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Old 10-15-2011, 11:16 AM   #1
sip
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Default Random NO START issue on JDM wagon

Car: 1995 JDM WRX wagon
Issue: Randomly won't start.

Background: Occasionally won't start. If I sit there and crank it for a while it will sometimes start up and once started it will run fine.

I did a search but the threads I cam up with were constant no start issues, and usually after something was changed. The only thing I changed were the plugs (to OEM NGK's) and this issue predated the spark plugs.
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:34 PM   #2
Jarrod164
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So to start a car you need air, fuel and spark. Spark includes coil packs! As well as a battery and starter motor I guess.
Maybe you're injectors suck or your fuel pump doesn't deliver. Have you tried turning your key to prime the pump first before starting your car every single time (can you hear the fuel flowing)? You need to start coming up with a consistent method for starting your car and then from there, think about if the engine is hot or cold, maybe that makes a difference. Then it will be easier to start troubleshooting.
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Old 10-16-2011, 01:16 AM   #3
DHRDAN
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100 bucks says you have wiring problems... whomever did your conversion is to blame.


wiring problems. could be some random ground, could be some random relay... hell it could be a fuse.
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Old 10-16-2011, 12:03 PM   #4
stangod
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Wiring....I would look at cam/crank position sensor.
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:52 PM   #5
sip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrod164 View Post
So to start a car you need air, fuel and spark. Spark includes coil packs! As well as a battery and starter motor I guess.
Maybe you're injectors suck or your fuel pump doesn't deliver. Have you tried turning your key to prime the pump first before starting your car every single time (can you hear the fuel flowing)? You need to start coming up with a consistent method for starting your car and then from there, think about if the engine is hot or cold, maybe that makes a difference. Then it will be easier to start troubleshooting.
Ok, tried it a couple times today starting by turning the key counting to 5, turning it off, key on count to 5 and then start. It seems to run every time like this. So I'm guessing the fuel delivery is the issue. I'll try changing the fuel filter first, then the pump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHRDAN View Post
100 bucks says you have wiring problems... whomever did your conversion is to blame.


wiring problems. could be some random ground, could be some random relay... hell it could be a fuse.
Conversion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stangod View Post
Wiring....I would look at cam/crank position sensor.
But then why would it work fine once running if the timing is off.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:44 AM   #6
B-yap
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My car did the same thing. Would randomly not want to start, then wait 5, 10 minutes or w/e and it would start right up. Ended up being a bad crank position sensor
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:51 AM   #7
TommyAtomic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sip View Post
Ok, tried it a couple times today starting by turning the key counting to 5, turning it off, key on count to 5 and then start. It seems to run every time like this. So I'm guessing the fuel delivery is the issue. I'll try changing the fuel filter first, then the pump.



Conversion?

But then why would it work fine once running if the timing is off.

This definetely sounds like fuel to me. I would be looking to test fuel pressure and then perhaps replace the FPR. Also does it start easier with a tank of fuel system cleaner?

You may be experiencing a double whammy of clogged injectors and insuffecient fuel pressure. I would replace the fuel filter, check fuel pressure with an inline fuel pressure guage then look into a new FPR and as a last resort a new fuel pump.

Alot of guys jump straight to a new fuel pump or a walbro 255lph. The new pump is fine and it may improve starting but its really just moving a greater volume of fuel to compensate for insuffecient fuel pressure. I doesnt fix the actual problem and is sometimes a waste of a perfectly good pump.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:32 AM   #8
69subaru360
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Nah, the check valve in the old pump is probably bad. It lets the fuel in the lines bleed back to the tank. That's why it starts if you prime it a few times by turning the key on and off before cranking.
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:41 PM   #9
elislider
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who let DAN back in here the guy has a legit car, he's in Canada

things to check have been stated already. coilpacks (look for cracks), fuel filter, crank/cam sensor, and check your grounds on the strut tower to make sure they are clean (take them off, sand a bit, put back).
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:08 PM   #10
TommyAtomic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69subaru360 View Post
Nah, the check valve in the old pump is probably bad. It lets the fuel in the lines bleed back to the tank. That's why it starts if you prime it a few times by turning the key on and off before cranking.
On my 93 wrx I actually replaced my fuel pump with a walbro 255lph. That greatly improved starting but my starting issues didnt get completely resolved until I replaced my FPR.

I was also doing the multi-priming startup until I replaced my fpr. Regardless its good to check for proper fuel pressure. Once you have good fuel pressure its handy to run injector cleaner through.

In a turbocharged engine air is assumed. Once you are sure that fuel isnt an issue you want to look at spark. Spark isnt something that would be effected by multipriming the fuel pump. Thats going to be a fuel pressure issue either caused by the pump or the fpr. Best to test with an inline fuel pressure guage at the very least to determine if after replacing a part that your issue is actually fixed.

New parts are shiny but if the old part isnt broken your issue isnt fixed.
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Old 10-21-2011, 09:38 AM   #11
sip
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Strange but my GC8 sedan seems to be having trouble starting too. Even when I prime for 5 sec, it will start and then die out. I need to crank it twice to get it to start every time. These are low mileage cars too, the GF8 has 22K miles and the GC8 has 4K miles. Come to think of it the GC I had a couple years ago used to need to be started twice as well.

There must be a very common issue and solution to this problem.
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Old 10-21-2011, 02:03 PM   #12
TommyAtomic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sip View Post
Strange but my GC8 sedan seems to be having trouble starting too. Even when I prime for 5 sec, it will start and then die out. I need to crank it twice to get it to start every time. These are low mileage cars too, the GF8 has 22K miles and the GC8 has 4K miles. Come to think of it the GC I had a couple years ago used to need to be started twice as well.

There must be a very common issue and solution to this problem.
Sounds exactly like my issue just before I replaced my FPR. My thinking is that the stock FPR is more effected by age then by milage.
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:57 PM   #13
sip
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OK so it is not the fuel filter, I replaced that and it seemed to work fine for a week. Then I drove to A&W ate a burger and then the damn thing wouldn't start. I had to walk home.

I got a drive back the next day and it started up fine.

I should replace the Fuel Pressure Regulator next? What North American FPR will replace the stock EJ20G?
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:19 AM   #14
TommyAtomic
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For me it was so big a pita to find an oem fpr that i got an aftermarket fpr. So first make sure fuel pressure is the issue. Get a fuel pressure guage hooked up so you can see what your starting fuel pressure is and what fuel pressure you are getting when it fails to start.
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Old 11-13-2011, 05:54 PM   #15
beaviscih
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sip
I should replace the Fuel Pressure Regulator next? What North American FPR will replace the stock EJ20G?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the USDM 1.8L FPR the same as the EJ20G? I thought I saw it posted somewhere but can't find it.
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:00 PM   #16
sip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beaviscih View Post
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the USDM 1.8L FPR the same as the EJ20G? I thought I saw it posted somewhere but can't find it.

That would be very nice if it were true. Can someone confirm this?
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