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Old 10-24-2011, 05:35 PM   #51
Detslider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashsector View Post
No. The dealer actually prefers for you to finance. We either mark the rate up or receive a small payment ("flat") from the financing company to get you to finance with us. Either way it has nothing to do with the sale price. "I'm paying cash" is another thing you can say that lets us know you have no idea what you're talking about.
--Andy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyer Subaru View Post
Paying cash is fine. I would say a majority of my customers pay cash. I think what Andy is trying to say is that when you try and use it as a negotiation tactic it does nothing for you. It makes you look foolish.

Cash is the same as credit is the same as financing is the same as a wheelbarrow full of nickels. All money is electronic now. So the transferral of funds is immediate.
I realize it's unlikely someone is going to say "I'm paying cash" and then start actualy counting out $100 bills. I think we all recognize it's a way of saying "I do not need financing".

I suspected that the salesman gets a kickback for getting someone to use the dealers choice of financing but would have never thought that declaring that I don't need to go in debt to make the purchase makes me look "foolish" or ignorant.


I've tossed it out in hopes that the salesman understands that I have money, can afford the purchase and am a serrious buyer and not just wishing or chasing a dream.
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Old 10-24-2011, 05:47 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by mla163 View Post
but, what if I am actually paying cash?
Why pay cash for a car? If you can finance for say .9%-1.9% (as most car dealerships are having special rates at this time, some are even 0%) would it not make more sense to put your money in an investment fund that is more profitable and use the banks money to fund the vehicle? If you finance a $30k car for 1.9% you're paying a whopping $570 in interest spread evenly over the course of the loan. Most people go for a 60mo term which would be less than $10 a month. I'd rather keep my money where it's at and just pay it
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Old 10-24-2011, 05:53 PM   #53
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Sooooooo....I'll put this right here.

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Old 10-24-2011, 06:41 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Detslider View Post
I realize it's unlikely someone is going to say "I'm paying cash" and then start actualy counting out $100 bills. I think we all recognize it's a way of saying "I do not need financing".

I suspected that the salesman gets a kickback for getting someone to use the dealers choice of financing but would have never thought that declaring that I don't need to go in debt to make the purchase makes me look "foolish" or ignorant.


I've tossed it out in hopes that the salesman understands that I have money, can afford the purchase and am a serrious buyer and not just wishing or chasing a dream.
A few points to clarify:

- Declaring that you are "paying cash" at the onset of negotiations is a great way for me to NOT take you seriously, not the opposite. Most folks actually have outside financing and have been told to pretend like they're paying cash to get a better deal. This is no longer the case for the dealers, it is exactly the opposite. We want you to finance in house. Play along until the end and see what the dealers' rates are. If you can get better outside, say so. Let them match it. If they can't, go get your check. Or stop obsessing over a 0.3% difference on a financed amount of $10k and sign the paperwork. You're going to trade the car in 3 years anyway.

- Salesmen don't get much of a kickback. I make a very VERY low percentage of any "back end" profit. Most of these profits are in the $700-800 range. You do the math. It's mainly scratching the finance guy's back so he'll scratch mine.

The best way to make it clear to a dealer that you're a serious buyer ready to do business is to do exactly what I mentioned earlier. Walk in to the showroom, walk up to a salesperson, offer your name/address/phone/email at the get-go, and have some idea of what you want to accomplish. Have a reasonable expectation of your budget and let the salesperson know what it is from the beginning. Make reasonable offers and be respectful.

Don't just pull in the lot, let some newbie walk up to you, say you know nothing about the cars and then get frustrated when they fail to educate you about the cars. Car sales has changed A LOT in the last 10 years.

Quote:
So the buying service thing I understand. But what about manufacturer partner discounts? I work for a supplier that lets me qualify for discounts. It just seems like the dealer is sore about selling a desirable vehicle that could have made more on a regular sale.
Meh, a sales's a sale. Those discounts are usually subsidised to some amount.

--Andy
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Old 10-25-2011, 03:18 AM   #55
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There is a dude here in MAIC who is selling his 2011 STI (pearl white) sedan for $29,995. It's got 20k miles on it and he's planning to trade it in soon. He's selling it for basically what he'll get for trade in....not a bad deal IMO.
unfortunatly i only want a hatch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyer Subaru View Post
Your best bet is to negotiate an order at this point. There are very few STi's left in VA. We've got a 4 Door Base STi in Dark Gray.
when are the 2012s suppose to get here? id be willing to fly to a different location and drive it back

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Originally Posted by guygettnby View Post
i personally had a great experience with annapolis subaru. they did everything they could to help me out and lowered the price of my 2011 WRX under retail even with the upgrades it had on there. not too mention they worked with me on the trade in of my crappy wrangler.. i also think i got lucky with a great saleman though. the man knew about subarus and had an answer for everything i asked him.

if you go to annapolis subaru ask for frank white. you wont regret it.
awesome thanks i'll keep that in mind
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:58 AM   #56
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Why are cars sold without floor mats?
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:11 AM   #57
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KeVmO - The 12's should start trickling in next month and be strong in Dec-Jan.

Detslider - What cars are you talking about? The only cars I know of that came without mats is the 04 STi. That was for CAFE regs.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:52 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Detslider View Post
Why are cars sold without floor mats?
Profit. Up until a few months ago BMW 1's, 3's, X5's, and X6's didn't come with floor mats. Imagine how pissed people were to buy a $75k car and they had to pay another $131 for floor mats.

Our dealer ate it and installed them in every car. Then they started making them standard, on MINIs now too. Pretty cool.

Big event at the lot today, probably won't be able to reply until the evening, but keep the q's coming, this is fun!

--Andy
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:45 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Steve.804 View Post
Why pay cash for a car? If you can finance for say .9%-1.9% (as most car dealerships are having special rates at this time, some are even 0%) would it not make more sense to put your money in an investment fund that is more profitable and use the banks money to fund the vehicle? If you finance a $30k car for 1.9% you're paying a whopping $570 in interest spread evenly over the course of the loan. Most people go for a 60mo term which would be less than $10 a month. I'd rather keep my money where it's at and just pay it

B/c right now the stock market is so up and down, you may not get that return. Not all places offer 0-2%....some people pay 4-7%. I'd pay cash in that case.

I've paid cash and also financed before. My wife's car we paid cash (literally, I gave the dealership a certified check....so don't say people don't pay cash for cars). And the other (my wrx) I financed b/c it was 0%. If I had to pay any interest, I'd pay it off. But since it's free, I thought otherwise.

Also - this concept of "oh just finance it!" can get you in big trouble b/c you'll spend much more on a car than you really should be. People who should be buying Honda's are buying BMW's.

Last edited by brbauer; 10-25-2011 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:51 AM   #60
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Personally, I find the upsell of floormats, undercoating, clear coating, etc. very rude.

Really? Your cars will rust unless I get the undercoating? That doesn't speak very highly of your cars.
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:57 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by brbauer View Post
B/c right now the stock market is so up and down, you may not get that return. Not all places offer 0-2%....some people pay 4-7%. I'd pay cash in that case.

I've paid cash and also financed before. My wife's car we paid cash (literally, I gave the dealership a certified check....so don't say people don't pay cash for cars). And the other (my wrx) I financed b/c it was 0%. If I had to pay any interest, I'd pay it off. But since it's free, I thought otherwise.
Well of course if you have an "extra" $30k laying around and you were offered 7% interest, pay cash. But really, name one manufacturer that is not offering some sort of discounted finance rate (or cash back, it's all the same thing (discount))
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:13 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Steve.804 View Post
Well of course if you have an "extra" $30k laying around and you were offered 7% interest, pay cash. But really, name one manufacturer that is not offering some sort of discounted finance rate (or cash back, it's all the same thing (discount))
Good point - however, I'm sure there are people out there who have cash to put down on a car, but choose to hold onto it.

Also, as I mentioned above, financing simply allows people to buy cars they really can't afford. Not saying that if you can't eventually pay it off, you shouldn't buy it. But a lot of people today are taking 60 months loans. Maybe even longer, I don't know. Seriously?!? If you can't pay your car off in less than 4 years, you shouldn't be buying it. This is exactly how people get upside down on their loan b/c they finance a car for 60 months, want a new car in 2 years, still owe a ton of money on it, and they just trade it in for $6k less than they bought it for.

I'm not anti financing....i'm anti people spending more than they should b/c they were able to get their payment under $XXX.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:18 PM   #63
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I get longer loans, but I also don't sell my cars. there are a lot of people who like to get a new car every couple years, but there are also plenty who hold onto their cars for a while (everyone in my family except my sister, but she also can't get out the door without trying on at least 4 outfits).
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:25 PM   #64
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What costumers do car salesmen typically try to avoid? I know there has to be some type of racial or financial profiling. Time is money when there is a lot full of customers.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:51 PM   #65
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Nope. We avoid no one. If you ever try to avoid a customer that's the one that buys on the spot. Pre-Qualifying is a big no-no in the car business.

There is a local dealer that I will not name that did the following:
Customer walked in and was not greeted fro some time. When the customer was finally greeted the Salesman immediately ushered them to the PreOwned Dept.
When the customer protested they were again ushered to the most affordable new car. The customer called it quits and came to my store.

The customer was immediately welcomed and greeted. The customer told the story and ended up buying the most expensive Subaru we had at the time.

The customer was an elderly African American woman.

It never pays to Pre-Qualify anyone based on anything. Everyone is my customer until they buy from me or some place else and even then you might still get the next sale depending on how you treated the customer.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:58 PM   #66
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do you think it's smart right now, to buy a 2012 through the VIP program.. or haggle for a really good price (which is what?) for a leftover 2011? can someone give me some actual numbers so when i go to the dealer i know what's good/bad?.. looking for either the STi for WRX now i might consider sedan....
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:10 PM   #67
Beyer Subaru
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Do what you like Brother. If you want a 2012, Go for it! If you want a 2011, it's going to be a little bit more difficult because the supply is dwindeling daily.

I don't think any dealer is going to make a big discount difference on an in-stock car vs. a VIP or a Factory Order deal.

I have been stuck at MSRP for months now, because we are pulling cars from far and wide to make my customers happy. These additional shipping/logistic expenses make the deal closer to Invoice Pricing when it is all tallied.

Like the others have said - Find a dealer that you like and put something together that makes sense for you. The longer you wait will mean - you miss out on the 2011's and be in the back of the line for the 2012MY orders.

Feel free to PM me with any questions and I will do my best to assist you in finding a car.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:35 PM   #68
Crashsector
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Originally Posted by Filipinocracker View Post
What costumers do car salesmen typically try to avoid? I know there has to be some type of racial or financial profiling. Time is money when there is a lot full of customers.
We don't turn anyone away. However I will admit there are certain salespeople that are better with certain types of customers. We do what we can to shuffle around to give the best odds of everyone selling a customer.

There are what I guess you could call opposite profiles. Usually the more beat-up and crappy a car someone pulls up in the more money they have. Teachers that make $25k/year coming up with $30k to put down on a car and stuff... it's crazy. Other people you know are buried when they pull up in a brand new truck or the like. It's never what you expect, so just roll with it and sell a car.

The way you act will get you pre-qualified more than the way you look, dress, or what you drive. The cooler you are, the cooler we will be.

--Andy
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:42 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Beyer Subaru View Post
Nope. We avoid no one. If you ever try to avoid a customer that's the one that buys on the spot. Pre-Qualifying is a big no-no in the car business...

It never pays to Pre-Qualify anyone based on anything. Everyone is my customer until they buy from me or some place else and even then you might still get the next sale depending on how you treated the customer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashsector View Post
We don't turn anyone away. However I will admit there are certain salespeople that are better with certain types of customers. We do what we can to shuffle around to give the best odds of everyone selling a customer...

--Andy
You can search for a thread on here where I basically had to vent about my experience at Suby dealer in the area. My friend and his wife were shopping for a car as were my wife and I since our wives were preggo around the same time. Got to the dealer and we were all ignored for a good 15-20 minutes (both salesmen were less than 15 ft. away at their desks). Friend asked for a test drive of a Forester and the salesman asked a ton of questions I've never heard before. Why a Forester? What do you drive now? Where is that car? If you're car died, how do you get around? What does your wife drive? Who are the people you brought with you? etc. etc.

After about 3-4 mins of more useless questions, we left. My wife even commented that the manager on duty was smiling as we left the showroom (he was sitting by the exit door). It's all good though, because I ended up with a new Outback from Beyer Subaru and my friend got a new $33k Tiguan.

I have no idea why we were ignored and basically all but pushed out of the showroom. Another couple in their 50's came into the showroom and they were completely ignored also. If they were busy with other customers, I might understand but it looked like they were just surfing the web.

Also regarding time investment. As much as dealers don't want to waste time on customers that won't pan out, I as a customer don't want to waste time on a dealership that's going to treat me like poo. My friend wasn't subaru crazy but I convinced him to check it out and to drive all the way to Fairfax from South Riding to do so. Remember, we both had 7 month preggo wives, we all have full-time jobs with long DC commutes, thus we're all busy. What a waste of time at a dealership. It's good at least to know that there are dealers out there that will respect all customers to some degree.

Two thumbs up to you guys. If you're doing well as salesmen then you're probably doing something right.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:47 AM   #70
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Do car salesmen feel dumb when they don't take a 18- twenty something serious and than that kid comes back with the exact car they were asking about? I know when I was in the market for an STI, no one took me serious. They saw a 19 year old kid and though I was blowing smoke.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:31 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashsector
The way you act will get you pre-qualified more than the way you look, dress, or what you drive. The cooler you are, the cooler we will be.

--Andy
I believe that, when I was looking for a new(ish) truck I showed up at one dealership and was immediately greeted when I walked in the showroom. Guy new
I was serious at looking at $40-45k trucks even though I was only 24, and started tossing me to the keys to basically anything I asked to test drive. I may not have ended up getting the truck (now have my 11 WRX) but I was upfront with the guy and when it was all said n done I realized a truck wasn't what I was looking for. I explained to the gentleman and he was cool about it (maybe lol) and I told him I would come back if I ever needed one, which I would.

I was looking at trucks to pull my dads motorcycle trailer or to put my bike in the bed for transporting to/from the racetrack, as I used to do trackdays and WERA.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:32 PM   #72
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Do car salesmen feel dumb when they don't take a 18- twenty something serious and than that kid comes back with the exact car they were asking about? I know when I was in the market for an STI, no one took me serious. They saw a 19 year old kid and though I was blowing smoke.
That's why we don't Pre-Qualify anyone. Age doesn't equate income or ability to purchase.

As long as you are of legal age to buy, I'll sell you a car.

But this Pre-Qulaifying works the other way also.

A story from when I started:
A very, very old customer walks in the door and asks about a Subaru. One of our "lead" guys refuses to sell him a car due to his age and inability to walk, talk, etc..

Our Senior guy sells him the car and doesn't have a problem with it.

A few months later the car comes back. Every single body panel was dented, scratched or broken in some way. All rims were curbed.

The car only had a few hundred miles on it.

Turns out the guy had a stroke and his attorney was trying to sell the car back to us.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:44 AM   #73
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How about, why did my dealer in a non front-plate state, drill holes into my front bumper to put on a ugly dealer promotional tag, especially when there are those factory bracket slots on the bumper they could have used! I was mad about that.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:52 AM   #74
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What is the best way to get the most for a trade in? Generally the story goes, car is worth $20k and the salesman offers $15k. Are there certain guides, (NADA, KBB, Edmunds) that are more accurate than others?
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:19 AM   #75
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How about, why did my dealer in a non front-plate state, drill holes into my front bumper to put on a ugly dealer promotional tag, especially when there are those factory bracket slots on the bumper they could have used! I was mad about that.
Every Dealer has their own respective "prep" that they do for a vehicle.
These include:
Putting plastic dealer tags
Taking off the shipping plastic
Laying down floor protection
Adding dealer swag - door guards, pinstriping, dealer decals/emblems, sticker addendums,etc..

Luckily we don't really do any of the "typical" dealer prep.

It's all put together from the top Mgt down. Usually Sales has no control over these things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick10 View Post
What is the best way to get the most for a trade in? Generally the story goes, car is worth $20k and the salesman offers $15k. Are there certain guides, (NADA, KBB, Edmunds) that are more accurate than others?
The best way for the consumer to know trade-in values is to get a couple of appraisals done.
If you don't have the time or patience, then you need some form of access to see the car auctions. This will tell you what cars are actually selling for daily.

We use the auctions as a base to see what we can sell the car for, on our lot or at the auction.

Usually dealers will make/lose anywhere from 500-3000 on a trade-in. It's a gamble on our end that we take to buy your car and make a new car deal.

NADA,KBB,Edmunds are all very good tools. But never are they as accurate as our tools because they aren't updated fast enough.
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