Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday December 28, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning > AccessPort

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-23-2011, 12:34 AM   #1
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default A couple of noob questions about the Cobb AP...

I think the title explains it all, so I'll just get on with it.

I have a 2008 WRX, running only on a K&N Typhoon. I recently bought a catless downpipe, and I have a Cobb AP on the way. I bought the car new on Jan 2010, and I just started putting some work into it, apart from the fact that I'm new to turbo'ed engines and Subies as well (hence the title). So, on to the questions.

Could I run the stage 2+ map with the dp only, no catback? Cobb describes its maps to be "good starting points" to tune for your specific mods, so I was wondering if it would be safe to flash the ecu with the stage 2+ with my (soon to be) current setup so I can datalog and see what needs to be changed.

My second question... Am I obligated to flash the ecu in order for the AP to work? Meaning, can I use the AP alone for datalogging before I actually flash the ecu with one of their maps? I want to go little by little, seeing how changes to the ecu affect driving behavior before I start going all the way.

My third question... What AFR value should I be aiming for? I was looking at the Cobb Dyno Database and mostly saw values within low 11's (11.2-11.5) on mildly modified WRX's, so I'm guessing that's the route I should start with. I still want to hear what others have to say.

I'm planning to go for a catback as well, but it's going to be a while before I do, so all I need is some help understanding what can and can't be done.

Any info will be helpful, but if you feel the need to mock me, or flame me, I don't mind criticism, so feel free to write whatever it is that pops into your head when you read this.

Thanks in advance.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 10:35 AM   #2
Cobb Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cianuro View Post
I think the title explains it all, so I'll just get on with it.

I have a 2008 WRX, running only on a K&N Typhoon. I recently bought a catless downpipe, and I have a Cobb AP on the way. I bought the car new on Jan 2010, and I just started putting some work into it, apart from the fact that I'm new to turbo'ed engines and Subies as well (hence the title). So, on to the questions.

Could I run the stage 2+ map with the dp only, no catback? Cobb describes its maps to be "good starting points" to tune for your specific mods, so I was wondering if it would be safe to flash the ecu with the stage 2+ with my (soon to be) current setup so I can datalog and see what needs to be changed.

My second question... Am I obligated to flash the ecu in order for the AP to work? Meaning, can I use the AP alone for datalogging before I actually flash the ecu with one of their maps? I want to go little by little, seeing how changes to the ecu affect driving behavior before I start going all the way.

My third question... What AFR value should I be aiming for? I was looking at the Cobb Dyno Database and mostly saw values within low 11's (11.2-11.5) on mildly modified WRX's, so I'm guessing that's the route I should start with. I still want to hear what others have to say.

I'm planning to go for a catback as well, but it's going to be a while before I do, so all I need is some help understanding what can and can't be done.

Any info will be helpful, but if you feel the need to mock me, or flame me, I don't mind criticism, so feel free to write whatever it is that pops into your head when you read this.

Thanks in advance.
Hi there.

Yes, you would run the stage 2 map with an aftermarket downpipe with the stock catback. Power may be down a little compared to a full turbo back exhaust. Keep in mind that we recommend a catted downpipe as these cars can sometimes exhibit "boost creep" with a catless exhaust, which is a mechanical phenomenon in which you can overboost regardless of the tune. Using a catted exhaust reduces the chances of this greatly (using the stock catback with catless DP may do the same thing).

The K&N intake is not supported by our maps. Intakes are a special consideration for the maps because if the intake used is not calibrated for by the map, there can be issues in determining the correct airflow and therefore, fueling and timing can be off (not good). For your car, we currently have maps for the stock intake, Cobb SF intake and the AEM intake. You can use any one of those (and the corresponding map) or you could get a custom tune from a Cobb protuner for the K&N intake.

Yes, you must install the AP in order to use the data logging features. If you wish to data log the stock tune, we do have the "stock installed mode" maps available that you can download and reflash. Then you'll be able to log the stock tune with the AP still installed.

While you can monitor the front oxygen sensor via the AP, its location in the exhaust and the fact that the engine control unit (ECU) limits its reading to 11:1 AFR, does not make it useful for monitoring AFR under notable boost. If you have a wideband o2 sensor, that is the best way to monitor AFR, which can be done via the AccessTUNER Race software.

Bill
Cobb Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 11:04 AM   #3
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

Obviously, a Cobb rep would provide plenty of useful info. Thanks for that!

As for the wideband, I can get one for tuning, no problem. For the K&N, I can probably get it tuned here with a friend with previous tuning experience (Mazda only). He has not worked with the AP before, but he has mentioned thinking about getting one for his MS3. Let's see how much he likes it...

What should I be looking for when tuning for the K&N?

I'll take all that info in and get back when I do some actual testing.
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2011, 12:05 AM   #4
Cobb Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cianuro View Post
Obviously, a Cobb rep would provide plenty of useful info. Thanks for that!

As for the wideband, I can get one for tuning, no problem. For the K&N, I can probably get it tuned here with a friend with previous tuning experience (Mazda only). He has not worked with the AP before, but he has mentioned thinking about getting one for his MS3. Let's see how much he likes it...

What should I be looking for when tuning for the K&N?

I'll take all that info in and get back when I do some actual testing.
You'll need to request a download of the AccessTUNER Race (ATR) software for your vehicle:
http://accessecu.com/register/cobb.php

We have some tuning guides/worksheets here for Subaru ATR (there's a section on intake calibration in the tuning guide):
http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/sho...et-for-Subarus

Some monitor names have changed in more recents software/firmware versions compared to what is referenced in the guide (old name -> new name):
"A/F Trim Immed."-> "A/F Correction #1"
"A/F Trim Learned" -> "A/F Learning #1"

Bill
Cobb Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2011, 10:37 AM   #5
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
You'll need to request a download of the AccessTUNER Race (ATR) software for your vehicle:
http://accessecu.com/register/cobb.php

We have some tuning guides/worksheets here for Subaru ATR (there's a section on intake calibration in the tuning guide):
http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/sho...et-for-Subarus

Some monitor names have changed in more recents software/firmware versions compared to what is referenced in the guide (old name -> new name):
"A/F Trim Immed."-> "A/F Correction #1"
"A/F Trim Learned" -> "A/F Learning #1"

Bill
OK. Here's a doubt...

I just got the AP this morning. I installed the AP manager, but the instructions said to do it on the car before the PC, and after the AP manager recognized the AP, it stopped doing so after installing AccessTuner Race. I have Windows 7 64-bit, so would this be the problem?

Also, I went to the car to install it, but the AP doesn't show either the stock map or the stage 1+. Since I only have the K&N to start with, I don't know which one to choose because there are no "+" installed in the AP.

The AP manager showed the AP to be up-to-date, but no maps were shown, and I don't know if I can just download the maps from the Cobb database and upload them. Can I?
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2011, 11:18 AM   #6
Cobb Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cianuro View Post
OK. Here's a doubt...

I just got the AP this morning. I installed the AP manager, but the instructions said to do it on the car before the PC, and after the AP manager recognized the AP, it stopped doing so after installing AccessTuner Race. I have Windows 7 64-bit, so would this be the problem?

Also, I went to the car to install it, but the AP doesn't show either the stock map or the stage 1+. Since I only have the K&N to start with, I don't know which one to choose because there are no "+" installed in the AP.

The AP manager showed the AP to be up-to-date, but no maps were shown, and I don't know if I can just download the maps from the Cobb database and upload them. Can I?
That is an odd issue. I would go ahead and download the latest AP Manager and re-install:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/support

The "+" designation is for the Cobb SF or AEM intake. These are only downloadable from our cobbtuning site. You can download maps from the site and transfer them to your AP via the AP Manager software. But, just because these are for aftermarket intakes does not mean it will be better to use them as a starting point for tuning the K&N intake. I would just start with the stock intake map. In this case, if you have not installed your downpipe, then you would just use the stage 1 map corresponding to the octane gas you use (91 ACN - Arizona/ California/Nevada, 91 - all other states, or 93).

Bill
Cobb Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2011, 12:09 PM   #7
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning
That is an odd issue. I would go ahead and download the latest AP Manager and re-install:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/support

The "+" designation is for the Cobb SF or AEM intake. These are only downloadable from our cobbtuning site. You can download maps from the site and transfer them to your AP via the AP Manager software. But, just because these are for aftermarket intakes does not mean it will be better to use them as a starting point for tuning the K&N intake. I would just start with the stock intake map. In this case, if you have not installed your downpipe, then you would just use the stage 1 map corresponding to the octane gas you use (91 ACN - Arizona/ California/Nevada, 91 - all other states, or 93).

Bill
Ok. Flashing now, will try the link meanwhile.

Is it normal for the temp gage on the cluster to go all the way to HOT while flashing?
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2011, 12:13 PM   #8
Cobb Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cianuro View Post
Ok. Flashing now, will try the link meanwhile.

Is it normal for the temp gage on the cluster to go all the way to HOT while flashing?
Yes.

Bill
Cobb Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2011, 12:25 PM   #9
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
Yes.

Bill
Now I know... Just finished flashing the Stage 1 map and I'm now installing the AP manager from the link... Finally!!!

Ok. My PC finally recognized the AP, I can see all the maps, and all the downloaded maps from the database.

Since it'll be a couple more days before I install the DP, I'll come back here later on with other questions, if any.

I already registered at cobbforums, so I'll address my more tech questions there as well. THANKS A LOT!!!
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2011, 08:16 PM   #10
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

What would be a good learning period? I flashed it for the first time and drove for about 15 min before I went WOT. It felt a bit sluggish at first, but the target boost was being reached, and the AFR showed 11.1:1 all the way through the RPMs. It also felt a bit slower going through RPMs, but I didn't have a long enough stretch of road to do some proper testing. I did feel pushed back to the seat once the boost hits target.

I'll be doing some more testing tomorrow, along with some datalogging with the AP to see what's going on. The car felt like it had a misfire, but no codes came up. I'll drive it a bit longer tomorrow and do some 2K to 6700rpm pulls while I datalog to try and see what would need to be changed.
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 11:24 AM   #11
Cobb Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cianuro View Post
What would be a good learning period? I flashed it for the first time and drove for about 15 min before I went WOT. It felt a bit sluggish at first, but the target boost was being reached, and the AFR showed 11.1:1 all the way through the RPMs. It also felt a bit slower going through RPMs, but I didn't have a long enough stretch of road to do some proper testing. I did feel pushed back to the seat once the boost hits target.

I'll be doing some more testing tomorrow, along with some datalogging with the AP to see what's going on. The car felt like it had a misfire, but no codes came up. I'll drive it a bit longer tomorrow and do some 2K to 6700rpm pulls while I datalog to try and see what would need to be changed.
Yeah, best thing to do is to get a data log. There's some drive-by-wire throttle learning that does make the throttle response feel at little soft after a reflash. But, it shouldn't take long to learn. You also have the dynamic advance multiplier (DAM) that will start at an initial value after a reflash (initial value depends on map) and then learns up to 1.0 (for 2.5L cars). Before it learns up to 1.0, you will not be running full timing at moderate to high load.

Bill
Cobb Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 11:37 AM   #12
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
Yeah, best thing to do is to get a data log. There's some drive-by-wire throttle learning that does make the throttle response feel at little soft after a reflash. But, it shouldn't take long to learn. You also have the dynamic advance multiplier (DAM) that will start at an initial value after a reflash (initial value depends on map) and then learns up to 1.0 (for 2.5L cars). Before it learns up to 1.0, you will not be running full timing at moderate to high load.

Bill
I had the stage1+, and I kept thinking last night that, if the car ran ok with the K&N, I should just try the stage1 and see how it goes.

Right after I flashed it, I let it warm up for a couple of minutes and started driving. I ran it for about 1/2 an hour without boosting, but keeping revs between 2500 and 3000. Once the 1/2 hour went by, I started pushing it a little. The sluggishness went completely away, boost was steady, and the AFR at 11.1:1. The car felt great.

I did some datalogging, so I'll get it out when I get home.

Thanks for the support. I'll keep you posted.
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 01:05 PM   #13
Cobb Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cianuro View Post
I had the stage1+, and I kept thinking last night that, if the car ran ok with the K&N, I should just try the stage1 and see how it goes.

Right after I flashed it, I let it warm up for a couple of minutes and started driving. I ran it for about 1/2 an hour without boosting, but keeping revs between 2500 and 3000. Once the 1/2 hour went by, I started pushing it a little. The sluggishness went completely away, boost was steady, and the AFR at 11.1:1. The car felt great.

I did some datalogging, so I'll get it out when I get home.

Thanks for the support. I'll keep you posted.
It sounds like you are using the front o2 sensor to monitor fueling. The ECU limits its reading to 11:1 AFR and it also isn't terribly accurate under boost. You need to have a wideband o2 sensor if you want to accurately monitor fueling in open loop (and tune for the intake in open loop). In closed loop, you can look at A/F Correction 1 and A/F Learning 1 to see how far off you are with the K&N intake.

Bill
Cobb Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2011, 01:08 PM   #14
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning
It sounds like you are using the front o2 sensor to monitor fueling. The ECU limits its reading to 11:1 AFR and it also isn't terribly accurate under boost. You need to have a wideband o2 sensor if you want to accurately monitor fueling in open loop (and tune for the intake in open loop). In closed loop, you can look at A/F Correction 1 and A/F Learning 1 to see how far off you are with the K&N intake.

Bill
Ok. I'll take it easy until thursday which when I should have the wideband.
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 10:00 PM   #15
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

First off, thanks for all your answers as they've been very helpful. Second, this will probably be a long read, so I'm saying sorry in advance. I'll go by topics so I don't mix everything up, starting from the beginning.

Downpipe installed
I finally got around to installing my dp this morning. It's a catless, nameless one. Catback remains stock.

Flashing
I flashed the stage 2 93 to the car and let it warm up for a couple of minutes. From what I've read through your other answers throughout NASIOC, I did some normal driving without WOT or boosting until I saw the DAM go to 1. Once I reached that parameter, I did a couple of pulls in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears.

Boost
No problem here. The target was being reached without a hitch, and the tapering down was normal as well.

Knocking
We had the AP showing LiveData for this parameter. We went through several WOT runs, and the value stayed at 0.0. Now, we did get some knocking values, but this was not at WOT. It happened during normal 55mph driving without forcing the car, but it coincided with bumps on the road. There was a part of the road that had some uneven tar patches, and the AP would show readings of ~-3 that became 0.0 again once we passed the patches.

I read on another thread that rattling from exhaust piping, and even a loose heat shield could cause this. We made some rough movements on the exhaust piping before we went out, to verify it wasn't hitting anywhere. Also, my heat shield was not installed. So, should I be worried?

Fueling
Here's my problem... Since the AP doesn't get below 11.1, my friend brought a LM-2 Innovate wideband. We calibrated it and left it in to check (and maybe datalog) what was going on. Once I started the pulls, guess what? I'm running rich as hell! We saw some very low readings at the begining, but after a couple of pulls, the readings were all the same: 9.0:1.

I know that the K&N might be a part of the problem since the map is intended for the factory intake system. How do I change fueling, and what else would be affected from the changes?

We did a Live Tracing, and my friend showed me the problem. He told me what needed to be changed and that it looked simple, but he wanted me to ask you the questions above, so there they are.

Datalogging... What a PITA!
First, I blame most of the problem on my PC. It crashed on me last night, and this morning during the runs. My PC had some updates installed right after the ATR installation. We tried 2 forms of datalogging: AP through ATR and the Innovate LM-2.

AP through ATR
After driving the car for 4 hours, just looking at some of the LiveData on the AP and the AFR from the LM-2, the ATR only worked once, which is when we were able to do the Live Tracing. We had problems with the ATR not seeing the AP. We knew the AP was being recognized as the AP manager connected to it without problems, so the ATR was making us crazy. We tried everything, from uninstalling/reinstalling it, to changing USB ports, with no luck. I had to reboot the pc several times. The drivers were being installed, and you would get the progress bar when "Connect to ECU" command was given, but the software would freeze or crash. Basically, we couldn't do crap because the only good connection we had was when I was reaching my mom's house because somebody broke in and we had to stop the testing.

Could it be my PC? Or are there bugs or updates I'm not aware of?

Innovate LM-2
Instead of datalogging, we mainly used this for AFR. We threw in some gauges in the LogWorks software, but since we wanted the AP to do the datalogging, in combination with the LM-2, we just forgot about this.

ATR would not recognize the LM-2 either. I saw the option, chose the port ( which was the only one available), but the readings would stay at 0.0 on the ATR software. We had a couple of successful connections to the ATR, but these only lasted minutes before the software either crashed or freezed. We did notice that, while the "Connect to ECU" choice was selected, you would not be able to find the config options for the LM-1, or any other external wideband for that matter. Why is this? Is the LM-2 compatible with ATR?

Are other Innovate products compatible? Which system would you recommend that is compatible and comes with a normal gauge I can mount in my car (via gauge pod) and use to log data through ATR?

Again, sorry for the long read, and thanks in advance.
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2011, 10:58 AM   #16
Cobb Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cianuro View Post
First off, thanks for all your answers as they've been very helpful. Second, this will probably be a long read, so I'm saying sorry in advance. I'll go by topics so I don't mix everything up, starting from the beginning.

Downpipe installed
I finally got around to installing my dp this morning. It's a catless, nameless one. Catback remains stock.

Flashing
I flashed the stage 2 93 to the car and let it warm up for a couple of minutes. From what I've read through your other answers throughout NASIOC, I did some normal driving without WOT or boosting until I saw the DAM go to 1. Once I reached that parameter, I did a couple of pulls in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears.

Boost
No problem here. The target was being reached without a hitch, and the tapering down was normal as well.

Knocking
We had the AP showing LiveData for this parameter. We went through several WOT runs, and the value stayed at 0.0. Now, we did get some knocking values, but this was not at WOT. It happened during normal 55mph driving without forcing the car, but it coincided with bumps on the road. There was a part of the road that had some uneven tar patches, and the AP would show readings of ~-3 that became 0.0 again once we passed the patches.

I read on another thread that rattling from exhaust piping, and even a loose heat shield could cause this. We made some rough movements on the exhaust piping before we went out, to verify it wasn't hitting anywhere. Also, my heat shield was not installed. So, should I be worried?

Fueling
Here's my problem... Since the AP doesn't get below 11.1, my friend brought a LM-2 Innovate wideband. We calibrated it and left it in to check (and maybe datalog) what was going on. Once I started the pulls, guess what? I'm running rich as hell! We saw some very low readings at the begining, but after a couple of pulls, the readings were all the same: 9.0:1.

I know that the K&N might be a part of the problem since the map is intended for the factory intake system. How do I change fueling, and what else would be affected from the changes?

We did a Live Tracing, and my friend showed me the problem. He told me what needed to be changed and that it looked simple, but he wanted me to ask you the questions above, so there they are.

Datalogging... What a PITA!
First, I blame most of the problem on my PC. It crashed on me last night, and this morning during the runs. My PC had some updates installed right after the ATR installation. We tried 2 forms of datalogging: AP through ATR and the Innovate LM-2.

AP through ATR
After driving the car for 4 hours, just looking at some of the LiveData on the AP and the AFR from the LM-2, the ATR only worked once, which is when we were able to do the Live Tracing. We had problems with the ATR not seeing the AP. We knew the AP was being recognized as the AP manager connected to it without problems, so the ATR was making us crazy. We tried everything, from uninstalling/reinstalling it, to changing USB ports, with no luck. I had to reboot the pc several times. The drivers were being installed, and you would get the progress bar when "Connect to ECU" command was given, but the software would freeze or crash. Basically, we couldn't do crap because the only good connection we had was when I was reaching my mom's house because somebody broke in and we had to stop the testing.

Could it be my PC? Or are there bugs or updates I'm not aware of?

Innovate LM-2
Instead of datalogging, we mainly used this for AFR. We threw in some gauges in the LogWorks software, but since we wanted the AP to do the datalogging, in combination with the LM-2, we just forgot about this.

ATR would not recognize the LM-2 either. I saw the option, chose the port ( which was the only one available), but the readings would stay at 0.0 on the ATR software. We had a couple of successful connections to the ATR, but these only lasted minutes before the software either crashed or freezed. We did notice that, while the "Connect to ECU" choice was selected, you would not be able to find the config options for the LM-1, or any other external wideband for that matter. Why is this? Is the LM-2 compatible with ATR?

Are other Innovate products compatible? Which system would you recommend that is compatible and comes with a normal gauge I can mount in my car (via gauge pod) and use to log data through ATR?

Again, sorry for the long read, and thanks in advance.
The LM-2 is not supported by AccessTUNER, but you can follow the LM-1 instructions here to see if it will work (it may not):
http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/sho...-Race-software.

You can log the "Comm Fuel Final" monitor to determine what the final fueling target is for your map to compare it to the wideband. To make sure the wideband is reading correctly, I would compare it to the front o2 sensor's reading at idle or cruise ("A/F Sensor 1 Ratio"). You may want to try calibrating the sensor again if it is notably off from the front o2.

The guide at the following link describes intake calibration:
http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/sho...et-for-Subarus

We have made some monitor name changes since that guide was created:
"A/F Trim Immed."-> "A/F Correction #1"
"A/F Trim Learned" -> "A/F Learning #1"

As far as the knock you are seeing - if that directly coincides with the bumps in the road then you may have something loose in the engine bay.

Bill
Cobb Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 09:13 AM   #17
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
The LM-2 is not supported by AccessTUNER, but you can follow the LM-1 instructions here to see if it will work (it may not):
http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/sho...-Race-software.

You can log the "Comm Fuel Final" monitor to determine what the final fueling target is for your map to compare it to the wideband. To make sure the wideband is reading correctly, I would compare it to the front o2 sensor's reading at idle or cruise ("A/F Sensor 1 Ratio"). You may want to try calibrating the sensor again if it is notably off from the front o2.

The guide at the following link describes intake calibration:
http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/sho...et-for-Subarus

We have made some monitor name changes since that guide was created:
"A/F Trim Immed."-> "A/F Correction #1"
"A/F Trim Learned" -> "A/F Learning #1"

As far as the knock you are seeing - if that directly coincides with the bumps in the road then you may have something loose in the engine bay.

Bill
OK. There may be a handful of people here (PR) with the LM-1, and it might be a pain to find them, apart from the fact that they may have never changed the O2 sensor and it has propably seen more than enough hours of use. I know of maybe 3 AWD dyno's here, but I'm sure they only have the wideband O2 sensor and not a controller for me to be able to datalog.

We calibrated the wideband twice before we even started the car, but it never occurred to me to compare it while cruisin with the AP, so I'll try that.

I think I found the reason why the ATR wouldn't connect. I performed a System Restore to my PC to before any Cobb software was installed. When I reinstalled everything, I read the final message a couple of times before hitting "OK", and noticed it said that the maps had to be Cobb branded for the software to be able to connect to the ECU. The car has the Cobb stage 2, but the software had the "Stock Married Map" open. I was just browsing through the maps and opened that one to have a look, and every time I opened ATR, that was the map that was chosen. Was that the reason?

As for the "Comm Fuel Final", you're telling me to log that so that I can see what fueling the ECU wants? I'm assuming that will me where I'm supposed to be, and comparing it to the wideband will tell me how far off I am. Am I understanding it correctly?

Now, for compatible Wideband controllers to log with the AP, would this be compatible: http://www.ebay.com/itm/380179977064...84.m1423.l2649. I have already researched how to make an output serial cable for it to connect to my PC (not that hard to do). I went through the "configure Options" on the ATR and the AEM UEGO is an option, but it doesn't specify a model. Will the one on the link be compatible?

About the knock, I'm not worried. I was able to datalog with the ap for a while before we started messing with the ATR, and it's normally at 0. I've checked and re-checked for loose stuff in the engine bay and found nothing, so I'm sure it's the road. Our roads are as crappy as you can imagine, and the solutions for uneven parts or potholes are to make a little bump of tar over them so they can last longer. I'd say most of our highways are concrete, so making uneven patches of tar on them will make the car vibrate at times... The whole car...

Please let me know what you can about the questions asked above. Thanks!
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 10:44 AM   #18
Cobb Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cianuro View Post
OK. There may be a handful of people here (PR) with the LM-1, and it might be a pain to find them, apart from the fact that they may have never changed the O2 sensor and it has propably seen more than enough hours of use. I know of maybe 3 AWD dyno's here, but I'm sure they only have the wideband O2 sensor and not a controller for me to be able to datalog.

We calibrated the wideband twice before we even started the car, but it never occurred to me to compare it while cruisin with the AP, so I'll try that.

I think I found the reason why the ATR wouldn't connect. I performed a System Restore to my PC to before any Cobb software was installed. When I reinstalled everything, I read the final message a couple of times before hitting "OK", and noticed it said that the maps had to be Cobb branded for the software to be able to connect to the ECU. The car has the Cobb stage 2, but the software had the "Stock Married Map" open. I was just browsing through the maps and opened that one to have a look, and every time I opened ATR, that was the map that was chosen. Was that the reason?

As for the "Comm Fuel Final", you're telling me to log that so that I can see what fueling the ECU wants? I'm assuming that will me where I'm supposed to be, and comparing it to the wideband will tell me how far off I am. Am I understanding it correctly?

Now, for compatible Wideband controllers to log with the AP, would this be compatible: http://www.ebay.com/itm/380179977064...84.m1423.l2649. I have already researched how to make an output serial cable for it to connect to my PC (not that hard to do). I went through the "configure Options" on the ATR and the AEM UEGO is an option, but it doesn't specify a model. Will the one on the link be compatible?

About the knock, I'm not worried. I was able to datalog with the ap for a while before we started messing with the ATR, and it's normally at 0. I've checked and re-checked for loose stuff in the engine bay and found nothing, so I'm sure it's the road. Our roads are as crappy as you can imagine, and the solutions for uneven parts or potholes are to make a little bump of tar over them so they can last longer. I'd say most of our highways are concrete, so making uneven patches of tar on them will make the car vibrate at times... The whole car...

Please let me know what you can about the questions asked above. Thanks!
The mapping you have open will not impact whether you can connect with ATR or not. It sounds like an install issue. The only thing I can think of to try is to run the ATR installer as admin (right click on the installer). Also, make sure you have the latest AccessPORT firmware (update via the AP Manager software). If you still have problems, give our tech support a call.

The Comm Fuel Final will show you what the ECU is trying to target (including short/long-term fuel corrections).

The AEM wideband at that link should work.

Bill
Cobb Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 12:11 PM   #19
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
The mapping you have open will not impact whether you can connect with ATR or not. It sounds like an install issue. The only thing I can think of to try is to run the ATR installer as admin (right click on the installer). Also, make sure you have the latest AccessPORT firmware (update via the AP Manager software). If you still have problems, give our tech support a call.

The Comm Fuel Final will show you what the ECU is trying to target (including short/long-term fuel corrections).

The AEM wideband at that link should work.

Bill
Since I'm the only one that uses this laptop, I have the "User Account Control" setting off, but I always install software via right-click and "Run As Administrator", just in case. I don't remember running it as Admin when I was working with it, and it probably wasn't since I was driving and my friend was managing the PC. I'll do some in-garage connection testing tomorrow with that step to see if the problem goes away.

I've checked twice through the AP manager, and it always tells me I'm at the latest firmware.

I'll perform some datalogging tomorrow at WOT to check what the "Comm Fuel Final" is showing and report back with a datalog file (if I'm allowed). Take into account that I'll be driving alone, so I'll datalog my full drive to avoid having to touch the AP while driving, which means that there will be a bunch of data. Should I leave the datalog at the default setting, or should I add/remove something?

When you say the AEM "should" work, do you mean it hasn't been tried? Also, is the Innovate LC-1 supported? I keep reading in old threads it's supposed to be, but no one says for sure.
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 11:17 AM   #20
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

How do I change/modify fueling so that the open loop changes?

I have the car standing still, and I'm trying to modify fueling but I don't see any changes.

Since I have afr's in 9, what table do I need to modify so I can fix this?
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 11:37 AM   #21
Cobb Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cianuro View Post
Since I'm the only one that uses this laptop, I have the "User Account Control" setting off, but I always install software via right-click and "Run As Administrator", just in case. I don't remember running it as Admin when I was working with it, and it probably wasn't since I was driving and my friend was managing the PC. I'll do some in-garage connection testing tomorrow with that step to see if the problem goes away.

I've checked twice through the AP manager, and it always tells me I'm at the latest firmware.

I'll perform some datalogging tomorrow at WOT to check what the "Comm Fuel Final" is showing and report back with a datalog file (if I'm allowed). Take into account that I'll be driving alone, so I'll datalog my full drive to avoid having to touch the AP while driving, which means that there will be a bunch of data. Should I leave the datalog at the default setting, or should I add/remove something?

When you say the AEM "should" work, do you mean it hasn't been tried? Also, is the Innovate LC-1 supported? I keep reading in old threads it's supposed to be, but no one says for sure.
I would leave the default logging set and add Comm Fuel Final to it.

The compatible AEM model is 30-4100 which is what the ebay listing appears to be.

When is the wb reading 9:1? If it is sitting still, then you have a problem with the sensor (the car would run like absolute crap if it was actually running that AFR at idle).

Bill
Cobb Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 02:27 PM   #22
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
I would leave the default logging set and add Comm Fuel Final to it.

The compatible AEM model is 30-4100 which is what the ebay listing appears to be.

When is the wb reading 9:1? If it is sitting still, then you have a problem with the sensor (the car would run like absolute crap if it was actually running that AFR at idle).

Bill
OK. I did that. I'll pull the datalog when I get a chance.

I have one of Cobb's datasheets that says the Innovate LC-1 will also work. I was trying one today, but there were communication issues. I think it was that the Serial-USB adapter we were using was not compatible with the LC-1, so I'll need to do some more research on that.

The wb read 9:1 at WOT throughout all the revs. We went driving today and did some live tuning of the MAF, and now the wb shows 11.2-11.0 at WOT, and I'm not talking about the AP readings. At idle, I get 14.5 (+/- .2).

Now apart from all that, I got P0244 code at WOT in 4th gear @4500RPM. Any ideas? After the live tuning, I flashed the map that was modified to the ECU, so I'm thinking I may need more learning, but I want to hear what you have to say.
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 03:08 PM   #23
Cobb Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cianuro View Post
OK. I did that. I'll pull the datalog when I get a chance.

I have one of Cobb's datasheets that says the Innovate LC-1 will also work. I was trying one today, but there were communication issues. I think it was that the Serial-USB adapter we were using was not compatible with the LC-1, so I'll need to do some more research on that.

The wb read 9:1 at WOT throughout all the revs. We went driving today and did some live tuning of the MAF, and now the wb shows 11.2-11.0 at WOT, and I'm not talking about the AP readings. At idle, I get 14.5 (+/- .2).

Now apart from all that, I got P0244 code at WOT in 4th gear @4500RPM. Any ideas? After the live tuning, I flashed the map that was modified to the ECU, so I'm thinking I may need more learning, but I want to hear what you have to say.
Ok, well if you are seeing 9:1 at WOT only, that is more reasonable. As a test, with your MAF calibration changes, I would look at the front o2 reading at WOT now. Although not terribly accurate, if your wbo2 sensor was inaccurate and your MAF changes resulted in a notable lean condition, the front o2 would likely not be pegged at 11:1 at WOT as it did before.

There's no learning of boost control. Sometimes with catless exhausts you can end up with boost creep, which is a mechanical condition that causes you to overboost. You can try the LWG map (download it from our site), but if it is actual boost creep, this will not help.

Bill
Cobb Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 06:09 PM   #24
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning
Ok, well if you are seeing 9:1 at WOT only, that is more reasonable. As a test, with your MAF calibration changes, I would look at the front o2 reading at WOT now. Although not terribly accurate, if your wbo2 sensor was inaccurate and your MAF changes resulted in a notable lean condition, the front o2 would likely not be pegged at 11:1 at WOT as it did before.

There's no learning of boost control. Sometimes with catless exhausts you can end up with boost creep, which is a mechanical condition that causes you to overboost. You can try the LWG map (download it from our site), but if it is actual boost creep, this will not help.

Bill
I did that, but it was jumping from 11.7 to 11.1 and staying there while the wb read between 11.0 and 11.3.

I wasn't looking at the boost gauge when it happened, but I had done plenty of pulls without it happening. The difference was that the pull that threw the code was at 4th gear and all the previous pulls where 2nd and 3rd gear.

I also did some testing on WOT from low rpm in 4th and 5th gear up to 5k rpm, and everything was ok. Since I got the code on my way home, I made some more pulls before I got home and it didn't happen again.

I think it might have overboosted, but I'm not sure. I'll see if I can do some more testing tomorrow. At least I'm closer to where I want to be, there is no more lagging and the feels so much better than when I started.
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 09:16 PM   #25
cianuro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 235475
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: PRSIC
Location: Puerto Rico
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
Silver

Default

Do you have the stock MAF housing size for the 08 WRX? I'm looking at the datasheets on intake calibration, but I don't see it listed. I read the 08 STi is 70mm, but I assume mine should be different. Am I assuming wrong? Also, do you have any idea as to where to find specs (MAF housing size) for the K&N so that I can check my intake calibration? I find plenty of people running it, many reviews and gains info, but no specs.
cianuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question about the Cobb AP... Caden Newbies & FAQs 11 05-09-2011 11:33 PM
A few questions about the COBB AP AWDPirate Engine Management & Tuning 4 05-11-2007 08:19 AM
2 quick questions about the cobb ap thething313@cox.net Newbies & FAQs 20 08-21-2006 08:34 AM
Couple of general questions about Subarus EcksJay Newbies & FAQs 9 01-17-2005 09:23 PM
A couple of odd questions about V6 seats GC84ever Interior & Exterior Modification 3 12-22-2004 05:48 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.