Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday November 28, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Newbies & FAQs

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-23-2011, 11:54 AM   #1
ghostiegal
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 295371
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Park City, UT
Vehicle:
2011 WRX Premium 5dr
Ghostie Silver

Default Newbie needs help with Injen air intake

My check engine light is on. It's saying the system is too lean. So I heard about accessports and all that tuner stuff--except I have an Injen air intake (sorry not a Cobb).
THe advice I'm getting around here is a) take it to a custom tuner--the closest one is 500 miles away, or b) replace the Injen with a Cobb CAI and accessport.

Then another shop tells me all I need is a Hypertech programmer. Will fix the problem (not just turn off the light).
I need help. What's this hypertech tuner? Why didn't any other shops tell me about it? What gives?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
ghostiegal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 11:58 AM   #2
erik11876
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 275888
Join Date: Mar 2011
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Frederick MD
Vehicle:
2011 WRX Limited
SWP

Default

READ...THE...FAQ's. Your car's life depends on it. Revert back to stock ASAP.
erik11876 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 12:02 PM   #3
Dunzie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 294883
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Jersey
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
Satin White Pearl

Default

Wow dude you need to read up on stuff before you start modding. That intake will **** up your brand new car real good if you don't tune it.
Dunzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 12:05 PM   #4
ghostiegal
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 295371
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Park City, UT
Vehicle:
2011 WRX Premium 5dr
Ghostie Silver

Default

so accessports are no good?
ghostiegal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 12:07 PM   #5
ghostiegal
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 295371
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Park City, UT
Vehicle:
2011 WRX Premium 5dr
Ghostie Silver

Default

or what about the SPT air intake? I heard because Subaru makes those it won't throw the CEL.
ghostiegal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 12:38 PM   #6
Dunzie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 294883
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Jersey
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
Satin White Pearl

Default

First of all take our advice about reading.

Secondly, yes you need an accessport or opensource tune if you have any kind of air intake on our cars.

Thirdly, they don't make SPT intakes for 2011s.
Dunzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 12:41 PM   #7
Unabomber
Big Ron
Moderator
 
Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:
on car parts so PM
me b4 j00 buy

Default

You need to RESEARCH, then modify. And stop listening to anyone that says Hypertech as they make ZERO products for Subaru, so whoever said that is a moron.
Unabomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 12:41 PM   #8
dazedone
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 173938
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Oregon
Vehicle:
06 sti
matte black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostiegal View Post
or what about the SPT air intake? I heard because Subaru makes those it won't throw the CEL.
This is true but the the power gains you will get from a cobb intake will also not be much. because the ecu will throw a cell if it must correct the MAF values more then about 8-10%, so if a intake doesn't throw a cell. less then 10% more air is entering the engine when a good intake like the one you have will allow more like 15-20% more air to enter the engine.

To add a car that hasn't already been modded to stage two will see much less TQ/HP gains because there is so much restriction in the exhaust systems down pipe.

Really if a intake is going to be added it should be done at the same time as exhaust so the money you spend for a pro tune is best spent.

stage2 other good parts
turbo inlet tube
fuel pump
injectors
thermal manifold spacers

stage2 modds
port waistgate
100% MOST IMPORTANT IS A GOOD TUNE !

Modding takes time for us people who don't have unlimited resources (money). The best thing you can do for the next 6 months to a year is make you payments, save money and study up on your car if you plan to do the modding your self. doing things right the first time with this engine is a must and will save you needing a new motor in the future.

For example a nice new turbo kit and a new engine cost about the same amount of money. I personally would much rather spend my money on making my car better not replacing stuff it already has.

Peace and good luck
dazedone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 12:59 PM   #9
brew02wrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 259970
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: brewster, NY
Vehicle:
2002 wrx cobb stg2+
psm proper fitment

Default

take intake off, put stock intake on.....done or else say goodbye to your new car


do not mod anymore until you search around this site and do some reading and gain some knowledge

ps: any intake put on your car without a tune WILL throw a CEL because they ALL cause lean conditions
brew02wrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 01:07 PM   #10
tablesandchairs
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 294641
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default

Yeah, while intakes are logical on other cars they aren't on subarus. Removing it and using the money to get something better is more better.
tablesandchairs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 01:20 PM   #11
ghostiegal
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 295371
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Park City, UT
Vehicle:
2011 WRX Premium 5dr
Ghostie Silver

Default

ok i'm having the stock put back on for now.
ghostiegal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 01:42 PM   #12
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazedone View Post
This is true but the the power gains you will get from a cobb intake will also not be much. because the ecu will throw a cell if it must correct the MAF values more then about 8-10%, so if a intake doesn't throw a cell. less then 10% more air is entering the engine when a good intake like the one you have will allow more like 15-20% more air to enter the engine.
Intakes don't throw CELs because they allow more air to enter the engine. They throw CELs because they throw off the relationship between air flow and MAF voltage, so the ECU can no longer correctly monitor the amount of air that's entering the engine. A good, high flowing intake could just as easily make the car run rich as it could lean. It has zero bearing on how good the intake is or how well it flows, and it has everything to do with the specific bends used and how they affect the air flow pattern around the MAF sensor.
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 01:58 PM   #13
Heeltoeclutch
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 222715
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego/Clarkston, MI
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Satin White Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostiegal View Post
ok i'm having the stock put back on for now.
Good move. Welcome to the community.

In short, you can think of it like this: putting ANY intake on a subaru confuses it because it's getting more air than the ECU expects, which creates a lean condition, which is bad. You MUST retune the car when installing an intake. There are a few common ways to do this.

- Cobb Accessport
- Open source tune - (DIY with a laptop, easy and fun)
- Go to a shop.

Once you retune for the intake, you will achieve GREATER power gains as well as a well-running, safe car.

Please do more research before you injure your car. Here is a link to the tuning section.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80
Heeltoeclutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 03:20 PM   #14
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
In short, you can think of it like this: putting ANY intake on a subaru confuses it because it's getting more air than the ECU expects, which creates a lean condition
Read the post directly above yours. It has absolutely nothing to do with the lower restriction allowing more air into the engine than the ECU "expects". The ECU doesn't expect anything, it makes absolutely no predictions about how much air flow you should have. It MEASURES the ACTUAL air flow. You can't confuse it by adding more air, because it would just measure more air and add the fuel for it. You can confuse it, however, by altering the air flow pattern and screwing up the calibration of the MAF sensor, so that the measured air flow no longer matches the actual air flow. This is what an aftermarket intake does, and it's equally likely to cause the engine to run rich as it is lean, either of which are dangerous in excess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
- Cobb Accessport
- Open source tune - (DIY with a laptop, easy and fun)
- Go to a shop.
Again, no. The AP and OS are tuning architectures/tools, not tuning solutions. If you go to a shop, they'll still be tuning the car via the AP or OS. Also, OS is no more "DIY" than an AP is. There is no requirement to tune the car yourself with either architecture, and there is just as much freedom to tune the car yourself with either if you do choose to go that route.

It's AP vs OS, and with EITHER platform you can choose to tune it yourself, run an off-the-shelf tune, a custom internet tune, or a professional road/dyno tune.
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 03:56 PM   #15
rkramer
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 118209
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: North Dakota
Vehicle:
2015 WRX Limitec

Default

before the suicidal eggroll explodes, I'll take a whack at simplifying the explanation!

The MAF only measures the air passing through a very specific point inside the tube. ALL intakes are going to have different air patterns, it is impossible to get a perfect laminar flow where the air is moving at the same speed at every spot.

Now keep that in mind when you swap to a different intake. It is going to cause the air to swirl around differently. It might put the MAF into a high velocity spot, which will cause the engine to run rich. It might also put the MAF in a low velocity area, so the ECU thinks there is far less air going in. (and will end up running lean)

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INCREASED AIRFLOW!
rkramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 05:04 PM   #16
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer View Post
before the suicidal eggroll explodes, I'll take a whack at simplifying the explanation!

The MAF only measures the air passing through a very specific point inside the tube. ALL intakes are going to have different air patterns, it is impossible to get a perfect laminar flow where the air is moving at the same speed at every spot.

Now keep that in mind when you swap to a different intake. It is going to cause the air to swirl around differently. It might put the MAF into a high velocity spot, which will cause the engine to run rich. It might also put the MAF in a low velocity area, so the ECU thinks there is far less air going in. (and will end up running lean)

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INCREASED AIRFLOW!
lol - yes that's correct
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 05:34 PM   #17
Byzantium
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 207826
Join Date: Apr 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Katabatic
Vehicle:
85k 2002 WRX
Correct Fitment Crew #034

Default

I lol'ed because Heeltoeclutch told the OP that he should DIY tune his own car.
Byzantium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 05:44 PM   #18
NoGraffix
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 276209
Join Date: Mar 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Windy City
Vehicle:
I am Rub
Function>Form

Default

To scale a MAF with OS isn't that difficult...


But that comment made me smile too
NoGraffix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 04:36 AM   #19
dazedone
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 173938
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Oregon
Vehicle:
06 sti
matte black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
Intakes don't throw CELs because they allow more air to enter the engine. They throw CELs because they throw off the relationship between air flow and MAF voltage, so the ECU can no longer correctly monitor the amount of air that's entering the engine. A good, high flowing intake could just as easily make the car run rich as it could lean. It has zero bearing on how good the intake is or how well it flows, and it has everything to do with the specific bends used and how they affect the air flow pattern around the MAF sensor.
Ok, sorry I was a little off. I was trying to simplify to make it easer to under stand. Its not an easy thing to explain or comprehend. I went to tech school, have been reading your guide, and other reading related to tuning stuff (o and tuning my car)for years,and I obviously still don't fully understand! Im sure how you said it is 100% accurate, but will a guy that just through a intake on his car have any idea what you are talking about ?
not to say you don't seem smart op in fact the opposite you seem very with it.
and since no one has dropped it http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1626520
if you want to know more read this ^ Im not saying to tune your own car but if you start studying now in a year or two maybe

Last edited by dazedone; 09-27-2011 at 04:43 AM.
dazedone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 12:13 PM   #20
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazedone View Post
Ok, sorry I was a little off. I was trying to simplify to make it easer to under stand. Its not an easy thing to explain or comprehend. I went to tech school, have been reading your guide, and other reading related to tuning stuff (o and tuning my car)for years,and I obviously still don't fully understand! Im sure how you said it is 100% accurate, but will a guy that just through a intake on his car have any idea what you are talking about ?
Simplifying things is fine, but not when you simplify it to the point that what you're saying is 100% wrong. Sure you might convince him that he needs to tune for the intake, at the expense of throwing off his understanding of how the entire fueling system in the car works. That's not a good tradeoff, and just goes to propagate this ridiculous misunderstanding (which is very similar to the misunderstanding that raising the boost will make you run lean because there's more air than the ECU "expects", or lowering the boost will make you run rich for the opposite reason...ugh).
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 12:46 PM   #21
Davenow
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23676
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: de_dust and Orgrimar
Vehicle:
.

Default

I normally would say a CAI is fine, just tune for it.


But not in this case. INJEN intakes have always been some of the worst possible choices for a Subaru. They, in particular, over any other intake, have the most problems.


So get rid of it. Bitch slap whoever told you to buy it. Then go buy the AEM, or some other intake that actually works well. You dont HAVE to tune for every intake, some work fine without it. But its never a bad idea. And on some, you have to.

But the problems that INJEN intakes have on our cars, cant usually be tuned around.
Davenow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 01:14 PM   #22
dazedone
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 173938
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Oregon
Vehicle:
06 sti
matte black

Default

Ok grams per sec is a measurement of air flow isn't it and the maf voltage is how the ecu understands this measurement right? because saying there is 23 gps means nothing to a computer so a voltage is assigned to that gps so the ecu knows the amount of air entering the engine

I know that where the air coming in is metered can change the speed that the air is traveling because of bends in the piping and such so the needed correction could be +or - at the same voltage as the stock intake

This correction is made by the metered AFR right? meaning that when the ecu sees that the AFR is off. A correction percentage is added to the MAF's GPS for that voltage. To adjust the AFR to match the fueling tables and these corrections are being made constantly because the AFR can change with small changes in atmospheric pressure, temp, and humidity.

Im trying to make sure I understand this is properly so I appreciate your help
dazedone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 01:33 PM   #23
Davenow
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23676
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: de_dust and Orgrimar
Vehicle:
.

Default

The diameter of the MAF housing being different isnt the only problem. And in the case of the INJEN intakes, its almost never the only problem. INJENS have leak issues, they have MAF placement issues (which is INCREDIBLY important, and CANNOT be tuned around) and general build quality issues. They are generally poorly designed to begin with as well. Look at the old AEM cais. They were HORRIBLE, some of the worst on the market. Then they moved the MAF back 4" in the tube, and it became one of the best on the market. ZERO changes other than that, MAF diameter was unchanged.


There was a big intake shootout a couple years ago, the injen intake was the hardest to tune for, and the tuner was never able to get it 100% stable, and even at its best, it had some of the lowest gains (because the tune had to be so whacky to make it run even close to correctly)
Davenow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 01:35 PM   #24
ghostiegal
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 295371
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Park City, UT
Vehicle:
2011 WRX Premium 5dr
Ghostie Silver

Default

Thanks for all the information. It's been helpful for sure. I'm eventually going to get a different CAI put on and have it tuned properly. I've been reading a lot on this forum about which brand to get and how each of them might be better than the others. I'm still learning for sure. The ones that people on this forum seem to like are AEM and Cobb. I will do more research and make an educated decision. Of course, your opinions on which one to get are definitely appreciated.
Thanks again.
ghostiegal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 01:37 PM   #25
Davenow
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23676
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: de_dust and Orgrimar
Vehicle:
.

Default

And the fact that ANYONE recommended a hypertech, shows how little they know about Subaru's. (hell, ANY car. Hypertechs suck on F-bodys and Mustangs too) There is a reason no one uses hypertechs on our cars.

You need to stop listening to whoever is telling you to buy this crap, and find a new shop. Come here and ask before you spend ANY more money. In the meanwhile, put your stock intake back on and ebay that injen. Dont be a dick and sell it to a good member of nasioc
Davenow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3 hours with no answers! Help with cold air intake! pjloyd Newbies & FAQs 4 07-25-2010 03:03 PM
newbie needs help with mods SoareS Newbies & FAQs 23 08-31-2005 01:05 PM
newbie, need help with cheapest swap please speeddmn14 Newbies & FAQs 1 06-08-2005 11:01 AM
Newbie needs help with subarooooo Baja Forum 13 11-18-2004 12:02 AM
Help, Please!!! Newbie needs help with SRV303 install! mhelouin Car Audio, Video & Security 0 06-14-2003 06:12 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.