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Old 12-20-2012, 11:43 AM   #26
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post

Yup, things are happening. I'm actually working another spreadsheet for Phil right now. Well taking a break but fuzzy little details

I already gave him everyone's drag ratios.

-Micah
Thanks Micah!

Your compiled data helps out immensely!

I cant wait to start updating this thread with pics, be patient everyone.

-Phil
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:25 PM   #27
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i know it's early, but when woud you expect to be ready to sell these?
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:49 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowpr View Post
i know it's early, but when woud you expect to be ready to sell these?

We're still in the development stages. It will be a little while.

I'm hoping to get some estimated pricing available for NASIOC Members after the first of the year sometime.

The first initial sets of gears will go to a few vendors on here for feedback, then will be available for the general public sale.

What we're thinking is to do a group buy with deposits, but I'll post that info up later.

-Phil
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Old 12-25-2012, 06:09 AM   #29
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With a final of 4.44 in a Aus delivered GC8 I find the following ratios a good balance for race and street:
3, 2, 1.48, 1.17, 0.76
Cruises at just over 3000rpm for 110kph (68mph) and launches

Last edited by my99maddog; 01-01-2013 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 12-25-2012, 08:55 PM   #30
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Any thought given to keeping trans gears in a six speed stock but changing final drive to more like 3:55. Cars with much more than stock power levels don't really need as much gearing would be nice to get more speed out of each gear and more top end . Maybe there is a option I'm not aware off if so lmk
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:06 AM   #31
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^^^ thats not what Phil is doing here but Ive want some one to do the same thing your talking about.

All the hardcore autox folks I know are always trying to get another few MPH out of say 2nd gear up top with their 6spd. "Even the 07+ 6spd folks" We alway discuss theat a 3.7-3.5ish final drive would be great.


But kudos for working on a new 5spd option!!!

Ian @ Performance Auto Solutions
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:13 AM   #32
stiguy1976
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I knew this wasnt the perfect spot for final drive options but you never know where a good idea will come from or where the right person will read something !!
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:06 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiguy1976 View Post
Any thought given to keeping trans gears in a six speed stock but changing final drive to more like 3:55. Cars with much more than stock power levels don't really need as much gearing would be nice to get more speed out of each gear and more top end . Maybe there is a option I'm not aware off if so lmk
I want to keep both initial gear sets in the 5MT case to keep weight down.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:44 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiguy1976 View Post
Any thought given to keeping trans gears in a six speed stock but changing final drive to more like 3:55. Cars with much more than stock power levels don't really need as much gearing would be nice to get more speed out of each gear and more top end . Maybe there is a option I'm not aware off if so lmk
I think this is aimed more at the motorsports enthusiast, more so than the daily driver concerned with RPM at highway speed. Also being a 5-spd, you are going to already have a big step up on the 6-spd in regards to 'time' (difference in velocity) in gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexworx View Post
^^^ thats not what Phil is doing here but Ive want some one to do the same thing your talking about.

All the hardcore autox folks I know are always trying to get another few MPH out of say 2nd gear up top with their 6spd. "Even the 07+ 6spd folks" We alway discuss theat a 3.7-3.5ish final drive would be great.


But kudos for working on a new 5spd option!!!
That's because the 07 6-spd still has the same first and second gear ratios
However the 08+ does have a different PN for the 1,2, and 6 and IIRC only second gear changed ratios making it a bit taller.

Also note once again that he's talking about the 5-spd trans.
I'd LOVE to get a build 6-spd gearset in the TIC car, as we've already eaten stock 4th gear in our six speed and the wick wasn't even up.

-Micah
3MI Racing
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:09 PM   #35
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5MT first, once we have the road race box and drag box developed we'll tackle the 6MT

All in due time

-Phil
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:03 AM   #36
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These look very promising, hopefully the 6spds won't be too far behind.

i think there's more 6spd STI's in motorsports than 5spd wrx's

Yes the weight savings of the 5spd (80-100lbs) are big, but the strength of the 6spd case out weighs that advantage imho!
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:18 AM   #37
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Any ideas for strengthening the 5 speed case?
Wants to split under stress?
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:37 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waynoSTI View Post
These look very promising, hopefully the 6spds won't be too far behind.

i think there's more 6spd STI's in motorsports than 5spd wrx's

Yes the weight savings of the 5spd (80-100lbs) are big, but the strength of the 6spd case out weighs that advantage imho!
I should also note, since most don't know, that 6-spd dogboxes start in the $12k ballpark...for gears

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
Any ideas for strengthening the 5 speed case?
Wants to split under stress?
Oh, I've had plans for a while, just never had a chance ($$$) to carry them out. I'm thinking they'll be needed on the TIC car but to keep testing straight forward, I think we'll have to test in a stock case.

-Micah
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:03 PM   #39
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Hey guys no update yet, with the 24 hrs of Daytona coming up it's a busy time for them.

I promise I'll have something soon.

-Phil
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:13 PM   #40
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YAY!! finally an update!

EMCO.com



I met with the owner and mechanical engineer today, we went over the game plan and he's is going to give me final numbers here shortly (week or so)

The plan (some changes may be made) is to replace the following :

input/output shafts
1-2 straight cut gears to reduce loading
3-5 helical
billet shift forks
bearings

dog engagement


as soon as I get the final numbers, I'm going to put up a group buy.


ratios are TBD, they are going to design the gearbox for the best possible ratios and strength for road racing.

Here are some pics from today, I went on another tour and took some pics this time.

MADE IN THE U.S.A.


1500HP AWD Gears (I cannot divulge info unfortunately)











Please post up or PM with questions.

-Phil @ F4M
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:29 AM   #41
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Awesome! Can't wait to see the finished product.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:42 PM   #42
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Bueller........






This is great news guys!! a gear set that blows anything out there out of the water!

EMCO is the creme de la creme

They make Gears for Daytona Prototypes, Porsche GT series, Turner Motorsports BMW's, Ferrari, Lambo, the list goes on.

Sequential DP trans


They just developed the Nissan Delta wing trans.

EMCO transmissions are used in Grand-Am series racing, IRL, NASCAR, and other many various forms of Motorsport.

Let get the discussions flowing!
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:02 PM   #43
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Glad I just saw this. Got your email on the phone yesterday and need to reply.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:38 PM   #44
shadowpr
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so you're going to try and do the dogbox first? will you be doing sycros next?
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:02 PM   #45
Flat 4 Motorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowpr View Post
so you're going to try and do the dogbox first? will you be doing sycros next?

That's the plan, after looking at the OEM weak points.

If we do a dogbox we have more ability to make the gear bigger.

I can get a more detailed explanation if needed, but in lamens terms a syncro takes "thickness" away from gear.

Here is a side by side comparison of a syncro gear set next to an Albins dogbox



The other advantages of a dogbox, is the ability to quickly shift, and not having issues with lockout.

At high RPM's syncro'd gearboxes don't like to go into gear.

The OEM 5MT is made to go 100k+, therefore the materials used, ratios used are made for a daily commuter.

Ratio's also play a role in strength.

They felt that the issue with the 5MT case being weak was due to the actual gear design and not the case itself.


By swapping 1-2 gear and going to a spur gear (straight cut) causes the loading to become more axial. Also their shafts will have less run out.

I'm going off my notes here so if I got a term mixed up I apologize, I was trying to write and pay attention at the same time.

If anyone has a specific question they would like to know I can find out specifics and post up.

I should have numbers (cost) here shortly, I'm waiting on them to quote out the job with and without diffs.

If there are enough people who want a sycro'd set, we can go down that road, but they recommended the dogbox.

Thanks for the interest and I'm really looking forward to being able to get a company like EMCO involved with our cars!

We will be getting a gear set that has the same quality of material and workmanship that Indy cars, NASCAR, and Grand-Am series race cars have.

and of course they're made in the U.S.A.

No waiting around for something to ship from Australia or Malaysia, and support that is local (stateside).



-Phil @ F4M

Last edited by Flat 4 Motorsport; 01-12-2013 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:42 PM   #46
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I want a 5 speed dog box. Trade you my 6 speed for r&d...
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:30 PM   #47
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You better consider warranty with this. There is another manufacturer with a one year warranty on their gears. That warranty covers street and drag/road racing as well. That's a large hill to climb.
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Old 01-14-2013, 03:14 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
You better consider warranty with this. There is another manufacturer with a one year warranty on their gears. That warranty covers street and drag/road racing as well. That's a large hill to climb.



60ft or 60 seconds how's that?

how are you supposed to warranty someone shifting properly?


There will be no warranty on racing parts.

These gears can handle a 3000lb car at 700ft lbs of torque for 24 hrs @ Daytona I think that speaks for itself.

These are not from a run of the mill, fly by night operation, these are from EMCO Gears.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:19 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
Any ideas for strengthening the 5 speed case?
Wants to split under stress?
I had thought about that many times and I think a girdle would work.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:30 AM   #50
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Updates? And how come it's a straight cut 1&2 and a helical cut 3&4? Why not a Straight cut 1-4?
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