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Old 10-05-2011, 12:30 AM   #1
robwormald
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Default Could someone take a look at my logs for me?

Just flashed stage2 93 after putting on cobb downpipe and SPT exhaust. no other mods

the first 2 are from a stop, quickly through 1-2 and then from 2000 to ~6000 in 3rd

pull1 1 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

pull 2 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

the 3rd is from when i saw an opportunity on the onramp and went for it

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0


these were taken about 1 mile after i flashed to the 93 map, i'd been running the 91 until i could do some logging. i'm pretty new to this, so there's some feedback knock values (-2ish) that worry me? but it doesn't look like there's anything majorly wrong - so safe to give it some time on this map to learn before logging again?
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:12 AM   #2
Dj Xtz
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Hmmm.....seems like you are leaning out a bit after you hit your boost target. Looks like your wdgc's are 10% higher than they should be when your Throttle Position is at 100%. Try the HWG map and datalog again to see if it goes away.

Last edited by Dj Xtz; 10-05-2011 at 02:28 AM.
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:03 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by robwormald View Post
Just flashed stage2 93 after putting on cobb downpipe and SPT exhaust. no other mods

the first 2 are from a stop, quickly through 1-2 and then from 2000 to ~6000 in 3rd

pull1 1 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

pull 2 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

the 3rd is from when i saw an opportunity on the onramp and went for it

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0


these were taken about 1 mile after i flashed to the 93 map, i'd been running the 91 until i could do some logging. i'm pretty new to this, so there's some feedback knock values (-2ish) that worry me? but it doesn't look like there's anything majorly wrong - so safe to give it some time on this map to learn before logging again?
Hi there.

You are getting consistent knock during your WOT runs. The DAM even drops during the WOT run in one of your logs.

Your boost control actually looks really good. Do not use the HWG map.

If you've driven the car for a while since the last map reflash or ecu reset, then I would view the A/F Learning 1 A, B, C, D values via live data and report back. These will tell us if you have a potential fueling problem. After that, I would flash our most conservative map, the stage 2 91 ACN, while still running 93 octane to see if the problem improves. I would not do anymore WOT runs on the 93 map.

The other possibility is that you have something loose in the engine bay (ex. turbo heatshield) that the knock sensor is picking up and causing it to report knock that doesn't exist.

Double check what map is in your reflash and real-time slots and report back (via the Tune -> Show Current Map option on the AP).

Bill
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:11 PM   #4
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Default Correction

Hey Bill, thanks for correcting me and not sending him down the wrong path... Next time I will leave the advice to the pros if I am not sure about it . I was thinking of having him switch to a more conservative 91 map after the HWG map if the knock persisted to see if it was just a fuel issue... But you beat me to it.

Last edited by Dj Xtz; 10-05-2011 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:21 PM   #5
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Hi there.

You are getting consistent knock during your WOT runs. The DAM even drops during the WOT run in one of your logs.

Your boost control actually looks really good. Do not use the HWG map.

If you've driven the car for a while since the last map reflash or ecu reset, then I would view the A/F Learning 1 A, B, C, D values via live data and report back. These will tell us if you have a potential fueling problem. After that, I would flash our most conservative map, the stage 2 91 ACN, while still running 93 octane to see if the problem improves. I would not do anymore WOT runs on the 93 map.

The other possibility is that you have something loose in the engine bay (ex. turbo heatshield) that the knock sensor is picking up and causing it to report knock that doesn't exist.

Double check what map is in your reflash and real-time slots and report back (via the Tune -> Show Current Map option on the AP).

Bill
Yikes! Glad I didn't run out and reflash last night.

I've probably got 10 or so miles since the reflash after the runs last night. Best course of action? Stay on the 93 map for today (I will probably drive 30 miles this afternoon) and stay off the go pedal to see if it will learn, or flash the ACN 91 map for safety?

assuming its not a loose washer (i'm going to go check that next) what potential causes am I looking at here?

I fill up from the same chevron station on 93, possibility of bad gas?
Otherwise what else should I be preparing for?
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:25 PM   #6
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I would say go with Bill's advice and ref lash with the more conservative 91 map to see if knock goes away.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:53 PM   #7
Dj Xtz
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Default Piggy back

I am going to piggy back on to this thread.... Bill, can you please look at my logs for the Stage 3 91ACN map? Here is the datalog: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hHdmc&hl=en_US. I Would like you to view the 117.91 - 123.75 second time frame since that is when I did the 3rd gear pull. Hit 20.19 PSI according to the AP, at the most I see 900 degrees for EGTs. This is on an 03 WRX. Not getting any knock but want to make sure that the A/F leaning, Advance, and Ignition Timing Values are good. Thanks.

Engine and Drivetrain Mods include:

Cobb AP V2, of course
Cobb Catted DP
Denso Dark Blue 560cc Injectors
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump
5/16" Fuel Line Conversion
PNP VF39
PNP Intake w/ Winkle Black Finish
PNP TGV Delete
3mm Intake Risers
4 Ply Black Silicone Turbo Inlet Tube
STI Catback w/ Resonator Deleted
Heat Wrapped STI Up Pipe
Coated Borla Unequal Length Headers
Snorkus Delete on Stock Intake
Stock EBCS with restrictive coupler removed
Perrin Radiator Shroud
Exeddy Stage 1 Clutch Kit
F1 Racing 12lb Flywheel

Last edited by Dj Xtz; 10-05-2011 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:28 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by robwormald View Post
Yikes! Glad I didn't run out and reflash last night.

I've probably got 10 or so miles since the reflash after the runs last night. Best course of action? Stay on the 93 map for today (I will probably drive 30 miles this afternoon) and stay off the go pedal to see if it will learn, or flash the ACN 91 map for safety?

assuming its not a loose washer (i'm going to go check that next) what potential causes am I looking at here?

I fill up from the same chevron station on 93, possibility of bad gas?
Otherwise what else should I be preparing for?
This is not a case of it allowing the ECU to learn. Something is not right here. Bad/crappy gas is a possiblity. I would go ahead and switch to a different station and brand (see what your local enthusiasts have the best luck with).

Another possibility is something rattling in the engine bay. Turbo heatshield is a common one, especially after a DP install. Another is the uppipe heatshield, although this usually happens with age (broken welds). If you've had anything repaired (i.e. removed at some point) in the engine bay, I would also focus there.

Fueling issues are a possiblity. Usually this is something that occurs with age, which would not generally apply to a new car (old MAF/front o2, post-MAF leaks). But, you can often determine fueling issues by looking at the long-term fuel trims as described earlier.

Switching to the 91 ACN would rule out the "rattling noise in the engine bay" theory if there was a notable improvement in the knock situation. If you have access to some unleaded race gas, you can mix in a few gallons or so to a full tank of 93 octane gas as another test.

Bill
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:36 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Dj Xtz View Post
I am going to piggy back on to this thread.... Bill, can you please look at my logs for the Stage 3 91ACN map? Here is the datalog: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hHdmc&hl=en_US. I Would like you to view the 117.91 - 123.75 second time frame since that is when I did the 3rd gear pull. Hit 20.19 PSI according to the AP, at the most I see 900 degrees for EGTs. This is on an 03 WRX. Not getting any knock but want to make sure that the A/F leaning, Advance, and Ignition Timing Values are good. Thanks.

Engine and Drivetrain Mods include:

Cobb AP V2, of course
Cobb Catted DP
Denso Dark Blue 560cc Injectors
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump
5/16" Fuel Line Conversion
PNP VF39
PNP Intake w/ Winkle Black Finish
PNP TGV Delete
3mm Intake Risers
4 Ply Black Silicone Turbo Inlet Tube
STI Catback w/ Resonator Deleted
Heat Wrapped STI Up Pipe
Coated Borla Unequal Length Headers
Snorkus Delete on Stock Intake
Stock EBCS with restrictive coupler removed
Perrin Radiator Shroud
Exeddy Stage 1 Clutch Kit
F1 Racing 12lb Flywheel
Is this a custom map or our stage 3 OTS map? What intake are you using?

Bill
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:02 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
This is not a case of it allowing the ECU to learn. Something is not right here. Bad/crappy gas is a possiblity. I would go ahead and switch to a different station and brand (see what your local enthusiasts have the best luck with).

Another possibility is something rattling in the engine bay. Turbo heatshield is a common one, especially after a DP install. Another is the uppipe heatshield, although this usually happens with age (broken welds). If you've had anything repaired (i.e. removed at some point) in the engine bay, I would also focus there.

Fueling issues are a possiblity. Usually this is something that occurs with age, which would not generally apply to a new car (old MAF/front o2, post-MAF leaks). But, you can often determine fueling issues by looking at the long-term fuel trims as described earlier.

Switching to the 91 ACN would rule out the "rattling noise in the engine bay" theory if there was a notable improvement in the knock situation. If you have access to some unleaded race gas, you can mix in a few gallons or so to a full tank of 93 octane gas as another test.

Bill
Thanks for the info - here's some more data points to look at.

This is after a flash to the Stage 2 91 ACN Map - i then did a ~35 mile loop on the interstate here, about 80% cruising at ~75 and 20% stop and go.

4 runs, one right after another. All on the same stretch of road - on the 3rd run I did run through a small pothole while spooling up!

The situation looks improved but on runs 2,3,4 i'm still seeing that event at ~4000rpm.

No other variables changed - one thing at a time.

Run 1 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...cyMXc&hl=en_US

Run 2 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...RfalE&hl=en_US

Run 3 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

Run 4- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...M0aGc&hl=en_US
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:07 PM   #11
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regarding rattling - i currently don't have a turbo heat shield on there as cobb didn't bring any to event, so it's obviously not that rattling (I was advised this wasn't problematic in itself, I've got one on the way)
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:17 PM   #12
Dj Xtz
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Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
Is this a custom map or our stage 3 OTS map? What intake are you using?

Bill
Stock airbox with snorkus delete & After MAF tube. This is your OTS 91ACN Stage 3 map.
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:28 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by robwormald View Post
Thanks for the info - here's some more data points to look at.

This is after a flash to the Stage 2 91 ACN Map - i then did a ~35 mile loop on the interstate here, about 80% cruising at ~75 and 20% stop and go.

4 runs, one right after another. All on the same stretch of road - on the 3rd run I did run through a small pothole while spooling up!

The situation looks improved but on runs 2,3,4 i'm still seeing that event at ~4000rpm.

No other variables changed - one thing at a time.

Run 1 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...cyMXc&hl=en_US

Run 2 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...RfalE&hl=en_US

Run 3 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

Run 4- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...M0aGc&hl=en_US
Yeah... looking at the datalogs the knock is causing the ECU to pull some timing on the Dynamic Advance but since your car is a drive by wire.... A value of 1 for your DAM means the ECU is happy with the tune so this is odd......

Last edited by Dj Xtz; 10-05-2011 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 10-05-2011, 07:56 PM   #14
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just dug around in the engine bay - the bolt holding the front of my (factory) air box is missing. possible cause? heading to ace right now to grab a replacement
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:19 PM   #15
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Hmmm maybe..... I know I am missing one of the mounting bolts on the bottom of my air box but it's not causing an issue.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:43 PM   #16
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had a closer look, the bottom bolt on the air box was totally out of the hole, and when i jiggled the box around it was making a lovely scratchy noise against the metal. tightened it up, going to run some more logs...
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:53 PM   #17
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Take a look at this technical article from Cobb on Dynamic Advance and DAM: www.cobbtuning.com/info/?ID=3487. It helped me out.
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:07 PM   #18
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2 more logs, these are after I retightened the bolts
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FSZVE&hl=en_US

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0


no more logs today, because after I did the 2nd pull, a cop pulled off the freeway onto the feeder, pulled me over, asked me if i really needed to be doing that on the feeder road, shook his head, and drove off. point taken.

Looks like its a consistent issue at least lol. Where to go from here?
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:15 AM   #19
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2 more logs, these are after I retightened the bolts
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FSZVE&hl=en_US

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0


no more logs today, because after I did the 2nd pull, a cop pulled off the freeway onto the feeder, pulled me over, asked me if i really needed to be doing that on the feeder road, shook his head, and drove off. point taken.

Looks like its a consistent issue at least lol. Where to go from here?
Keep in mind that fine knock learning is going to generally be a correction based on past knock that is re-applied until the ECU see no knock in a specific sequence of hitting those load/RPM cells again. So, it doesn't mean you are necessarily knocking at that instant. For feedback knock correction, each time you see it drop from the previous value - that is a perceived knock event. There is no feedback knock in these two runs (some of the prior logs did have it).

You may want to reset the ECU (to clear the fine knock learning) and then do some driving (until the DAM learns up to 1.0) and then do some more runs to see if tightening the bolt made any difference.

Bill
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:18 AM   #20
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Stock airbox with snorkus delete & After MAF tube. This is your OTS 91ACN Stage 3 map.
Your long-term fuel trims are way off (pulling a lot of fuel). It looks like you may have either have a boost leak or a bad front o2 sensor.

Bill
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:16 AM   #21
Dj Xtz
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Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
Your long-term fuel trims are way off (pulling a lot of fuel). It looks like you may have either have a boost leak or a bad front o2 sensor.

Bill
Thanks Bill, so should I be seeing above 0% for my A/F readings? Because mine are negative from the start..... I know I need to put a better seal on my BOV (only one bolt tightens, the other is stripped so will have to tap it out to next size up bolt and RTV the seal). Also may need a better gasket at TB.... If I had an issue with the O2 in the exhaust manifold would it not throw a CEL???
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:15 PM   #22
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Thanks Bill, so should I be seeing above 0% for my A/F readings? Because mine are negative from the start..... I know I need to put a better seal on my BOV (only one bolt tightens, the other is stripped so will have to tap it out to next size up bolt and RTV the seal). Also may need a better gasket at TB.... If I had an issue with the O2 in the exhaust manifold would it not throw a CEL???
Your A/F Learning 1 values should be ideally within around +/-5% (+/- 8% is sometimes acceptable). But, you are over +10% for some of the airflow ranges. The front o2 is not generally going to throw a CEL until you hit the extremes of long-term correction. But, given that you know you have leaks along the intake tract, I would start there. I would definitely do a pressure test or smoke test.

Bill
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:16 PM   #23
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Thanks Bill. Will get the issues fixed then pull logs again after a pressure test confirms no boost leaks.
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:23 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
Keep in mind that fine knock learning is going to generally be a correction based on past knock that is re-applied until the ECU see no knock in a specific sequence of hitting those load/RPM cells again. So, it doesn't mean you are necessarily knocking at that instant. For feedback knock correction, each time you see it drop from the previous value - that is a perceived knock event. There is no feedback knock in these two runs (some of the prior logs did have it).

You may want to reset the ECU (to clear the fine knock learning) and then do some driving (until the DAM learns up to 1.0) and then do some more runs to see if tightening the bolt made any difference.

Bill
Sounds good. If I get a clean bill of health on the ACN91 map after the above steps, safe to assume my noisy bolts were causing the problem? Should I then go back up to the regular 91 stage2 map and start logging again?
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:16 AM   #25
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Sounds good. If I get a clean bill of health on the ACN91 map after the above steps, safe to assume my noisy bolts were causing the problem? Should I then go back up to the regular 91 stage2 map and start logging again?
I would give it some time on the 91 ACN map (and some more runs) before making any kind of determination. If it is completely solved after that, then you can consider going to the regular 91 map.

Bill
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