Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday April 17, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-31-2011, 12:01 PM   #1
rkjunior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112220
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Waltham, MA
Vehicle:
2011 WRX 5DR Premium
DGM

Default valve adjustment question

Can someone please explain to me why a valve adjustment would be quoted as costing $2300. Is it really that much in labor even if there is a few hundred in miscellaneous parts (gaskets, etc).

Also, why is this repair not covered under the SAS GOLD plan when everything under the sun is? I've researched my documentation for the SAS GOLD and it does not differentiate between a repair/adjustment -- seems like they are contradicting what was sold to avoild getting out of doing this costly 'repair.' I've been fighting with the dealer in trying to fix a P0304 code for a few months. First it was "caused by a bad plug" and it was cleared during my 90K. It came back a month later, now it was caused by the bad P2443 Secondary Air Valve that was replaced -- cleared, and now it's back a few days later.. This time they swapped injector 2/4 along with the coil packs to see if they could get the code moved -- it stayed, so now they're saying the car requires a $2300 valve adjustment to fix - which won't be covered.

I'm about to take SOA to small claims on this one -- I feel like I'm getting jobbed.

P0304 is a Cylinder 4 Misfire.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by rkjunior; 05-31-2011 at 11:22 PM.
rkjunior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 01:43 PM   #2
teiva-boy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 22825
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Just as the name implies, "Valve Adjustment," is just that, an adjustment normally carried out in a maintenance routine.

At your mileage, this is wear and tear, normally not covered under a warranty unless specifically stated. Best to blow your engine to get it covered
teiva-boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 01:53 PM   #3
rkjunior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112220
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Waltham, MA
Vehicle:
2011 WRX 5DR Premium
DGM

Default

The website info for SAS GOLD clearly states that wear and tear is included.

http://www.subaru.com/finance-center...mparisons.html
rkjunior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 01:56 PM   #4
NemesisSi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 79805
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: DFW
Vehicle:
2011 Acura TSX 2.4
Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkjunior
Can someone please explain to me why a valve adjustment would be quoted as costing $2300. Is it really that much in labor even if there is a few hundred in miscellaneous parts (gaskets, etc).

Also, why is this repair not covered under the SAS GOLD plan when everything under the sun is? I've researched my documentation for the SAS GOLD and it does not differentiate between a repair/adjustment -- seems like they are contradicting what was sold to avoild getting out of doing this costly 'repair.' I've been fighting with the dealer in trying to fix a P0304 code for a few months. First it was "caused by a bad plug" and it was cleared during my 90K. It came back a month later, now it was caused by the bad P2443 Secondary Air Valve that was replaced -- cleared, and now it's back a few days later.. This time they swapped injector 2/4 along with the coil packs to see if they could get the code moved -- it stayed, so now they're saying the car requires a $2300 valve adjustment to fix - which won't be covered.

I'm about to take SOA to small claims on this one -- I feel like I'm getting jobbed.
Wow! And I thought 400 for a valve adjustment on my Type R was ridiculous!

2300 to do what?
NemesisSi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 08:41 PM   #5
ringe
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 49998
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
2007 WRX CT Stg 2
WRB

Default

...the hell would you need to adjust valves on a car with hydraulic lifters for? Could be that you're misinterpreting their results? Maybe valve replacement is what they're talking about, as in one is damaged/warped/etc.
ringe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 10:36 PM   #6
rkjunior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112220
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Waltham, MA
Vehicle:
2011 WRX 5DR Premium
DGM

Default

From the workorder:

"also recommend valve adjustment to correct misfire code P0304. Estimate for valve adjustment $2300+TAX".

Wouldn't a compression/leak down test determine if the valve was out of adjustment? If one was warped/damaged, that wouldn't be an adjustment - a repair - and it would be covered, according to them.
rkjunior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 11:35 PM   #7
slowmike
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 24890
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: All I wanted was a Pepsi
Vehicle:
2002 Jackwagon
WRB GG

Default

I've had intermittent P0304 CELs from tight valves. Valve adjustment = pull the engine EJ205/257s use solid lifters
slowmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 01:00 AM   #8
AREA1320
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 112508
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Easton, PA
Default

Thats because their $2300 repair is actually replacing the blown piston
AREA1320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 10:13 AM   #9
Wicked Innovation
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 265606
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Manchester, NH
Default

lol, sorry to laugh but i like the last post and its probably true

and yeah, to adjust the valves requires changing the buckets and its a lot of work, but not $2300 either.

Wicked M@
Wicked Innovation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 11:06 AM   #10
Bakerbrdz
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 132394
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NORFOLK, VIRGINIA
Vehicle:
1.21 gigawatts?
Lighting bolt power bitch

Default

try replacing the coilpack. i had a p0303 code, swapped 1/3 coilpacks and the code went away. but now i have a p0301 code. so basically the code followed the bad coilpack. try replacing the coilpack (100+ bucks) and see if it goes away

Last edited by Bakerbrdz; 06-01-2011 at 11:06 AM. Reason: because i saw moses
Bakerbrdz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 12:28 PM   #11
rkjunior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112220
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Waltham, MA
Vehicle:
2011 WRX 5DR Premium
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakerbrdz
try replacing the coilpack. i had a p0303 code, swapped 1/3 coilpacks and the code went away. but now i have a p0301 code. so basically the code followed the bad coilpack. try replacing the coilpack (100+ bucks) and see if it goes away
They moved the coilpacks when they moved the injectors.

What I don't understand is how you can recommend a valve adjustment BEFORE you do a compression and/or leakdown test. Its almost like they know if they do, and it comes back bad, they know they will have to cover it - which they don't want to do.

Keep in mind, too, that the p0304 is very intermittent and not constant. If I clear it, it may not come back for a week or more.... Which is why I feel like they are going overboad and guessing on this. Could the knock sensor cause this?

Last edited by rkjunior; 06-01-2011 at 12:38 PM.
rkjunior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 12:34 PM   #12
rkjunior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112220
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Waltham, MA
Vehicle:
2011 WRX 5DR Premium
DGM

Default

Anyone else fought with SOA regarding this? How about the P0304. Seems like going from the injector swap directly to the valve adjustment is overkill... Could anything else be causing it?
rkjunior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 12:48 PM   #13
Badler
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133597
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange
Default

I would demand a leakdown/compression test. Have them show you the #s too.
Badler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 12:59 PM   #14
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

If changing the plugs doesn't help
If swapping the igniters doesn't help

Try this ...
Change your gas station.

I had this issue last year. It was a PITA trying to find the problem. I changed plugs, swapped plugs, swapped igniters, checked igniters, checked igniter connections, changed rear O2 sensor, and a bunch of other items.

In my case, the issue always stayed w/ #2 cylinder.

All of the above * could * be a cause of the P030X code. Lots of searching in NASIOC, IWSTI and other places. I logged every chenage, one by one, to track the issue to eliminate areas of possible trouble.

Finally realized what conditions caused the code.

I used to use the same gas station all the time with no problems. One day, the issue started without warning (don;t they always?), not long after filling up.

Problem would either come and go OR come on for an extended period.

Finally changed to a different gas station and after running a complete tank of fuel on the new stuff, problem went away on its own.

I have not gone back to the old gas station and my problem has not returned.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 02:46 PM   #15
rkjunior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112220
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Waltham, MA
Vehicle:
2011 WRX 5DR Premium
DGM

Default

I may try that. Won't hurt.

Where is Cylinder 3 located on the engine? I may pull the plug and see what it looks like, too.
rkjunior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 02:53 PM   #16
STi_FTW
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 184619
Join Date: Jul 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Richmond, VA
Vehicle:
2005 Impreza WRX STi
PSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkjunior View Post
I may try that. Won't hurt.

Where is Cylinder 3 located on the engine? I may pull the plug and see what it looks like, too.
When standing at the front of the car looking at the engine.

3---4
1---2

So cyl 3 would be the rear passenger cylinder.
STi_FTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 02:53 PM   #17
Paidfor
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 267815
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: 04STi JAVA
Vehicle:
EVO Woudve been
Cheaper!!!!!

Default

............................................facepa lm................................................ ......
Paidfor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 03:01 PM   #18
rkjunior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112220
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Waltham, MA
Vehicle:
2011 WRX 5DR Premium
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_FTW View Post
When standing at the front of the car looking at the engine.

3---4
1---2

So cyl 3 would be the rear passenger cylinder.
Thanks. Just wasn't sure how it was setup with a Subaru. I know they're a pain to get to so I just let the dealer change them during the 90K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paidfor View Post
............................................facepa lm................................................ ......
Thanks for trolling! :thumbsup:
rkjunior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 03:16 PM   #19
Paidfor
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 267815
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: 04STi JAVA
Vehicle:
EVO Woudve been
Cheaper!!!!!

Default

^^^^^^^^^no prob son......tell mama ill be a little late this evening......lol......highschoolers tryin to build engines just reassures my position at the dealership......i love fixing your f-ups.....hahaha
Paidfor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 03:26 PM   #20
rkjunior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112220
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Waltham, MA
Vehicle:
2011 WRX 5DR Premium
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paidfor View Post
^^^^^^^^^no prob son......tell mama ill be a little late this evening......lol......highschoolers tryin to build engines just reassures my position at the dealership......i love fixing your f-ups.....hahaha
maybe you could use some of that dealership knowledge and maybe lend some suggestions on what to do?
rkjunior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 03:37 PM   #21
Paidfor
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 267815
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: 04STi JAVA
Vehicle:
EVO Woudve been
Cheaper!!!!!

Default

Sure........sounds like you need to have a good leakdown and cylinder compression test done. If valve adjustment is the culprit...a leakdown test will prove it. compresion test it....if its low.....pour some engine oil into cylinder(yes this will require some longass homeade type funnel), check compression again....if its good, problem is in the ring/piston area. PO304 is the worst code you can probaly get on a subaru as the #4 cylinder is the hottest/leanest cylinder in stock form. My #4 piston blew apart at 46000 miles on a all stock 04 STi. ALL STOCK!!!!! As far as testing the injectors and ign coils, theres no need to be swapping any parts, look in the service manual(if u dont have it.....get it) Its very easy to test with a common volt/multimeter. Ohm em out and compare to manual specs.
Paidfor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 05:10 PM   #22
rkjunior
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112220
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Waltham, MA
Vehicle:
2011 WRX 5DR Premium
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paidfor View Post
Sure........sounds like you need to have a good leakdown and cylinder compression test done. If valve adjustment is the culprit...a leakdown test will prove it. compresion test it....if its low.....pour some engine oil into cylinder(yes this will require some longass homeade type funnel), check compression again....if its good, problem is in the ring/piston area. PO304 is the worst code you can probaly get on a subaru as the #4 cylinder is the hottest/leanest cylinder in stock form. My #4 piston blew apart at 46000 miles on a all stock 04 STi. ALL STOCK!!!!! As far as testing the injectors and ign coils, theres no need to be swapping any parts, look in the service manual(if u dont have it.....get it) Its very easy to test with a common volt/multimeter. Ohm em out and compare to manual specs.

Thank you. This is good information and is appreciated. Any idea what the numbers for the compression and leakdown test should look like?

Does this $2300 quote for a damn valve adjustment sound right in the ballpark? Everyone seems to think it's very high.
rkjunior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 05:31 PM   #23
Paidfor
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 267815
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: 04STi JAVA
Vehicle:
EVO Woudve been
Cheaper!!!!!

Default

Cold compression usually 110-130 +/- leakdown should be no more than 25% or so. When i built mine(04 STi wih ej257, forged pistons, oversized valves) I had a leakdown rate of 35% This was due to everything being brand new and cold as hell lol started her up, idled it for about 20 mins. Checked compression and leakdown. Comp was at 155 on all 4 cylinders, leakdown rate of 15%. People will tell you that a leakdown of more than 5% is a problem, that is not correct as sooooo many variables come into play such as oil temp, thickness, age. New parts or old etc... Im looking at the time charts now and complete valve adjustment is only a 4.8 hr job. At our $85 an hr rate, thatd be $408 plus any buckets that you may need. $36 per bucket. Worst case senario if you needed 16 buckets and 4.8 hrs labor is $984.00 $2300 is waaayyyyyy high!!!!!!!!!!!
Paidfor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 09:26 AM   #24
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paidfor View Post
^^^^^^^^^no prob son......tell mama ill be a little late this evening......lol......highschoolers tryin to build engines just reassures my position at the dealership......i love fixing your f-ups.....hahaha
This would be a good reason NOT to use you or your dealership for service work. BAD attitude

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paidfor
.....pour some engine oil into cylinder
This is completely unnecessary. You do not have to pour any oil into the cylinder. Simply put a couple of squirts of oil into the cylinder with an oil squirt can. All you need to do is get the rings wet, not drown them or the cylinder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paidfor
.....As far as testing the injectors and ign coils, theres no need to be swapping any parts, look in the service manual
This is also not a completely true statement. Sure, IF you have a service manual handy and IF you have and know how to use an Ohm meter, you can do this.

Swapping plugs/igniters is quick and easy and will tell you immediately if the part is bad or not becuase the problem will follow the part if the part is bad.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 10:12 AM   #25
Paidfor
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 267815
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: 04STi JAVA
Vehicle:
EVO Woudve been
Cheaper!!!!!

Default

Alrighty samurai jackoff. .lol sounds like you need to go and help those auto zone boys change some wiperblades or something . lol If YOU want to work on YOUR car then YES you do NEED a service manual. If all your gonna do is swap parts and blame problems on faulty fuel, then i think you need to bring your problem cars to someone who KNOWS what they are doing.You can analyze the fuel for parts per water with a fuel analyzer and you can flawlessly repair problems time after time with the factory service manual that can be found online in cd format for very little cost, as it contains all the torque specs and parameter values for sensor/wiring tests. Or some people just have nothing better to do than make uneducated guesses and swap around parts , potentially creating new problems. hhhmmmmmmm what to do.........
Paidfor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Valve Lash Adjustment Question/Issue on SOHC wirolla Normally Aspirated Powertrain 10 05-25-2009 11:55 AM
valve tick or valve adjust? ali dashty Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 0 11-06-2008 06:15 PM
EJ20 valve adjustment question Loomin Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 5 08-30-2006 09:01 AM
Cleaning now that heads are off? And Valve adjust question? yebokmj Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 4 07-13-2003 05:44 AM
Valve adjustment Pinoy Southern California Impreza Club Forum -- SCIC 0 06-13-2001 10:42 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.