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Old 09-20-2011, 04:09 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Toyota Prices Prius Plug-in at Unexpected $32,760


The new Toyota Prius Plug-in on display at the Frankfurt Motor Show.

That means that Prius, at 15 miles per charge, will also get significantly less range than the Volt, which is rated to deliver about 35 miles per charge, on average

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Toyota delivered an unexpected surprise when it formally announced the launch of its new Prius Plug-in model, revealing it will be priced starting at $32,760, well above what the maker had initially signaled.

That’s a more than $9,000 premium for the lithium-ion-powered version of the Prius, which will be able to deliver up to about 15 miles in electric-only mode. A fully loaded version of the Prius Plug-in, meanwhile, will go for $40,285.


The new model will still be about $7,000 cheaper than the Chevrolet Volt – which is seeing its price cut by $1,005 to $39,995 for 2012, including delivery charges. But that figure can be misleading. The Volt will qualify for a full $7,500 tax credit under the federal government’s incentive program, while the new Prius Plug-in will receive only a third of that amount.
So the out-of-pocket difference between the Prius Plug-in and Volt will actually work out to only about $2,200.

The smaller, $2,500 incentive on the Prius Plug-in reflects the fact that the government program is based on the size of a vehicle’s battery pack. Toyota’s new plug-in hybrid uses a significantly smaller pack than the 16 kilowatt-hours of lithium-ion batteries in the Volt.

That means that Prius, at 15 miles per charge, will also get significantly less range than the Volt, which is rated to deliver about 35 miles per charge, on average. GM officials have claimed that the Chevrolet model, which they prefer to call an extended-range electric vehicle, can handle the daily needs of about 70% of American commuters without needing to fire up its internal combustion engine.

(Toyota reveals the new Prius Plug-in hybrid during the Frankfurt Motor Show. Click Here for more.)

Government data suggest that the Toyota Prius Plug-in will handle only about a third of commuters’ driving without using gasoline for at least some of their daily needs.

However, the Toyota model will do better than its domestic rival once it switches on the internal combustion engine, with the Plug-in rates at 44 mpg in the City, 40 on the Highway, according to the EPA.

But if fuel economy were the only factor buyers likely wouldn’t be buying a plug-in. The new model – like Volt – is aimed at motorists who want to stop using gasoline all together, so many analysts are wondering whether the Prius Plug-in really will charge up the public.

Those 15 miles on battery power, if driven even seven days a week would result in barely 2 gallons in gas saved – equal to barely $8 in weekly fuel savings, or about $400 a year. Even after working in the $2,500 federal tax credit, it would take over 20 years to make up the added cost for the Plug-in versus a regular Prius hybrid.

Meanwhile, the Prius Plug-in will have a speed limited to 62 mph on battery compared to 100 mph for Volt — though both models will achieve their best battery range at lower speeds.

So, whether buyers will be drawn to the cheaper Prius Plug-in or the higher-range Chevrolet Volt remains to be seen.

The first Toyota Prius Plug-in will reach showrooms in October, the maker initially targeting select markets in California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Maine, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Maryland and Virginia. Dealers in the rest of the country will start getting the plug-ins sometime in 2013.

Meanwhile, Toyota has also announced pricing for another model it is adding to the new Prius “family” of hybrids. The larger Prius V wagon will start at $27,925, including shipping, with a fully-loaded Prius V Five going for $30,750.

Toyota plans to add yet another model to the Prius line-up, a compact hybrid it has dubbed the Prius C. It is due for introduction next year.
The decision to price the PriusPlug-in at well over $30,000 comes as a surprise to many observers. Senior company officials had earlier hinted they would aim for a “significant” price advantage over the Volt, not a figure less than $3,000 after federal tax incentives. The final number appears to suggest that the Asian maker had to account for lopsided exchange rates that are penalizing any product now imported from Japan.
http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2011...xpected-32760/
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:13 PM   #2
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Default Banished from the H.O.V. Lane, Prius Drivers May Be First to Embrace New Plug-In Mode


http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011...er=rss&emc=rss

Quote:
Toyota announced last week that its plug-in Prius, with 15 miles of all-electric range, will cost $32,780 when it goes on sale early next year, $8,500 more than the entry-level Prius Two, which costs $24,280.

While it’s worth noting that the plug-in car is eligible for a $2,500 federal income tax credit, paying thousands of dollars extra may be a burden happily shouldered by current Prius owners who lost their privileges in California’s high-occupancy-vehicle lanes in July, when the state rescinded their eligibility for single-occupancy driving in the lanes.

Purely electric cars and trucks are eligible, as are a handful of hydrogen fuel-cell and natural-gas vehicles. The Prius plug-in, classified by California as an Enhanced Advanced Technology Partial-Zero Emission Vehicle, or EAT-PZEV, also makes the cut.

In states following California’s emissions standards, the plug-in car’s lithium-ion battery pack carries a 10-year, 150,000-mile warranty. In other states, the battery warranty will be eight years and 100,000 miles. The longer-term warranty was necessary to earn the new Prius EAT-PZEV status and consequently give its drivers access to California’s H.O.V. lanes.
That warranty stipulation prevented the 2011 Chevrolet Volt, among the most fuel-efficient vehicles on any road, from earning EAT-PZEV emissions status; the Volt has an eight-year, 100,000-mile battery warranty.
But not for much longer.

General Motors pledged last year to offer a 10-year, 150,000-mile warranty for the 2012 Volt and seek EAT-PZEV emissions status.

Rob Peterson, a G.M. spokesman, said in a telephone interview Tuesday that 2012 Volts, with the longer battery warranty would be available in California in the second quarter of next year. He added that G.M. had “no lack of confidence in the battery,” but needed to add some emissions hardware to the 2012 model before it could meet the criteria laid out by California regulators. He said that the H.O.V.-compliant Volt should be on the road “around the same time” as the Prius plug-in.

California is already the country’s strongest market for alternative-powertrain cars, including the Prius. Sam Butto, a Toyota spokesman, said that California sales accounted for one out of every four in the United States.

“When those cars were eligible for California’s H.O.V. lanes, we sold out our allotment in no time,” Mr. Butto said. “We expect that the ability to use the H.O.V. lanes will be one of the most popular reasons people will buy the Prius Plug-In Hybrid. We may sell one in three or one in four of our plug-in hybrids in California.”

According to Scott Doggett, an editor at Edmunds’ AutoObserver.com, “When the H.O.V. access for California hybrids went away, it left thousands of drivers very frustrated, because their commute times had doubled or tripled. The ability to use H.O.V. lanes is a very good marketing tool for Toyota.”

Beginning in March, Toyota’s plug-in hybrid will be sold in just 14 states, followed by a full 50-state introduction in 2013. The initial markets are California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Maine, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Maryland and Virginia.
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:13 PM   #3
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A fully battery powered vehicle can easily get 70miles per charge, they did it in the 60's and then again in the early 00's.

Why can't they just bring back the EV1 and EV2 that GM made?
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:17 PM   #4
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At that price it's just not workable as a replacement for the regular prius unless you live very close to work.

I understand the battery has to do double duty, which shortens the range, but still...
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:20 PM   #5
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:24 AM   #6
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*sneeze*
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:30 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by bubbly Bullseye View Post
A fully battery powered vehicle can easily get 70miles per charge, they did it in the 60's and then again in the early 00's.

Why can't they just bring back the EV1 and EV2 that GM made?
Buy a nissan leaf if that is what you want.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:30 AM   #8
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At that price it's just not workable as a replacement for the regular prius unless you live very close to work.

I understand the battery has to do double duty, which shortens the range, but still...
What the heck do you mean double duty?
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:41 AM   #9
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So maybe there's a good reason the Volt is so expensive? It's not looking nearly so overpriced now.
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:07 PM   #10
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Buy a nissan leaf if that is what you want.
Hey I'm just pointing out that there have been plug in cars for over 30yrs that get about 70miles to a charge. So why are they taking a step back and only getting about 1\4 that now?
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:16 PM   #11
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Perhaps the prius is priced so high just to fatten up the profit margin WHILE undercutting the volt 7000 dollars.

This could be making a ton of money on this car.
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:59 PM   #12
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While the pricing could still have been competitive against the Volt if it weren't for the government tax credit, I have to say still it seems like a rare failboat from the otherwise massively successful Toyota hybrid strategy. You have to keep in mind that on top of the difference in range, the Volt also has another huge advantage over the plug-in Prius. That it looks like the Volt, instead of the now-dime-a-dozen Prius.
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:20 PM   #13
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Um the prius gets a tax credit as well
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:42 PM   #14
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But not as much due to its smaller batter size.
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Old 09-21-2011, 02:15 PM   #15
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But not as much due to its smaller batter size.
Which is why it (prius) is cheaper (than the volt). The volt will displace far more oil with electricity which supposedly is the point of the subsidy (tax credit), but given that is the case doesn't the volt deserve a bigger tax credit?
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Old 09-21-2011, 02:16 PM   #16
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If they're going to charge that much dough for a Prius, they need to put in some seats that are not so crappy.
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Old 09-21-2011, 02:20 PM   #17
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Which is why it (prius) is cheaper (than the volt). The volt will displace far more oil with electricity which supposedly is the point of the subsidy (tax credit), but given that is the case doesn't the volt deserve a bigger tax credit?
That depends really. Once the gas engine kicks in the Prius would save more than the Volt and probably pass it up fairly quickly.

it is all in how you set up your metrics I suppose.
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Old 09-21-2011, 02:47 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
That depends really. Once the gas engine kicks in the Prius would save more than the Volt and probably pass it up fairly quickly.

it is all in how you set up your metrics I suppose.
I'd much rather they killed the battery size-based tax credits and instead just taxed the hell out of either gas, the actual thing of which they're trying to limit consumption, or carbon dioxide emssions directly. Either would make a lot more sense, and would avoid corner cases like a hypothetical 100k mi/year Prius driver +/- PHEV, etc.

Of course, it's political suicide and won't happen in my lifetime in the US.
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Old 09-21-2011, 03:19 PM   #19
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I liked the map that MotorTrend provided showing where exactly these cars would produce more CO2 than a prius. In my state (utah) it would actually produce more CO2 to charge it at my house than to just drive a Prius.
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Old 09-21-2011, 03:49 PM   #20
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I liked the map that MotorTrend provided showing where exactly these cars would produce more CO2 than a prius. In my state (utah) it would actually produce more CO2 to charge it at my house than to just drive a Prius.
That same map says the Volt in gas-only mode would produce less CO2 than using it in electric mode. That says little about the Volt or the Prius, and a lot about how crappy your electrical generation is.
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Old 09-21-2011, 06:39 PM   #21
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If they're going to charge that much dough for a Prius, they need to put in some seats that are not so crappy.
Here! here!

I freaking hate the seats. It is like a bench seat from an old pickup cut in half. I guess they are trying to keep costs down, but the interior is severely lacking IMO. Or at least was in the regular version.
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
I'd much rather they killed the battery size-based tax credits and instead just taxed the hell out of either gas, the actual thing of which they're trying to limit consumption, or carbon dioxide emssions directly. Either would make a lot more sense, and would avoid corner cases like a hypothetical 100k mi/year Prius driver +/- PHEV, etc.

Of course, it's political suicide and won't happen in my lifetime in the US.
The problem with gas tax is that it is very very regressive. It will hit the low income people way harder as a fraction of their income than those that are affluent. In fact, I think a tax code that appeals to "common sense" usually has a very undesirable outcome.
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:35 PM   #23
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Sadly, I believe as a country we MUST tax gas at a higher rate based the population per square mile. In the DC area, I see an know people who are driving cars and trucks they just shouldn't be driving based on income and distance they drive. I will always advocate a tax on gas based on population. Dense populations equal expensive gas and public transit. Rural populations equal low gas tax and big trucks.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:38 PM   #24
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people who are driving cars and trucks they just shouldn't be driving
Wow. Who made you judge?
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:43 AM   #25
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What the heck do you mean double duty?
The charge from the battery runs the start stop motor which is much more powerful than your average starter motor. It's also used much more often than a regular starter motor (obviously). Also, the battery needs to run all the electronics when the car is at "idle." All that necessitates a rather hefty reserve charge.
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