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Old 10-21-2011, 11:25 PM   #1
stubbie
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Default EJ25 Supercharge hybrid build.

Ok, so I'm not the first to do this build but i am going about this in a different method.

First this motor is for my second gen Legacy Wagon Gt. After the head gaskets started acting up i replaced them only to have the new cam seals go and hemorrhage oil all over the NJ turnpike. Good times.

I was inspired by the other Superchargers in the forums and decide other than having the EJ25D rebuild i would just build it. I am using an Eaton M62 Whipple 1200AX blower mounted directly on top of the intake manifold. I know I'm CrazZy!

I'm going to remake the accessory brackets with 3/16 cold rolled steel to reduce space and relocate the alternator to the passenger side. From there the blower will be mounted in the middle. I will be cutting off the left and right hand sides of the IM at about the high point, welding 3/8 thick flanges on them then milling the flanges true. Then i will make an plenum that will bolt to the blower and the flanges. I'm on the fence as to how i want to fabricate it. i would love to cast it in my foundry but im not sure i have the time to do it with making patterns and all. But we will see, and i will have lots of fire fill pictures LOL Yeah that's not going to happen, still would love! to cast a new IM but i found its a lot cheaper to make friends with a good tig welder and pay in beer, lots and lots of beer. that ensures good quality and years of guaranteed service


The hybrid will consist of the heads from my EJ25D and the short block of a 04 EJ257. My local machine shop will be assembling the motor for me as they will give me a warranty on it. My wish list for the heads is a valve adjust 3* and a regrind on the cams but we will see.

Items already purchased:

EJ257 Short Block 62K miles
M62 Blower:100K mile (rebuild)
Greddy E manage ultimate, from my old Z31

Next to purchase:
STi fuel rails with FPR (stock)
STi fuel pump.
GM 2 Bar Map
AFR Kit.
Boost Vacuum gauge.

Misc hardware and material

Total build estimate $2500

Any helpful hints trick and insults all welcome!
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Last edited by stubbie; 07-24-2013 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 10-22-2011, 02:35 AM   #2
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This sounds very cool. I'm happy to see others doing differant things. But..my question would be why? I'm not hating or anything but if you actually see other peoples threads they put at least 5-10k in their builds and a turbo will still make power quicker and hold it longer then a supercharged subie. I'm no expert in the field but just sounds like its not worth it.

Id really like to see this come together tho. These setups really put a smile on my face
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Old 10-22-2011, 04:11 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsubiemod View Post
This sounds very cool. I'm happy to see others doing differant things. But..my question would be why? I'm not hating or anything but if you actually see other peoples threads they put at least 5-10k in their builds and a turbo will still make power quicker and hold it longer then a supercharged subie. I'm no expert in the field but just sounds like its not worth it.

Id really like to see this come together tho. These setups really put a smile on my face
Absolutely not true...cost to me to supercharge my impreza; roughly $1300. A lot cheaper than a swap. I'm making 220awp and trq at 5psi; and it certainly make the power much quicker than almost every turbo setup.
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Old 10-22-2011, 05:14 AM   #4
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220AWHP really doesn't sound worth it to me. But that's just my opinion.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:54 AM   #5
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I love unique builds and 220awhp is more than a stock wrx, for cheaper than a swap. Not bad IMO.
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:19 AM   #6
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Default Oh the old question SC or Turbo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsubiemod View Post
This sounds very cool. I'm happy to see others doing differant things. But..my question would be why? I'm not hating or anything but if you actually see other peoples threads they put at least 5-10k in their builds and a turbo will still make power quicker and hold it longer then a supercharged subie. I'm no expert in the field but just sounds like its not worth it.

Id really like to see this come together tho. These setups really put a smile on my face
I'm hoping to avoid the SC vs Turbo debates, i know how HOT they can get.

I chose to go SC because doing a full swap in a 2nd gen leggie would run me 6K. Engine, ECU harness, not to mention ripping my dash to pieces to get it all to work for just a gain in 60 hp before mods.

The one benefit of a SC is the low end torque and the instant boost gratification from a stop. However the down side is the drag on the engine, heat soak, and massive intake mods.

With the short block purchased and the SC purchased im already way under budget, @ only 1300 spent leaving me 1200 for the rest.

This was my personal choice for the driving i plan on doing.
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:20 AM   #7
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Rethink trying to cut and weld to your intake, you are basically building the st-x motor, which is what my plans are for, just buy some tgv's from a wrx delete them and then you just need to make a flange for your charge pipe to connect to the top of them. That way it looks cleaner and it gives you the ports for your injectors.

Also I see your using a sti block which means low compression before the supercharger, you may want to rethink that with an m62 since even the high compression guys are only getting 220 out of that setup, but of course you can up the psi unlike them but I still think you would be disappointed. You may want to either bump to an m90 or get some manly 9:1 cr pistons to drop in which gives you forged pistons for even more boost as well as up your compression ratio to make it like a supercharged n/a.

Last edited by KOJAK-02-WRX; 10-22-2011 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 10-22-2011, 05:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsubiemod View Post
220AWHP really doesn't sound worth it to me. But that's just my opinion.
5psi of boost....change pulley size=more boost
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Old 10-22-2011, 08:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOJAK-02-WRX View Post
Rethink trying to cut and weld to your intake, you are basically building the st-x motor, which is what my plans are for, just buy some tgv's from a wrx delete them and then you just need to make a flange for your charge pipe to connect to the top of them. That way it looks cleaner and it gives you the ports for your injectors.

Also I see your using a sti block which means low compression before the supercharger, you may want to rethink that with an m62 since even the high compression guys are only getting 220 out of that setup, but of course you can up the psi unlike them but I still think you would be disappointed. You may want to either bump to an m90
Awful lot or rethinking there.

I was going to build a full IM but i dont have the time and this is faster, but on to the Boost. An M62 blower is optimized for engines from 2.5 to 4L, I think i have a fair bit of head room with that, and as far as the STi short block goes it has forged pistons to start and when combo'd with a set of EJ25D heads the compression will be bumped to ~9:1. Which will handle the boost with lower chance of knock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KOJAK-02-WRX View Post
or get some manly 9:1 cr pistons to drop in which gives you forged pistons for even more boost as well as up your compression ratio to make it like a supercharged n/a.
And how does Bumping compression make it like a supercharged? When you increase compression all you are doing is squeezing the fuel air charge in the cylinder harder before igniting it. a supercharger and turbo forces MORE air and fuel into a given cylinder causing the compression to be increase even more. for example 15:1 and greater.

Also never heard of an ST-X sorry, got any info on that?


Also TVGs will not bolt up to a 25D heads. i wish they would make life easy. if i get into casting maybe ill make set for the 25d head.

Last edited by stubbie; 10-23-2011 at 08:04 PM. Reason: new info found.
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:16 PM   #10
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Default STi MAF or not

I am going to be running my new set up on my stock ECU with E manage handling the mods.

Should i swap out my MAF with an STi MAF.
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubbie

Awful lot or rethinking there.

I was going to build a full IM but i dont have the time and this is faster, but on to the Boost. An M62 blower is optimized for engines from 2.5 to 4L, I think i have a fair bit of head room with that, and as far as the STi short block goes it has forged pistons to start and when combo'd with a set of EJ25D heads the compression will be bumped to ~9:1. Which will handle the boost with lower chance of knock.

And how does Bumping compression make it like a supercharged? When you increase compression all you are doing is squeezing the fuel air charge in the cylinder harder before igniting it. a supercharger and turbo forces MORE air and fuel into a given cylinder causing the compression to be increase even more. for example 15:1 and greater.

Also never heard of an ST-X sorry, got any info on that?
Don't believe pistons are forged on any subaru blocks just the rods which is why most people swap just the pistons out on brand new shotblocks but could be wrong.

I meant by using the 9:1cr pistons it puts you at a N/A cr engine a little under 10:1 so it would be a forged internals N/A block essentially. So you could run it without the supercharger if you wanted.

Seems to me cutting and trying to weld onto cast aluminum would be a lot harder the welding a flange to some pipe but that's just me.

Look up ST-X concept and it is a baja
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Old 10-23-2011, 11:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOJAK-02-WRX View Post
Don't believe pistons are forged on any subaru blocks just the rods which is why most people swap just the pistons out on brand new shotblocks but could be wrong.

I meant by using the 9:1cr pistons it puts you at a N/A cr engine a little under 10:1 so it would be a forged internals N/A block essentially. So you could run it without the supercharger if you wanted.

Seems to me cutting and trying to weld onto cast aluminum would be a lot harder the welding a flange to some pipe but that's just me.

Look up ST-X concept and it is a baja
Yes having 10:1 compression would be great if i where to ever pull the SC. however in my case this is unlikely and when you start running higher compression on any any engine you run the tremendous risk of ping. I am building this engine for DD. so a slightly lower compression from stock with 5 psi at the blower will be barely noticeable on start from a stop. and if i feel like i dont have enough off the line boost, i will shrink the pulley size

As for the IM i have welded aluminum plate to cast, its a PITA but doable.

the ST-X concept is nice but by far not the first.

Im not trying to knock on your post, all good suggestion thank you
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Old 10-23-2011, 12:42 PM   #13
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fit electric power steering unit
use the space from the power steering unit as the pulley for the sc
run the sc imput drive under the manifold and mount the sc at the back of the im plenty space and right close to throttle body
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Old 10-23-2011, 01:21 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 3barboost View Post
fit electric power steering unit
use the space from the power steering unit as the pulley for the sc
run the sc imput drive under the manifold and mount the sc at the back of the im plenty space and right close to throttle body
I'm not sure how i feel about routing the SC drive line under the IM but i am very interested in the electric power steering. good concept! i like it!
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:00 AM   #15
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No intercooler and SC is ok......... But........

Do you have E85?

better safer than sorry.....
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:47 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddevil View Post
No intercooler and SC is ok......... But........

Do you have E85?

better safer than sorry.....
I'm sure E85 is out here somewhere, never looked for it. It would be nice to run a higher octane fuel, i would get more HP then on regular. however the down side to E85 is i need to run more of it in order to match the power of an equivalent gasoline. I will still be running an EGR plus a colder set of plugs to keep the combustion camber temps down. i would love to cool the intake charge, and i have a plan for a future upgrade for it (water to air cooler) but at the moment its two involved. also running lower boost on an engine that normally sees more will be a help to.

Thank for the input!!
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:22 PM   #17
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Default WOOOOO Exciting!!

Just received the 04 STi short block. stuck the M62 on top and measured it up. going to fit like a glove. need to mod the coolent cross tube but that is no biggie

Pics soon to come!!!

Does anyone know what the intercooler hoses are made from a good source for them.

Last edited by stubbie; 10-25-2011 at 02:28 PM. Reason: new question
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:02 PM   #18
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I have decided to add the top mount intercooler. but i know that the small LGT hood scoop is a tad asthmatic for air flow so i will be placing two 8" fans under the TMIC and i have build up a circuit to run the fans only when the intake air temp hits a certain range. to adjust the temp im using a pot. the fans are 450 cfm and $40 each. if anyone is interested i will post up the schematic and parts list.
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Old 11-13-2011, 04:42 PM   #19
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Just pulled the motor, but before it came out i threw the SC on top.

Also i have decided to use the TMIC. that just came in, once the motor comes back from the shop ill trough it in and start the manifolds. now going to learn how to make trumpets!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60618858@N04/6337854625/

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Old 11-13-2011, 06:09 PM   #20
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you can pick up Mikuni 52mm Aluminum trumpets for old Carb'd sport bikes for about $20 a piece... I think i have a set of 4 lying around still from a 13b PP setup i built for an RX7.


nice engine kitty. lol
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Old 11-13-2011, 07:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bewst12psi View Post
you can pick up Mikuni 52mm Aluminum trumpets for old Carb'd sport bikes for about $20 a piece... I think i have a set of 4 lying around still from a 13b PP setup i built for an RX7.
awesome, i have been looking for sources of velocity stacks.


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Originally Posted by bewst12psi View Post
nice engine kitty. lol
yeah found her hiding behind my alternator above the headers. I'm glad she screamed, scared me but not as much as that 5.0 scared her, lol
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:21 PM   #22
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Any updates on this? I'm interested in doing a similar setup for my Impreza, but I'd be running WRX heads, WRX crank, 100mm JE pistons and long rods as far as the bottom end goes (I'm effectively using the supercharger to overcome the relative lack of low end torque). Have you considered an air bypass valve to help with engine load and fuel economy? Whipple uses them on their units, and they're supposed to help immensely.

~ Scott
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:00 AM   #23
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the standard pistons will take a pretty good beating.

<-- raptor SC, 13.5:1 AFR's, no intercooler, 6psi, 175kw.
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Old 12-18-2011, 08:59 AM   #24
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Didnt realize this was an old thread, now im interested... OP update?
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Old 12-18-2011, 09:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohemian_Funk View Post
Any updates on this? I'm interested in doing a similar setup for my Impreza, but I'd be running WRX heads, WRX crank, 100mm JE pistons and long rods as far as the bottom end goes (I'm effectively using the supercharger to overcome the relative lack of low end torque). Have you considered an air bypass valve to help with engine load and fuel economy? Whipple uses them on their units, and they're supposed to help immensely.

~ Scott
Sorry no new updates, getting cold here in jersey and not much of a garage to work in. My engine is in the shop, i have 1/2 of the new manifold made but i will take pictures when it looks like a manifold. Yes i will be using a bypass valve. i have started machining parts for that at work in my down as to which i do not have a lot right now. I would love to have a whipple but yes they do improve cruse efficiency as you are remove drag from the blower. I am currently adapting a M62 long nose on to my blower and i am still sourcing a thick aluminum plate to do it.

What year is your car and which WRX are you sourcing heads from? I'm no suby guru but if you have a EJ25 phase 1 car your harness will not be plug and play with the cam sensors. but like i said im no guru. also goes the same with crank #3 thrust versus #5 thrust and so on.

i want the SC for the same low end power your aiming for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
the standard pistons will take a pretty good beating.

<-- raptor SC, 13.5:1 AFR's, no intercooler, 6psi, 175kw.
STi pistons @ 300 hp stock compared to the 200+ i'm aiming for, yes they will handle the abuse


Quote:
Originally Posted by shano View Post
Didnt realize this was an old thread, now im interested... OP update?
Not much other waiting on the motor at the machine shop and a laundry list of small items to fab. I'm hoping Jan and Feb to be more fruitful months
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