Random NO START issue on JDM wagon

sip · 10-15-2011, 11:16 AM

Car: 1995 JDM WRX wagon
Issue: Randomly won't start.

Background: Occasionally won't start. If I sit there and crank it for a while it will sometimes start up and once started it will run fine.

I did a search but the threads I cam up with were constant no start issues, and usually after something was changed. The only thing I changed were the plugs (to OEM NGK's) and this issue predated the spark plugs.

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Jarrod164 · 10-15-2011, 01:34 PM

So to start a car you need air, fuel and spark. Spark includes coil packs! As well as a battery and starter motor I guess.
Maybe you're injectors suck or your fuel pump doesn't deliver. Have you tried turning your key to prime the pump first before starting your car every single time (can you hear the fuel flowing)? You need to start coming up with a consistent method for starting your car and then from there, think about if the engine is hot or cold, maybe that makes a difference. Then it will be easier to start troubleshooting.

DHRDAN · 10-16-2011, 01:16 AM

100 bucks says you have wiring problems... whomever did your conversion is to blame.

wiring problems. could be some random ground, could be some random relay... hell it could be a fuse.

stangod · 10-16-2011, 12:03 PM

Wiring....I would look at cam/crank position sensor.

sip · 10-16-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrod164

So to start a car you need air, fuel and spark. Spark includes coil packs! As well as a battery and starter motor I guess.
Maybe you're injectors suck or your fuel pump doesn't deliver. Have you tried turning your key to prime the pump first before starting your car every single time (can you hear the fuel flowing)? You need to start coming up with a consistent method for starting your car and then from there, think about if the engine is hot or cold, maybe that makes a difference. Then it will be easier to start troubleshooting.

Ok, tried it a couple times today starting by turning the key counting to 5, turning it off, key on count to 5 and then start. It seems to run every time like this. So I'm guessing the fuel delivery is the issue. I'll try changing the fuel filter first, then the pump.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHRDAN

100 bucks says you have wiring problems... whomever did your conversion is to blame.

wiring problems. could be some random ground, could be some random relay... hell it could be a fuse.

Conversion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by stangod

Wiring....I would look at cam/crank position sensor.

But then why would it work fine once running if the timing is off.

B-yap · 10-17-2011, 01:44 AM

My car did the same thing. Would randomly not want to start, then wait 5, 10 minutes or w/e and it would start right up. Ended up being a bad crank position sensor

TommyAtomic · 10-17-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sip

Ok, tried it a couple times today starting by turning the key counting to 5, turning it off, key on count to 5 and then start. It seems to run every time like this. So I'm guessing the fuel delivery is the issue. I'll try changing the fuel filter first, then the pump.

Conversion?

But then why would it work fine once running if the timing is off.

This definetely sounds like fuel to me. I would be looking to test fuel pressure and then perhaps replace the FPR. Also does it start easier with a tank of fuel system cleaner?

You may be experiencing a double whammy of clogged injectors and insuffecient fuel pressure. I would replace the fuel filter, check fuel pressure with an inline fuel pressure guage then look into a new FPR and as a last resort a new fuel pump.

Alot of guys jump straight to a new fuel pump or a walbro 255lph. The new pump is fine and it may improve starting but its really just moving a greater volume of fuel to compensate for insuffecient fuel pressure. I doesnt fix the actual problem and is sometimes a waste of a perfectly good pump.

69subaru360 · 10-17-2011, 11:32 AM

Nah, the check valve in the old pump is probably bad. It lets the fuel in the lines bleed back to the tank. That's why it starts if you prime it a few times by turning the key on and off before cranking.

elislider · 10-17-2011, 12:41 PM

who let DAN back in here

the guy has a legit car, he's in Canada

things to check have been stated already. coilpacks (look for cracks), fuel filter, crank/cam sensor, and check your grounds on the strut tower to make sure they are clean (take them off, sand a bit, put back).

TommyAtomic · 10-17-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69subaru360

Nah, the check valve in the old pump is probably bad. It lets the fuel in the lines bleed back to the tank. That's why it starts if you prime it a few times by turning the key on and off before cranking.

On my 93 wrx I actually replaced my fuel pump with a walbro 255lph. That greatly improved starting but my starting issues didnt get completely resolved until I replaced my FPR.

I was also doing the multi-priming startup until I replaced my fpr. Regardless its good to check for proper fuel pressure. Once you have good fuel pressure its handy to run injector cleaner through.

In a turbocharged engine air is assumed. Once you are sure that fuel isnt an issue you want to look at spark. Spark isnt something that would be effected by multipriming the fuel pump. Thats going to be a fuel pressure issue either caused by the pump or the fpr. Best to test with an inline fuel pressure guage at the very least to determine if after replacing a part that your issue is actually fixed.

New parts are shiny but if the old part isnt broken your issue isnt fixed.

sip · 10-21-2011, 09:38 AM

Strange but my GC8 sedan seems to be having trouble starting too. Even when I prime for 5 sec, it will start and then die out. I need to crank it twice to get it to start every time. These are low mileage cars too, the GF8 has 22K miles and the GC8 has 4K miles. Come to think of it the GC I had a couple years ago used to need to be started twice as well.

There must be a very common issue and solution to this problem.

TommyAtomic · 10-21-2011, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sip

Strange but my GC8 sedan seems to be having trouble starting too. Even when I prime for 5 sec, it will start and then die out. I need to crank it twice to get it to start every time. These are low mileage cars too, the GF8 has 22K miles and the GC8 has 4K miles. Come to think of it the GC I had a couple years ago used to need to be started twice as well.

There must be a very common issue and solution to this problem.

Sounds exactly like my issue just before I replaced my FPR. My thinking is that the stock FPR is more effected by age then by milage.

sip · 11-08-2011, 10:57 PM

OK so it is not the fuel filter, I replaced that and it seemed to work fine for a week. Then I drove to A&W ate a burger and then the damn thing wouldn't start. I had to walk home.

I got a drive back the next day and it started up fine.

I should replace the Fuel Pressure Regulator next? What North American FPR will replace the stock EJ20G?

TommyAtomic · 11-09-2011, 11:19 AM

For me it was so big a pita to find an oem fpr that i got an aftermarket fpr. So first make sure fuel pressure is the issue. Get a fuel pressure guage hooked up so you can see what your starting fuel pressure is and what fuel pressure you are getting when it fails to start.

beaviscih · 11-13-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sip

I should replace the Fuel Pressure Regulator next? What North American FPR will replace the stock EJ20G?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the USDM 1.8L FPR the same as the EJ20G? I thought I saw it posted somewhere but can't find it.

sip · 11-15-2011, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaviscih

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the USDM 1.8L FPR the same as the EJ20G? I thought I saw it posted somewhere but can't find it.

That would be very nice if it were true. Can someone confirm this?

10-15-2011, 11:16 AM	#1
sip Scooby Newbie Member#: 170475 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: N.S CANADA Vehicle: 1995 GF8 WRX Wagon GC8 STi RA ver. II	Random NO START issue on JDM wagon Car: 1995 JDM WRX wagon Issue: Randomly won't start. Background: Occasionally won't start. If I sit there and crank it for a while it will sometimes start up and once started it will run fine. I did a search but the threads I cam up with were constant no start issues, and usually after something was changed. The only thing I changed were the plugs (to OEM NGK's) and this issue predated the spark plugs. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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10-15-2011, 01:34 PM	#2
Jarrod164 Scooby Newbie Member#: 253937 Join Date: Aug 2010 Chapter/Region: W. Canada Location: Edmonton Vehicle: 1995 WRX White	So to start a car you need air, fuel and spark. Spark includes coil packs! As well as a battery and starter motor I guess. Maybe you're injectors suck or your fuel pump doesn't deliver. Have you tried turning your key to prime the pump first before starting your car every single time (can you hear the fuel flowing)? You need to start coming up with a consistent method for starting your car and then from there, think about if the engine is hot or cold, maybe that makes a difference. Then it will be easier to start troubleshooting.

10-16-2011, 01:16 AM	#3
DHRDAN Scooby Specialist Member#: 204358 Join Date: Feb 2009 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Santa Paula, CA. Vehicle: 01 2.5RS W/ EJ257 Black	100 bucks says you have wiring problems... whomever did your conversion is to blame. wiring problems. could be some random ground, could be some random relay... hell it could be a fuse.

10-16-2011, 12:03 PM	#4
stangod Scooby Newbie Member#: 148743 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Erie, PA Vehicle: 02 WRX & 99 RSTI Sedona	Wiring....I would look at cam/crank position sensor.

10-17-2011, 01:44 AM	#6
B-yap Scooby Newbie Member#: 258224 Join Date: Sep 2010 Chapter/Region: VIC Vehicle: 1995 Impreza WRX STI 2009 Honda Ruckus	My car did the same thing. Would randomly not want to start, then wait 5, 10 minutes or w/e and it would start right up. Ended up being a bad crank position sensor

10-17-2011, 11:32 AM	#8
69subaru360 Scooby Guru Member#: 159682 Join Date: Sep 2007 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Belfast Maine Vehicle: 1995 WRX	Nah, the check valve in the old pump is probably bad. It lets the fuel in the lines bleed back to the tank. That's why it starts if you prime it a few times by turning the key on and off before cranking.

10-17-2011, 12:41 PM	#9
elislider Scooby Specialist Member#: 133923 Join Date: Dec 2006 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Portland, OR Vehicle: 03 Legacy GT wagon I love goooollllllllddddd	who let DAN back in here the guy has a legit car, he's in Canada things to check have been stated already. coilpacks (look for cracks), fuel filter, crank/cam sensor, and check your grounds on the strut tower to make sure they are clean (take them off, sand a bit, put back).

10-21-2011, 09:38 AM	#11
sip Scooby Newbie Member#: 170475 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: N.S CANADA Vehicle: 1995 GF8 WRX Wagon GC8 STi RA ver. II	Strange but my GC8 sedan seems to be having trouble starting too. Even when I prime for 5 sec, it will start and then die out. I need to crank it twice to get it to start every time. These are low mileage cars too, the GF8 has 22K miles and the GC8 has 4K miles. Come to think of it the GC I had a couple years ago used to need to be started twice as well. There must be a very common issue and solution to this problem.

11-08-2011, 10:57 PM	#13
sip Scooby Newbie Member#: 170475 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: N.S CANADA Vehicle: 1995 GF8 WRX Wagon GC8 STi RA ver. II	OK so it is not the fuel filter, I replaced that and it seemed to work fine for a week. Then I drove to A&W ate a burger and then the damn thing wouldn't start. I had to walk home. I got a drive back the next day and it started up fine. I should replace the Fuel Pressure Regulator next? What North American FPR will replace the stock EJ20G?

11-09-2011, 11:19 AM	#14
TommyAtomic Scooby Newbie Member#: 257043 Join Date: Sep 2010 Chapter/Region: VIC Location: Vancouver BC Vehicle: 1993 JDM WRX Wagon Black	For me it was so big a pita to find an oem fpr that i got an aftermarket fpr. So first make sure fuel pressure is the issue. Get a fuel pressure guage hooked up so you can see what your starting fuel pressure is and what fuel pressure you are getting when it fails to start.