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Old 12-31-2013, 03:14 PM   #276
ChrisV
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may I add one more...

Does dealer really need "social security ##" even when making lump sum complete payment ?

It may seem the least important matter when making deal. But, I had pretty annoying experience right after I purchased my last vehicle. Sudden increase of tele-marketting calls, a lot of mails and calls from all kinds of brand dealers, credit card application calls and mails from various major and minor brand names... maybe it is just coincidence?
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:45 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
may I add one more...

Does dealer really need "social security ##" even when making lump sum complete payment ?

It may seem the least important matter when making deal. But, I had pretty annoying experience right after I purchased my last vehicle. Sudden increase of tele-marketting calls, a lot of mails and calls from all kinds of brand dealers, credit card application calls and mails from various major and minor brand names... maybe it is just coincidence?
Yes, Dealers are looked at as Financial Institutions now because of the large sums of money that change hands.

We need your personal info to run your OFAC and prove identity. It's for your safety and ours.

I'd say the calls were a coincidence.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:31 PM   #278
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This isn't exactly a sales question, but you might be able to shed some light on this. I usually take my 08 WRX to another local dealer for service (who has been great to work with so far). My car is lightly modified with a turboback exhaust (with Cobb turbo heat shield) and an Accessport. After the last trip, they included a log of all my mods on the service report. This is fine, as my car is now outside of its warranty, but they never did that during previous visits with the same mods. However, they listed that I had an aftermarket turbo on the car, while the car still has the stock TD04 that it came with. I installed the turboback exhaust myself and verified this while the downpipe was off the car. Maybe the heat shield threw them off?

I'm not concerned about the dealer trying to hold out on any possible future warranty work for me, but I am curious as to what would happen if the dealer flagged a car as having aftermarket parts that it has never had. What if this had happened to another owner who was still within the warranty window?
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:35 AM   #279
Beyer Subaru
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This always comes down to how the respective dealer treats modded cars.

The general rule is that you will need to trace a failure back to a mod to deny warranty.

Meaning that if I add a TBE and no tune - The engine pops. It's on you.
But if I add an aftermarket stereo or other - The wheel bearing fails. It's on us.

It usually is a common sense kind of thing but I have heard of many dealers denying warranty work because the car had X part even though the failure was for Y part.

Your shop could just be trying to be thorough in respect to your car by documenting how the car is set-up. But I can't say what or why they are doing that.
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:23 PM   #280
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Go have a smoke and a wank? Get some coffee? Make fun of the customer with the other salesmen?
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:54 PM   #281
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Default Ask a Car Salesman! Everything you ever wanted to know.

So my 2015 order was pushed back 2 more months.
And I'm looking elsewhere for a hatch. Found a dealer with a 2013 Sti hatch has 17k they are asking 34k

Same dealer last sept took my 2013 Sti with 9k miles for trade 30k

Do you think I have a chance of getting them to drop the price also end of the month

Btw my 2013 out the door was (@7 miles) 35200.00

And my 2015 Sti order is 35500 out the door.




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Old 08-30-2014, 01:33 PM   #282
Beyer Subaru
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Everything in life is negotiable.

Dealers will typically ask about 2-3 grand mark up for a PreOwned model. This gives enough room for profit, haggling clients, etc. I can't say what the other dealer can offer as far as Sale Price because I don't know what they took the vehicle in trade for.

Your best bet is to just contact the dealer to see if you can consimate a deal.

I myself would just wait for the 2015 if I already had a 2013. The new cars are quite a ways away from the previous gen as you know.
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Old 10-05-2014, 09:12 PM   #283
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Here's my current situation w/backstory. Been interested in the MY15 WRX since the concept debuted at the NIAS. As with most people was disappointed with the new production model's design, but it was a new WRX and I was due for a new car. I was unaware of how the ordering process worked, and not realizing the wait, secured financing before even looking for/ordering the car as I wanted to have it for leverage in any negotiations.
I mentioned through chit chat to my CEO that I was in the market for a new car, but couldn't find one to test drive. He said hold on, and he proceeded to dial a number for a guy who he spoke with as if this guy was sitting around all day waiting for his call. On speaker phone He told him he needed a car and at a "good" price. He asked me what I was looking for, a WRX Limited, and the guy said yeah I can get that. Looking back he obviously had no idea what he was getting himself into. He probably thought it was going to be like ordering a Honda accord, Ford Fusion, or something. So I got a little excited and agreed to his offer of help. Couple days go by and nothing. By the way it's the middle of July.... Then I get a phone call from a Subaru dealer asking if i was interested in a new WRX, they didn't initially mention why they were calling, so I told them I have a third party shopping for me. That's when they said, yes (insert name) asked me to reach out to you to get your build and specs for the car to order (though I have provided this to him previously). I then gave them the specs of the car I wanted, they asked for a deposit, I obliged, they said it should take 6 - 12 weeks, and I thanked them. After the call, I reached out to (insert name), and he said he had them call me, but to not order the car yet. I thought to myself, that info would've been useful 20 minutes ago. I said that I think they're putting the order in as they took a deposit from me. I don't think they were aware of any instruction not to order the car and nor was I. I'm thinking, "thanks for the communication guy". He said he'd take care of it. It turns out he never negotiated the price for the car. I made the incorrect, though reasonable assumption he had some connections at this dealer since he had them reach out to me about the car. Over the course of the next 7-10 days I ask him if he's negotiated a price yet as like anyone, I would like it taken care of and have it and a promise that the car wouldn't be sold out from underneath me in writing. He apologized saying how busy he's been. Apparently he's the founder/owner of a high end auto customization company similar to West Coast Autos of "Pimp My Ride" fame. I said "I understood, and I'd check back in two weeks". He says, "ok, sounds good". What am I gonna do? I can't really push him as he's not even doing this for me but as a favor to my CEO. Two weeks go by, so I reached out to him asking him if he's got anything for me. At this point it's been at least three weeks total. He tells me after them not returning his calls, due to "them owing him money", he finally got a hold of them and according to him, was told they couldn't price out the car until they get the invoice, and they won't get the invoice until the car is delivered. I felt this was BS, but he assured me it's understandable. I'm not the most experienced car buyer and he's supposed to be "the buyer" so after telling him again any leverage we might have is fading away as the weeks go by, I put my trust in him and let it go. I have since, after spending time on these forums found that this was in fact BS, & shared this with him, so either the Dealership is jerking him around and he doesn't care &/or he's jerking me around. From the couple of people I spoke with at my job, they say he's a "good" guy, so I'm continuing to give him the benefit of the doubt, as I feel I can't go to my CEO and say, "Yeah the help you are trying to generously give me is worthless and has basically screwed me. I'm also feeling uneasy about dealing with a dealership that is at best ignorant when it comes to the WRX ordering process (they're a mid to high volume dealer, btw.) or at worst are straight up lying to my guy in effect lying to me so they can more than likely pressure me into paying MSRP or premium over MSRP, once the car arrives knowing I've been waiting 6-12 weeks. By the way It'll be twelve weeks this Tuesday. The guy says they keep insisting they can't price the car out and to "hold tight."
I am planning on getting my wife into a Forester in 2 yrs after getting my car, and then myself hopefully into an STi (as I don't want the new MY15 STi with it's 10 yr old engine design) 3 yrs after that, on so on and so on, effectively getting both of us a new car every 5 yrs and buying a new Subaru from a dealer every 2 1/2 yrs. If they want to be firm with the MSRP then I'll most likely bite the bullet and pay it, but I won't be making any future purchases from them. If they try being firm with premium price over MSRP, then I'll be out a car since I won't be giving them my money, and obviously they'll lose any future business as well.
My question, yes finally, sorry, is why would a dealership do this, especially when they know NAISOC exists, and how can I salvage this whole situation? Since I'm on the East coast I'm not expecting to get the car at or near invoice though that'd be nice, nor do I have any problem with the dealership making some money. I just feel I shouldn't have to pay MSRP for a car that I ordered and hasn't been sitting on their lot. A car that I ordered through them by chance, and have had to wait a minimum of 3 months to possibly buy. Thanks for reading through my novella here, and thanks for any advice (positive) that comes my way.

Last edited by STifyed42; 10-08-2014 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 10-06-2014, 03:48 AM   #284
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Why shouldn't you have to pay MSRP? Obviously you ordered it because it's not readily available... should be at the discretion of the dealership at this point.

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Old 10-06-2014, 11:04 AM   #285
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Brand new model with a wait, and you don't think you should have to pay MSRP because you ordered it? I still don't understand how you went from not finding one to test drive to allowing someone to set up an order for you without knowing the price. If you don't want to put much effort into finding the car yourself, don't expect to pay a low price.
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Old 10-06-2014, 02:44 PM   #286
STifyed42
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[quote=wrxlaunch;42610644]Why shouldn't you have to pay MSRP? Obviously you ordered it because it's not readily available... should be at the discretion of the dealership at this point.

Regarding the MSRP, the cost of ordering a car, a car that is in essence already sold w/no effort on the dealer's part, to a dealership is lower than one that doesn't have a buyer yet. It's not costing them money by taking up space on their lot. They haven't had to spend money to earn my business, i.e. It's not costing them money in advertising/marketing as I came to them as opposed to them spending that money to bring me in. It's basically an automatic sale for them that they never had, so therefore I don't feel I should have to pay MSRP. Obviously in the end it's the dealer's decision as to what they'll decide to offer me the car at. Am I saying I should get it at invoice, no, but out of gratitude alone as I could have gone to any dealer to order a car, I would hope they'd give me some kind of break on the car to begin with even if it's only $500.

Quote:
Originally Posted by growling_boxer View Post
Brand new model with a wait, and you don't think you should have to pay MSRP because you ordered it? I still don't understand how you went from not finding one to test drive to allowing someone to set up an order for you without knowing the price. If you don't want to put much effort into finding the car yourself, don't expect to pay a low price.
Though no in state dealer's would give me a quote over phone/email, I did get quotes from out of state dealers $1K to $1500 under MSRP just through email, but was reasonably under the impression the guy my CEO set me up with was handling everything. I didn't ask for his help so I didn't have to make an "effort". It was offered to me.
The MSRP though partly based on demand is mainly based on the dealer's expected margins (MSRP less fixed/variable costs), and when certain costs aren't expended to get that sale/revenue then those margins are larger, and I don't see any reason why at minimum the difference can't be split especially when I'd like to be a repeat customer. If they choose not to that's their right, but doesn't change the fact that I feel anyone who orders a car, especially who then has to wait 3 months for it, shouldn't have to pay MSRP. Obviously the dealer's gonna do what they want, and based on that so will I. I also don't feel there's a wait because of demand, but because of supply, and that shouldn't affect MSRP or willingness to negotiate. Subaru's only selling 1200-1500 of these a month, while Chevy is selling 7000-9000 Camaros per month, so it's not really a demand issue.

In the end my original question still stands.

Last edited by STifyed42; 10-07-2014 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 10-08-2014, 04:49 PM   #287
Beyer Subaru
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Wow. I couldn't read through that text wall. I gather that the gist of situation is that you don't want to pay MSRP?

If you don't want to pay MSRP go to another dealer.

If you don't mind paying MSRP (Like I did to get mine when there were none available and the way we've sold them for years now) then complete the transaction.

Supply-demand is what it all comes down to. These cars are on an order only basis and should be for the entire model year into the next model year.

It doesn't matter what any other Mfr is selling their cars for because they aren't selling WRX/STi models.

I was surprised to find out that my sister Land Rover store is currently commanding MSRP and over for their new models. Crazy. But if you want the Manufacturers product then there should be no problem paying their Suggested Retail Price.

If you're willing to wait for the demand to die down then you can command a more aggressive sale price.

Please let me know if this helps answer your question.
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Old 10-08-2014, 11:55 PM   #288
STifyed42
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Thanks. My main question though is why would a dealer say they can't price out a car until they get the invoice, which is when the car is delivered? Is this true? If not why would they try to pass it off as being true?

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Old 10-09-2014, 12:14 AM   #289
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To answer your question. .. you should be able to walk into any Subaru dealership and ask for a price even if the car hasn't been built yet. I do it every day before I order vehicles for my clients

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Old 10-09-2014, 08:03 AM   #290
STifyed42
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Thank you, so in all likely hood for whatever reason they're straight up lying to me. So Now the question is why? This is why I hate buying cars. One-time had a dealer tell me I can only offer you this for your trade in because that's what the NADA book says it's worth. This was back when the NADA book was not online & only available to dealers. I agreed, then a month later got a copy of the book and my car's trade in was higher than he said it was. If he was honest, I would've been able to get the V6 instead of the 4cyl I ended up getting for the same payment. This was fifteen years ago.

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Old 10-09-2014, 12:38 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STifyed42 View Post
Thanks. My main question though is why would a dealer say they can't price out a car until they get the invoice, which is when the car is delivered? Is this true? If not why would they try to pass it off as being true?

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The dealer is sounding a little bit shady. Per Subaru the end price isn't "set" or secure until the vehicle has been Invoiced and passed through Port Processing. This is mainly due to the Accessories availability and install on the vehicle.

This is pulled from a 2015MY Forester Base Model en route:
MSRP$25,221 (Estimate-see vehicle invoice for final value)


So yes it's "true" that they can't confirm the exact amount but they can give you an approximate MSRP, Invoice, Sale Price, etc at the time of build on paper.

They are trying to pass this off as true because they are either shady or ignorant to the facts.




Quote:
Originally Posted by STifyed42 View Post
Thank you, so in all likely hood for whatever reason they're straight up lying to me. So Now the question is why? This is why I hate buying cars. One-time had a dealer tell me I can only offer you this for your trade in because that's what the NADA book says it's worth. This was back when the NADA book was not online & only available to dealers. I agreed, then a month later got a copy of the book and my car's trade in was higher than he said it was. If he was honest, I would've been able to get the V6 instead of the 4cyl I ended up getting for the same payment. This was fifteen years ago.

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The difference between buying a car 15 years ago and today is night and day different.

You will still find the "old timers" or old school antics present at some dealers but most have all had to change with the times to keep business rolling in.

I got my ass straight handed to me back then. Just like you. It's different now. You have forums like these. Salesman like me. Internet power to research anything that you can think of.

If something doesn't feel "right", fair or honest then move on to the next dealer/salesperson. This is your market to do with as you please. People like wrxlaunch and me are here to help guide you to the best end solution.
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Old 10-09-2014, 06:40 PM   #292
STifyed42
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Thank you very much for your straight answer. It's very helpful. I will admit overall my dealer experiences have been better than they were10-15 years ago.

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Old 10-09-2014, 07:41 PM   #293
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My pleasure. Why we're (or at least me) all here brother.
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Old 10-18-2014, 03:25 AM   #294
STifyed42
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[quote=Beyer Subaru;35531453]From the time you place the order it usually takes about 5 minutes to see it in our pipeline and a "loose" ETA. The ETA will go "tight" when the car is close to arrival/completion.

Did a search & this didn't really answer the question posed. The question was when is VIN assigned? When the car comes off the assembly line, boards the ship, or arrived at destination port? Thanks.

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Old 10-18-2014, 11:03 AM   #295
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Also typically are there dealership imposed limits when using a credit card for down payments? Obviously a dealer prefers not to pay the merchant fee. I'd be willing to supplement that cost with an additional cash payment.

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Old 10-18-2014, 04:38 PM   #296
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[quote=STifyed42;42661495]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyer Subaru View Post
From the time you place the order it usually takes about 5 minutes to see it in our pipeline and a "loose" ETA. The ETA will go "tight" when the car is close to arrival/completion.

Did a search & this didn't really answer the question posed. The question was when is VIN assigned? When the car comes off the assembly line, boards the ship, or arrived at destination port? Thanks.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by STifyed42 View Post
Also typically are there dealership imposed limits when using a credit card for down payments? Obviously a dealer prefers not to pay the merchant fee. I'd be willing to supplement that cost with an additional cash payment.

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The VIN is assigned after the vehicle has been assembled at the plant.

Typically, yes. Dealers can't absorb the fees imposed on them by the credit companies. For example here we can only charge up to 2k on a credit card.

If you were to pay the "fees", I can't see a dealer saying no. Just depends on their respective SOP's.
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:20 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
may I add one more...

Does dealer really need "social security ##" even when making lump sum complete payment ?

It may seem the least important matter when making deal. But, I had pretty annoying experience right after I purchased my last vehicle. Sudden increase of tele-marketting calls, a lot of mails and calls from all kinds of brand dealers, credit card application calls and mails from various major and minor brand names... maybe it is just coincidence?

With the telemarketers, etc., I got the same thing. The wife and I both got new cars this summer, and we've been getting peppered with phone calls, mail, and e-mails ever since. No way is it solely coincidence. A couple calls have come to my office phone, which I only ever gave to the salesman for my car. I made a point to not put it on the application because I get a million voice mails on that phone, and I don't want to have to sift through crap messages to get to work related ones.

The dealers have no incentive to do that kind of thing; they already have to do a lot of work to distance themselves from the "stealership" stigma.

I think it's related to Credit Bureaus. Somehow, companies know when people have activity on their CBR's or submit an application, and that's when they start slinging credit card offers and such.
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