air is a tad freeer flowing.
^I'm not sure if I explained it clearly, but this is exactly my point.

At best you will buy a turbo with a 3" inlet along with a 3" inlet tube and a 3" intake. Then you have 3" airflow all the way to the turbo, and then it necks down to 2.4" inches at the compressor wheel anyways. You may have a wider tube all the way up to the turbo, but it still usually has to go into the turbo through the same size hole to get to the compressor wheel.

With a standard 2.4" inlet you will just have a straight shot 2.4" all the way to the compressor wheel. I could see the larger piping and velocity stack possibly helping in theory, but I would think that, in practice, the difference would be so minimal you'd barely be able to notice. And to get it to fit you have to do a lot more work wedging it all into a space that it wasn't designed to fit into.

If for some reason you are truly trying to max out a stock location turbo setup, then you might as well go for it, but I would think you'd be better off just going to a rotated setup at that point. But that's just my opinion, and I'm sure some people will disagree. As long as you're aware of the installation complications when you make your decision it certainly is an option to consider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakarot09 View Post
Ah ok I guess I was blind or something I didn't realize you set the external to 15. That should be a bit better for what you wanted I personally don't mind the manual boost controller feel but I do like that the ecu could limit boost in the event it knocks a bunch with the hybrid setup.
I don't really mind the manual boost controller only either.
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:24 PM   #171
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Very nice numbers. I've been referencing this thread as a guideline towards my own build. Glad to see the motor is still holding up. How many miles have you put on the motor with this setup?
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:31 PM   #172
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Very nice numbers. I've been referencing this thread as a guideline towards my own build. Glad to see the motor is still holding up. How many miles have you put on the motor with this setup?
Thanks, but please reference this thread:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2078765

It would be easier for me if there was only one thread for me to follow.

The car has close to 5k miles on it since installing the turbo.
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