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Old 04-14-2008, 05:02 PM   #1
javastiwagon24
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Default Running the Rex with HHO. "hydrogen" injection

Before i start a rant here i just want to know if anybody knows about HHO and the affects we may gain by using it. If you guys do know about it you know 2 things. you can build the generator for basically free, it runs on water "free" and gains in gas milage. OOPS guess that was 3 things.
I am under way building a cell for my sti, I tune with RomRaider and was wondering if anybody had thought about this.
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:08 PM   #2
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mythbusters had an episode on the recently. They did substantial tests.
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Old 04-14-2008, 06:59 PM   #3
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i saw an episode but it was not like what im talking about. You can find cheap ebay kits that will work just fine. for under 200 or go to Homo Depot and build one for about 30 bucks.
The thing i'm leary on is how to tune for it. I'm told that if your car is fuel inj&d that the ecu will take care of the rest but i think its quite different with turbo and 350whp. Any clue if this would benifit on the power range.
I'm only really looking to get above 20mph anything else would be a bonus.

Anybody else curious check this quicky out, theres more on cars but this is alittle intro.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oUmlLqkUHd0&feature=related
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Old 04-14-2008, 07:00 PM   #4
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Just curious if we could squez more power out. I know a guy who runs almost pure HHO and says the block is almost cold to the touch.
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Old 04-14-2008, 09:16 PM   #5
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this sounds like this

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4934566

which as far as I can see is a load of hooey

if you were to get your 'HHO' from a source other than the cars electrical system then great, other wise this is a perpetual motion machine which =FAIL

Last edited by a6n6d6y; 04-14-2008 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:23 PM   #6
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I dont care how i get it, i have run it on a volvo wagon and a isuzu amigo both 300$ cars, seemed to work well, the isuzu never had running problems it was carb, and the volvo runs even better "my daily driver" than the carby. But my real goal is to try to cool things down and get alittle more power.
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:45 PM   #7
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Yay thanks for posting this... I'm surprised people aren't jumping on this. a co-worker wants to do the conversion on his old car. These guys here locally are doing this and I think may start selling kits:

http://www.hytechapps.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa1meqFFjjM

I'm so doing this to the WRX!!!

edit: Aquygen is now saying 2009 on the kits...
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:59 PM   #8
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Thanks for responding positive it was bound to find somebody with some knowledge. I have used this for a while and works well, its only a matter of time before somebody on here thanks me for this. Its about time to look other place's for power. Most of the places are costly and have huge disadvantages. I thought that with the power Of hydrogen that we could get a cleaner burn from the gas, making more power. I have read that it is possible to run a car on this solely and that the motor is almost cold if not completely cold to the touch.
But i am only looking for a boost in power. I like the quick spool of the vf34 and dont want to wait till 45k untill power comes on. Not to say that im trying to get that kinda power just saying that every once counts. And maybe besides clean burn and fuel economy we can find out something that would be very benificial like "safely running 30lbs of boost" LOL.
I will be removing my battery and building a custom multi cell in the battery location. My hopes are to make ridicuilous HHO production and then using some old N20 soleniods and foggers to make a progressive set up. thinking about hooking the solenoid up to the tack signal to make it open more as the revs go up. Just thoughts though have to build it first.
Car is naked right now with nothing except frame and wires. Then Off to the wide body for the Wagon.
Hopes of 450whp widebody, sti swapped, 30mph daily driver. HAHAHa
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:22 AM   #9
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OK so what is the gig here, I know what Hydrogen and Oxygen are and their relationship to water is.

Is the idea here to blow this combustible mixture(truly stoichiometric) into an engine for just its power alone (energy content) ?

Or is this ment to somehow increase the efficiency of burning gasoline in the engine ?

It takes far more energy separate water into H2+0 than you will ever be able to recover from burning it in an internal combustion engine hence post 5 never mind driving a car with the 'spare energy'

does anyone here believe that they will be able to use 'water as a fuel' in this regard ? , and if so where does the energy come from ?
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Old 04-15-2008, 01:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolingmist View Post
mythbusters had an episode on the recently. They did substantial tests.
Was it a Pass or FAIL?
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Old 04-15-2008, 02:23 PM   #11
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It was a complete failure as I recall. Myth busted.
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Old 04-15-2008, 04:27 PM   #12
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Cool post. I made a few of these generators in the past and actually put one on my Acura RSX for a brief period of time- although, I had too many kinks in the system to straighten out before it worked correct and safe. I ended up selling the car before I finished the project. I intend on doing this to another, cheaper car in the future. Look into getting a Pulse Width Modulator- it basically turns the 12 volt DC current it pulses and produces a large amount of Hydrogen and Oxygen (ebay has them). You can find a plethora of info on the web about these generators and how to build one. Also, "Fuel From Water" is a good book and something you should pick up if you're serious about this. Good luck!

p.s. Water-powered cars have been out much longer then most people would think, but some people like to keep this information suppressed because there's not any money to be made.... sick, sad, little world...
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Old 04-15-2008, 04:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
It was a complete failure as I recall. Myth busted.
Do you know who funds this show? I personally, think it's a bit biased, so of course it would be a failure. Check it out! http://waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html
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Old 04-15-2008, 04:39 PM   #14
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Here you go:

DIY Hydrobooster

http://waterpoweredcar.com/hydrobooster.html


and 1 liter in 30 sec

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_UvNH-mLPA

might have some potential

Last edited by Bad Noodle; 04-15-2008 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 04-15-2008, 04:55 PM   #15
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So many people just dont want to accept, things that are easy.
Some of you said research electrolisis. This is not true electrolisis it is a rare format which it is done by. It uses very small about of energy usually the best conditions are under 2amps and under 12-18 volts. The key is how the energy is used. From some of the best results i have seen they use a square shaped wave. that has been know to break the atomic bonds of the water.
Myth buster lover's
" i like them too" but you need to under stand that they did not take much time and research to give there evidence. U may also remember when they made a glass shatter with a signers voice. That is the same priciple as water.
1. if you saw that show. They found out the best wavelength to which glass responded 2
2. They were able to mimic it with speakers and break glass all the time

same goes for water.

1. find the frequence
2. Repeat over and over again= Lots of HHO

Now last but not least. It is not my intentions of running the car solely on HHO
More or less just to use it for
1. Complete burn of fuel
2. The added benifits of H "hindenburg"
3. The added benifit of the lose 0xegen molecules. "same as N20"

If you think it is not possible again look at this.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=u03hPyGaMFU
also check there website. They have a kit for semi's
called the silver back.
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Old 04-15-2008, 06:46 PM   #16
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I'd be more inclined to give it a fair shake if HHO's proponents were versed in physics and spelling.
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Old 04-15-2008, 07:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javastiwagon24 View Post
Now last but not least. It is not my intentions of running the car solely on HHO
More or less just to use it for
1. Complete burn of fuel
2. The added benifits of H "hindenburg"
3. The added benifit of the lose 0xegen molecules. "same as N20"
.
I would be hoping to run mine solely on HHO, gasoline is way too taxed!!
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Old 04-15-2008, 07:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
It was a complete failure as I recall. Myth busted.
I wonder if they are going to redo the testing now that so many others have done it sucessfully.
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:47 AM   #19
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Was never the spelling b winner.!!LOL
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Old 04-16-2008, 03:41 PM   #20
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Square wave or not the energy released during the oxidation of hydrogen is equal to the energy required to split it. The problem is that your internal combustion engine is not 100% efficient so if you are using your engine to drive your power source you will always be operating at a net loss.

Square wave or PWM or whatever else you want to use does not circumvent the first LAW of thermodynamics (AKA conservation of energy). When you "burn" hydrogen energy is released that energy wasn't "created" it was always there (stored), you have to put that energy back to be able to release it again it does not just "appear" by magic. There is a valid reason why this "technology" has never caught on, it is not some conspiracy.

Using solar to charge a bank of batteries would probably be the most "efficient" way of doing this. I am currently working on a project that is using a PV farm to provide energy to split water to drive a fuel cell. It's a fuel cell study and I have no access to grid power at the location otherwise it would make more sense to cut out the fuel cell and have the PV supply my electrical loads.

Jacob
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Old 04-16-2008, 03:46 PM   #21
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^ that's a good point

Water is an input
Water is the output

what is lost?
Doe some portion of water matter turn into energy?
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
^ that's a good point

Water is an input
Water is the output

what is lost?
Doe some portion of water matter turn into energy?
No energy is lost but there is a lot that will go out of the tailpipe and thus doesn't get figured back into the equation. Figure most gasoline internal combustion engines are only 20% efficient so 80% of available energy put into the engine is "lost" or rather not used to perform the designed task (spin the crankshaft). Instead it is pumped out the tailpipe, used to overcome friction, used to overcome pumping losses, or dissipated out through the coolant system. So in other words if you are using the engine to spin the alternator/generator to provide energy to crack molecules of H2O the work you will get out of the engine by injecting HHO will be less than that required to split the molecule to begin with since 80% of it is "lost". You then have to compensate for that loss through other means or burn more fuel. HHO injection could increase the overall efficiency of the combustion process but not by the magnitude required to overcome all of your losses.

No, E=mc^2 (aka the mass deficiency equation) applies to atoms not molecules (to my knowledge). It defines the energy released when an atom is split. The total mass of an atom being less than the sum of it's parts the theory is that some of that mass is "converted" to energy (referred to as binding energy) that "holds" the atom together. When the atom is split the energy is released. The "bigger" the atom the greater deficiency the more energy it releases when split. It is theoretical, the speed of light (c) was used because it is a "big" number (gets even bigger squared), since it is the "foundation" on which all atomic energy is based it is true by default.

v/r
Jacob
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Old 04-16-2008, 05:23 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javastiwagon24 View Post
So many people just dont want to accept, things that are easy.
Some of you said research electrolisis. This is not true electrolisis it is a rare format which it is done by. It uses very small about of energy usually the best conditions are under 2amps and under 12-18 volts. The key is how the energy is used. From some of the best results i have seen they use a square shaped wave. that has been know to break the atomic bonds of the water.
Myth buster lover's
" i like them too" but you need to under stand that they did not take much time and research to give there evidence. U may also remember when they made a glass shatter with a signers voice. That is the same priciple as water.
1. if you saw that show. They found out the best wavelength to which glass responded 2
2. They were able to mimic it with speakers and break glass all the time

same goes for water.

1. find the frequence
2. Repeat over and over again= Lots of HHO

Now last but not least. It is not my intentions of running the car solely on HHO
More or less just to use it for
1. Complete burn of fuel
2. The added benifits of H "hindenburg"
3. The added benifit of the lose 0xegen molecules. "same as N20"

If you think it is not possible again look at this.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=u03hPyGaMFU
also check there website. They have a kit for semi's
called the silver back.
Um... Yeah they broke the glass, they did not split the molecules apart. That is like saying "the harmonic balancer is used to keep the steel crankshaft from splitting into iron and carbon". But.. even with that said they still needed sufficient amplitude to break the glass.

v/r
Jacob
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:11 PM   #24
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What I want to see is a setup where the produced hydrogen goes back into the system to recharge the battery that is being used for the electrolysis + produce some leftover energy or hydrogen.
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:24 PM   #25
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http://hydrogengarage.com/hydrogenboost.html

this is the full kit that you can buy and install your self. I personally would not recommend this for blown cars but to but on an old beater and get awsome gas milage yes
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