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Old 08-04-2002, 09:16 AM   #1
Dr.Outback
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Default Anybody try manifold insulators?

I was reading about them on this site http://www.autospeed.com/A_0401/page1.html

Has anybody tryed them? I emailed the company on pricing and they said with throttle body insulators and other necessary hardware the kits are in the $100 range. The article makes them sound pretty good.
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Old 08-04-2002, 09:56 AM   #2
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sounds pretty good....I'd give them a shot.


as a side note though, they don't really go into detail about their phenolic material..
Phenolics are like the basic building block of millions of other things, composites, polymers, adhesives, etc etc in everything from helicopter rotor blades, to fiberboard cabinets, to anything made out of plastic...

phenolics are like the bonding matrix usually for some other material, like urethane, carbon fibers, or whatever... so what I'm saying is, in these manifold insulators, what exactly is the phenolic based material bonded with?????? Theres got to be at least a hundred different kinds of phenol based materials out there.... its kind of important to know when you are looking for something that is going to last a long time,

oh yeah, and not give off any toxic fumes/substances when exposed to prolong heat.

sorry I kind of sound like a freak, but I work as an environmental scientist, and get paid to detect phenol and alkaline-phenol compound contamination in soil and water samples; so they can be cleaned up.. they are toxic to the whole ecosystem deal.

but for the most part I'm sure these are very tried and true and I'd go for it. carry on
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Old 08-04-2002, 12:00 PM   #3
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they would only be for my '84 GL with 2Bbl Weber carb. With carbs I don't think it is good to use them because the carb might get so cold it freezes.
I just posted it as an FYI. If I had FI I would probably use them.


Cujo31... you know a lot more then I do about plastics.
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Old 08-04-2002, 01:18 PM   #4
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'phenolic resin' spacers come stock on many motors at the manifold to carb junction, to keep some heat out of the carb and avoid heat-soaking the fuel. They also usually have some kind of de-icer for the carb too, like some hot air piped from the exhaust manifold heatshield or wherever. As I recall, it's not reinforced with a fiber or anything, it's just a high-temp stable resin that's resistant to heated gasoline vapors. Go ahead and use 'em, shouldn't be any downside.
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Old 08-04-2002, 05:40 PM   #5
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There was a thread somewhere in the Classified section of the board, where someone was selling these. (I'm lazy...you do the search) HndaTch627 is supposed to be buying a set of these. If he ever gets them installed, I'll ask what he thinks of them.
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Old 08-04-2002, 07:08 PM   #6
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subachad makes these for $70...pm him, we are trying to get a group thing going. I am on the list.

jeremy
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Old 08-04-2002, 07:44 PM   #7
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They are actually $60, I have about 5 sets left of the first batch that I can sell. Shipping to the "48" will be $5. As for a time frame, I'm supposed to pick them up Monday the 5th.

The phenolic material used can withstand up to about 270 degrees F for an extended period of time.


Here is a link for you.

http://www.uniquemotorsports.com/pro...ic_spacers.htm

Thanks,
Chad
93 1.8T
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Old 08-04-2002, 09:28 PM   #8
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im kinda interseted... but being that i never heard of such a thing, im kinda skeptical about it. Kinda like iridium tip plugs.
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Old 08-04-2002, 10:41 PM   #9
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the spacers do indeed work, they have been used for years in SB Chevy's between the carb base and manifold to keep the carbs from heat soaking, they also use them quite often on honda's to space the intake away from the head.

Chad-i tried finding the thread to bump it, i want to get that buy going. PM me with your paypal address.

jeremy
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Old 08-05-2002, 12:22 AM   #10
Patrick Olsen
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Phenolic spacers have also been used for years in the 5.0L Mustang crowd. I'll be honest, I've never seen any sort of dyno or drag strip comparison, so I don't know how effective they are, but the idea makes good engineering sense.

One thing I'd be interested in seeing is how the use of the spacers affects the torque curve of the engine. Using the spacers will create longer runners, which generally improves torque at the expense of some top end power.

Chad - I'm assuming you're selling just the spacers themselves? Or will this be some sort of "kit" including gaskets and the longer fasteners needed?

Also, I vaguely recall reading that the SOHC and DOHC 2.5L intakes are not interchangeable, although they look nearly identical. As I recall, the bolt pattern at the heads is opposite. Am I out to lunch on this?

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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Old 08-05-2002, 04:46 AM   #11
HndaTch627
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Quote:
[i]

Also, I vaguely recall reading that the SOHC and DOHC 2.5L intakes are not interchangeable, although they look nearly identical. As I recall, the bolt pattern at the heads is opposite. Am I out to lunch on this?

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan [/b]
pat IIRC you are correct, the bolt patterns on phase 1's are different from that of phase 2's. But i don't think it'd be too hard to make a few different sets. I forgot the mustang guys used them as well. It has no relevance but in the LT-1 by disconnected the preheater for the throttle body(prevents throttle plate icing) they made 12 more HP @ the wheels IIRC...amazing what a lil hot air can do isn't it?

jeremy
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Old 08-05-2002, 11:50 AM   #12
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Perhaps a 2.2 version will become available? That would cover quite a range of vehicles.
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Old 08-05-2002, 12:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by ciper
Perhaps a 2.2 version will become available? That would cover quite a range of vehicles.

These things cost me about $300 to make and you are the only one who has asked about a 2.2L version. That said, It's not much of a priority right now.

Next on the list would be for a WRX.

As for the spacing, if they don't fit, I'll just have to take them back. Has anyone ever compared different gaskets for different versions of the EJ25?

Chad
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Old 08-05-2002, 01:51 PM   #14
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hey chad i'll take a look whe i get mine.

jeremy
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Old 08-05-2002, 08:47 PM   #15
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Hi all,

There was a little problem with the production. More specifically, the bolt hole part of the spacers did not cut well.

That said, I have to order a new sheet of phenolic for them to cut. Sorry, but it might not be until Thursday or Friday of this week.

Thanks,
Chad
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Old 08-05-2002, 10:52 PM   #16
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So can we still order? who should we send paypal to? MY99 RS for me Phase II
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Old 08-06-2002, 06:49 PM   #17
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So far I'm sending out 6 sets, which should leave me with 3 or 4. I'd like to hold off though before selling any more at least until some of the sold items are installed.

Hondatch will post some info once he gets his.

Thanks,
Chad
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Old 08-06-2002, 08:11 PM   #18
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I repeat...
Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Olsen
Chad - I'm assuming you're selling just the spacers themselves? Or will this be some sort of "kit" including gaskets and the longer fasteners needed?
Also, I just went and looked at the bolt pattern for my intake where it joins the heads (and where these spacers would go). There is one bolt on each side of each runner. As you view the engine from the front of the car, the bolts are at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock positions relative to each runner. If someone could check their SOHC intake bolt pattern we could determine whether or not they are different - I'm pretty sure the SOHC intake has the bolts located diagonally on each runner.

Pat
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Old 08-07-2002, 12:00 AM   #19
subachad
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Sorry, that's my bad. The spacers are alone. 1/4" is not enough to require longer bolts.

Thanks,
Chad
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Old 08-19-2002, 04:59 PM   #20
Patrick Olsen
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Any update on this? Has anyone actually installed/tested these yet?

On the bolt pattern issue, I confirmed that the SOHC and DOHC intakes do use different ones. A 30-second sketch:

Which bolt pattern was this batch made for?

I just thought up another issue that I think is worth thinking about. Using these spacers will alter the position of the fuel injectors relative to the intake valves. I'll be honest, I don' t know if that's a big deal or not, but I would think that injector placement is something Subaru tunes to ensure proper fuel-air mixing before/as the charge enters the combustion chamber. Will having the injectors 1/4" higher cause them to spray onto the wall of the intake runner rather than onto the back of the intake valves? Will the new position cause the fuel to be injected into a spot where the air flow is turbulent vice laminar or vice versa? Hmmmm.....

Pat
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Old 08-19-2002, 05:17 PM   #21
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Being local to ya.....kinda I might be up for a little guinee pigging
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Old 08-20-2002, 03:15 AM   #22
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The bolt pattern (judging by your picture) is for the SOHC version.

Sorry it's taking so long guys, but so far, out of two sheets of phenolic I thought we had 2 sets of spacers. Unfortunately while drilling out the bolt holes, I damaged one of the spacers which only leaves one set. Sorry Jeremy, but you'll have to wait for the next batch. That one set cost me about $200

Hopefully the next batch will have some better results.

Thanks,
Chad
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Old 08-20-2002, 04:21 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by subachad
The bolt pattern (judging by your picture) is for the SOHC version.

Sorry it's taking so long guys, but so far, out of two sheets of phenolic I thought we had 2 sets of spacers. Unfortunately while drilling out the bolt holes, I damaged one of the spacers which only leaves one set. Sorry Jeremy, but you'll have to wait for the next batch. That one set cost me about $200

Hopefully the next batch will have some better results.

Thanks,
Chad
it's allright, i did something in the mean time which cut down Intake Air Temps significantly no rush.

jeremy
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Old 08-20-2002, 09:29 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by HndaTch627
it's allright, i did something in the mean time which cut down Intake Air Temps significantly no rush.

jeremy
What did you do? If it cools down the intake air significantly, then I wanna do it too!

D.
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Old 08-20-2002, 10:37 AM   #25
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I don't know what Jeremy did, but I recently put a valve in the coolant line that feeds the throttle body. I will have to open it a little in the winter, but I can still turn it off when I want the max performance. I cant give any numbers, but my throttle body is much cooler now to the touch.
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