Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday July 30, 2016
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-04-2011, 11:57 AM   #1
rsholland
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5769
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Ellicott City, MD, USA
Vehicle:
'09 WRX Prem 5-dr
Dark Gray

Default Subaru to ditch the Toyota hybrid system, and go with their own

I'm surprised no one has posted this before, as it's been in the news for several days now. If it has been posted, I haven't found it.

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/09/29...t-toyota-tech/

Quote:
2013 gas-electric Subaru to feature mild hybrid setup, not Toyota's tech
By Eric LovedayRSS feed
Posted Sep 29th 2011 1:00PM


There's no questioning that Toyota dominates the hybrid vehicle segment. So of course Subaru wants to ditch Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive technology in favor of its in-house-developed mild hybrid system for the automaker's first-ever hybrid vehicle.

According to Just Auto and contrary to expectations, that's the route Subaru will reportedly follow with its scheduled-to-launch-in-2013 hybrid vehicle. The model has not been named, but the new hybrid will most likely be the Legacy and will launch in Japan. Some reports continue to speculate that either the Impreza or Legacy will be first in line to get the gas-electric tech here in the States in 2014.

Back in 2009, Subaru displayed the Hybrid Tourer, a project it worked on with Toyota, at the Tokyo Motor Show. That concept, which never made it to production, used a direct injected version of Subaru's 2.0-liter turbo boxer engine. Maybe Subaru's classic "hybrids are not worth the money" video was more descriptive of the company's mindset than anyone knew.
Bob
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
rsholland is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-04-2011, 02:48 PM   #2
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Mars
Vehicle:
2013 Subaru BRZ
Galaxy Blue

Default

LOL, so basically they are going to use the one they developed a few years ago for that concept?
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 03:52 PM   #3
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 67
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
1999 Outlasting
the competition.

Default

just bring the F'N diesel here and be done with it.
tom@kartboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 03:58 PM   #4
rsholland
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5769
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Ellicott City, MD, USA
Vehicle:
'09 WRX Prem 5-dr
Dark Gray

Default Not sure I like the "mild" aspect

I would think a full-boogie hybrid is the way to go. Here's a link describing mild hybrids:

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/04/30...a-mild-hybrid/

Sounds like costs drove this decision.

Bob
rsholland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 04:12 PM   #5
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Mars
Vehicle:
2013 Subaru BRZ
Galaxy Blue

Default




Honestly, if someone wised up and paired this with the Diesel motor, it would be pretty darn good.
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 04:15 PM   #6
grzydj
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 84984
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza 2.5i 5D
'04 Toyota Tacoma TRD

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
just bring the F'N diesel here and be done with it.
I've been emailing Subaru about this subject so much that it is probably bordering on harassment.
grzydj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 04:16 PM   #7
rsholland
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5769
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Ellicott City, MD, USA
Vehicle:
'09 WRX Prem 5-dr
Dark Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post



Honestly, if someone wised up and paired this with the Diesel motor, it would be pretty darn good.
I agree. I'm concerned if it's a mild (gas) hybrid, the car may get around 40 mpg. Heck, there are non-hybrids getting that kind of mileage now.

Bob
rsholland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 04:19 PM   #8
JazzyJake
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153476
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Western Mass
Vehicle:
2005 VF39 6spd FXT
Aspen White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
just bring the F'N diesel here and be done with it.
Yes please!! I'd love a turbodiesel forester as a daily!
JazzyJake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 04:34 PM   #9
HB_Dad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 45190
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Huntington Beach/Ramona, CA
Vehicle:
2014 Impreza Sport L
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post



Honestly, if someone wised up and paired this with the Diesel motor, it would be pretty darn good.
Agreed, especially since Impreza is getting 36MPG WITHOUT hybrid, the yield from the hybrid needs to get around 50MPGs at least to be worthwhile...
HB_Dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 06:01 PM   #10
ejicon
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2452
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Burbank,California, USA
Vehicle:
08 2.5 WRX
WRB Mica

Default

I betting this joint venture coupe project between Toyota & Subaru isn't going COMPLETELY well by the looks of this. You would think Subaru and Toyota would start selling both cars at their dealerships but I guess not.
ejicon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 06:04 PM   #11
GuyLR
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21811
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Wag/01 OBS
WRB and SM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HB_Dad View Post
Agreed, especially since Impreza is getting 36MPG WITHOUT hybrid, the yield from the hybrid needs to get around 50MPGs at least to be worthwhile...
The trouble with 36 mpg in a gas only Impreza is that nobody will actually get that much. Realistically, they'll probably be lucky to break 30 in a typical mixed urban driving loop. That's where a hybrid could really make a difference even if it only gets 41 city and 38 highway (10 less than a Prius) With that kind of mileage you're looking at over a 33% increase in fuel economy. It might even improve performance if they keep the hybrid tuned FB20 at 135-140 hp.

Guy
GuyLR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 08:10 PM   #12
JustyWRC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:
2005 Baja Turbo
06 Forester 04 Forester

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyLR View Post
The trouble with 36 mpg in a gas only Impreza is that nobody will actually get that much. Realistically, they'll probably be lucky to break 30 in a typical mixed urban driving loop. That's where a hybrid could really make a difference even if it only gets 41 city and 38 highway (10 less than a Prius) With that kind of mileage you're looking at over a 33% increase in fuel economy. It might even improve performance if they keep the hybrid tuned FB20 at 135-140 hp.

Guy

My wife(and I when I occasionally get to drive it) get 24 combined MPGs on our 09 WRX. I think people are going to be seeing 32 to 33 combined on the new Impreza.

This new Impreza is getting 36. We know this. Without DI and without any hybrid system. Put both of those on and my guess would be 45ish. Not great I agree; but, to me, it would depend on how much more they would charge.
JustyWRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 11:05 PM   #13
randomelement2
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 256136
Join Date: Aug 2010
Default

I'm trying to figure out why Toyota bought a percentage of Subaru. When you think of car companies working together, there's lots of parts sharing to reduce costs. What major things are these 2 sharing? Engines, nope. Platforms, uh-uh. And apparently not a hybrid system either. I didn't forget the upcoming sports coupes, but I'm sure that Toyota's interest in Subaru isn't based on a low volume model. Can anyone enlighten me?
randomelement2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2011, 12:08 AM   #14
keepclam
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 120244
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Everett, WA
Vehicle:
2006 Legacy SE Sedan
2006 Pilot EX-L 4WD

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejicon View Post
I betting this joint venture coupe project between Toyota & Subaru isn't going COMPLETELY well by the looks of this. You would think Subaru and Toyota would start selling both cars at their dealerships but I guess not.
What does the difficult-to-match-up hybrid systems have to do with the RWD coupe? And Subaru and Toyota ARE both selling the coupe at their respective dealerships.

This partnership already seems to be more productive than with GM, but I'm glad to see Subaru remain independent-minded. They're making money producing Camrys, have studied Toyota's methods to gain efficiencies that have helped keep Subaru's costs down, have outsourced their unprofitable kei-car production (a mixed bag) to Toyota allowing focus of precious resources elsewhere, and maybe they're able to take advantage of some economy-of-scale parts purchases (though I don't know).
keepclam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2011, 12:14 AM   #15
keepclam
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 120244
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Everett, WA
Vehicle:
2006 Legacy SE Sedan
2006 Pilot EX-L 4WD

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by randomelement2 View Post
I'm trying to figure out why Toyota bought a percentage of Subaru. When you think of car companies working together, there's lots of parts sharing to reduce costs. What major things are these 2 sharing? Engines, nope. Platforms, uh-uh. And apparently not a hybrid system either. I didn't forget the upcoming sports coupes, but I'm sure that Toyota's interest in Subaru isn't based on a low volume model. Can anyone enlighten me?
Well, the typical reason to invest in a company is to make money. Just by being a profitable company, Subaru is making money for shareholder Toyota. FHI's engineers and production capacity were probably also appealing, and I recall Toyota studied Subaru's assembly process to become more efficient (surprisingly backwards from what you'd expect). This partnership is still pretty new to show a whole lot of fruits on the consumer side of things.
keepclam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2011, 09:13 AM   #16
Furiousd1983
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 295099
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Straight outta Shompton
Vehicle:
2013 Not so Hot HB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post



Honestly, if someone wised up and paired this with the Diesel motor, it would be pretty darn good.
I know this is pipe dreaming but the ultimate would be an Audi Group TDI mated to Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive. Although they would have to keep the HPFP from self destructing!
Furiousd1983 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2011, 10:25 AM   #17
b4wantab
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21293
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Oak Park, IL
Vehicle:
05 OB Black Bean
1969 W-30

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by randomelement2 View Post
I'm trying to figure out why Toyota bought a percentage of Subaru. When you think of car companies working together, there's lots of parts sharing to reduce costs. What major things are these 2 sharing? Engines, nope. Platforms, uh-uh. And apparently not a hybrid system either. I didn't forget the upcoming sports coupes, but I'm sure that Toyota's interest in Subaru isn't based on a low volume model. Can anyone enlighten me?
Toyota needed Camry production capacity. SOA got access to Toyota's bulk pricing on parts; switches, sensors, etc. It is a win-win for both.

What is the problem with SOA and Diesel? SOA Blog any insight?

Peace,

Greg
b4wantab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2011, 12:07 PM   #18
JustyWRC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:
2005 Baja Turbo
06 Forester 04 Forester

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
Well, the typical reason to invest in a company is to make money. Just by being a profitable company, Subaru is making money for shareholder Toyota. FHI's engineers and production capacity were probably also appealing, and I recall Toyota studied Subaru's assembly process to become more efficient (surprisingly backwards from what you'd expect). This partnership is still pretty new to show a whole lot of fruits on the consumer side of things.
This is what was told to me at the plant when I took the tour.
JustyWRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2011, 12:09 PM   #19
keepclam
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 120244
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Everett, WA
Vehicle:
2006 Legacy SE Sedan
2006 Pilot EX-L 4WD

Default

SOA Blog has said their research indicates market conditions don't warrant bringing the diesel, but they'll continue monitoring the demand.
keepclam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2011, 04:08 PM   #20
JustyWRC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:
2005 Baja Turbo
06 Forester 04 Forester

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
SOA Blog has said their research indicates market conditions don't warrant bringing the diesel, but they'll continue monitoring the demand.

As long as what is brought to the states is a better version. A bit more power and fuel economy. The extra cost of the diesel over a non-diesel would be a deterrent. Plus an automatic of course.
JustyWRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 07:08 AM   #21
gotsol
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17346
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: All Over NC
Vehicle:
08 Cayman S
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
SOA Blog has said their research indicates market conditions don't warrant bringing the diesel, but they'll continue monitoring the demand.
yeah that's the market condition

Soaring Sales of Diesel Cars Support Higher Platinum Prices

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2730...latinum-prices


Truth: SOA can't/won't put the R&D into getting it certified for USA emissions.
gotsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 08:23 AM   #22
b4wantab
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21293
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Oak Park, IL
Vehicle:
05 OB Black Bean
1969 W-30

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
SOA Blog has said their research indicates market conditions don't warrant bringing the diesel, but they'll continue monitoring the demand.
I understand that is their position, as they have stated a few times. SOA just needs to be careful and not make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. GM had great focus-group feedback as they went down the tubes.

I would love to see Subaru set the curve. Make a long term investment, you can react with vision.

Peace,

Greg
b4wantab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 09:56 AM   #23
grzydj
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 84984
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza 2.5i 5D
'04 Toyota Tacoma TRD

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
SOA Blog has said their research indicates market conditions don't warrant bringing the diesel, but they'll continue monitoring the demand.
Hahahahahaha. And they somehow determined that a company that builds cars that people buy instead of an SUV, thought that building an SUV (Tribeca) somehow warranted production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsol View Post
yeah that's the market condition

Soaring Sales of Diesel Cars Support Higher Platinum Prices

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2730...latinum-prices


Truth: SOA can't/won't put the R&D into getting it certified for USA emissions.
Subaru is at a disadvantage here, unless Toyota and Subaru together can somehow absorb some of the costs for diesel engines to meet US emissions standards. On their own though, Subaru would probably lose money on trying to make diesels meet US emissions if they were to only sell 20k of them a year.

Honestly, I know they would sell them as fast as they could make them, but it must be huge amount of money for them to not consider what would be an awesome engine.

I want my 50 mpg and great drive-ability with oodles of low end torque.
grzydj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 10:32 AM   #24
JustyWRC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:
2005 Baja Turbo
06 Forester 04 Forester

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grzydj View Post
Hahahahahaha. And they somehow determined that a company that builds cars that people buy instead of an SUV, thought that building an SUV (Tribeca) somehow warranted production.



Subaru is at a disadvantage here, unless Toyota and Subaru together can somehow absorb some of the costs for diesel engines to meet US emissions standards. On their own though, Subaru would probably lose money on trying to make diesels meet US emissions if they were to only sell 20k of them a year.

Honestly, I know they would sell them as fast as they could make them, but it must be huge amount of money for them to not consider what would be an awesome engine.

I want my 50 mpg and great drive-ability with oodles of low end torque.

The Tribeca was conceived and developed before the bad gas prices. Would have done better if that wasn't the case. Would it have done as well as they originally planned? Dunno. I think it would have done well enough to warrant a normal timeline redesign.

Subaru would probably price the diesel as bad as they do overseas. Isn't it like $3K more than a non-diesel?
JustyWRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2011, 09:10 PM   #25
cefoskey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83961
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: DFW
Vehicle:
2014 A5 S-Line 6MT
'06 Triumph D675

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
SOA Blog has said their research indicates market conditions don't warrant bringing the diesel, but they'll continue monitoring the demand.
Then why is it that VW sells their entire TDI lineup at MSRP, and in some cases above sticker?

How is it that every subaru dealer I go to and ask about a diesel forester tells me I'm the eleventy billionth person to ask for one?

This is a terrible argument, I really wonder where they get this data that "people dont want a diesel here". Of any demographic, subaru drivers are the MOST likely to understand the advantages.
cefoskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The internet, where system resources go to die Corn-Picker Off-Topic 10 11-09-2009 09:59 PM
Once more with feeling: Ford does not use the Toyota hybrid system! Tea cups Non-Subaru News & Rumors 1 07-03-2009 09:46 AM
Were all going to Knotts Berry Farm. Come and go with us!!! 1-26-2008 STEALTH-WRX Southern California Impreza Club Forum -- SCIC 0 01-25-2008 10:49 PM
the corruption of the US credit system...and how easy it is to fake it The Tree Off-Topic 55 01-21-2008 02:14 PM
Subaru to ditch aluminum body panels TheBlacKnight Southern California Impreza Club Forum -- SCIC 9 12-29-2006 03:25 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2016 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2016, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.