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Old 10-27-2011, 10:58 AM   #76
Chevarian113
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What color are your eyes?
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:29 AM   #77
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:16 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by patrick10 View Post
What is the best way to get the most for a trade in? Generally the story goes, car is worth $20k and the salesman offers $15k. Are there certain guides, (NADA, KBB, Edmunds) that are more accurate than others?
Edmunds has been the closest to reality from what I've experienced, but all the "guides" are still off. All trade-in values go by wholesale auction values, which no one outside of the business has access to.

If I wanted to buy exactly the car you're trying to trade in, why would I pay YOU more for it than I could buy it for at an auction? Make sense?

KBB and NADA are financial guides and should NOT be used to draw a parallel to market value. Think of cars like stocks... there can be literally thousands of dollars worth of swing in the value of a certain model overnight. Just ask all the Camry owners that wanted to trade after the gas pedal thing came out.

--Andy
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:52 PM   #79
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Another amazing answer Andy! This thread needs to be a sticky. This takes all of the guess work out of car sales.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:48 PM   #80
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Andy, this is a BMW-specific question since I've always been curious about European Delivery. Do you dislike/hate when people come in and do the European Delivery route? I know the dealer makes less on it, so I take it that screws you out of some/all of the commission as well.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:23 PM   #81
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Andy, this is a BMW-specific question since I've always been curious about European Delivery. Do you dislike/hate when people come in and do the European Delivery route? I know the dealer makes less on it, so I take it that screws you out of some/all of the commission as well.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I love Euro Delivery. I make the same amount of money AND I don't actually have to show you how the car works. Plus the customer pays less and you get to see Europe.

Everybody wins!

--Andy
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:25 PM   #82
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Edmunds has been the closest to reality from what I've experienced, but all the "guides" are still off. All trade-in values go by wholesale auction values, which no one outside of the business has access to.

If I wanted to buy exactly the car you're trying to trade in, why would I pay YOU more for it than I could buy it for at an auction? Make sense?

KBB and NADA are financial guides and should NOT be used to draw a parallel to market value. Think of cars like stocks... there can be literally thousands of dollars worth of swing in the value of a certain model overnight. Just ask all the Camry owners that wanted to trade after the gas pedal thing came out.

--Andy
I don't doubt the accuracy of your answer. But more frustration for the buyer:

The public websites that tell me specifically what my car is worth are not accurate. And, the resources that do tell me what it is worth are not accessible to me. How am I supposed to appraise the value of a trade in? How do I know that the dealer is not low balling me?
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:42 PM   #83
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I don't doubt the accuracy of your answer. But more frustration for the buyer:

The public websites that tell me specifically what my car is worth are not accurate. And, the resources that do tell me what it is worth are not accessible to me. How am I supposed to appraise the value of a trade in? How do I know that the dealer is not low balling me?
How about taking the car to places like CarMax? They get one shot at it and give you a time-sensitive quote.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:54 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by mla163 View Post
I don't doubt the accuracy of your answer. But more frustration for the buyer:

The public websites that tell me specifically what my car is worth are not accurate. And, the resources that do tell me what it is worth are not accessible to me. How am I supposed to appraise the value of a trade in? How do I know that the dealer is not low balling me?
The only true way to get a trade-in appraisal done is to have a trade-in appraisal done.
Lowballing will vary from dealer to dealer and customer to customer. You can take market value of your car at a dealer and private party sale - Then subtract 2-3K and that should be close to your trade-in value.
We are not lowballing you. We are gambling that we will get that money back or possibly even make a profit on the car.

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Originally Posted by Benchmark View Post
How about taking the car to places like CarMax? They get one shot at it and give you a time-sensitive quote.
Carmax rocks for trade-ins. If my trade-in value is to low for the customer, I always tell my customers to go there. They will generally beat my values by a few hundred to a thousand.

Carmax is volume based. So they are not as pressed to make as much as they can. They will be happy with a hundred dollars profit.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:26 PM   #85
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There are a few things to understand about price. On new cars, just do your research. Edmund's TMV is a great way to find out what people are really paying for the car. Know invoice price, know what incentives are available, and make an up-front, respectable offer.
So what is a respectable offer? If I go to Edmund's TMV and it says XYZ car has a TMV of $32,500 plus the $500 destination($30,000 invoice) with no incentives? Invoice + $500 + destination, is that a reasonable offer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve.804 View Post
Why pay cash for a car? If you can finance for say .9%-1.9% (as most car dealerships are having special rates at this time, some are even 0%) would it not make more sense to put your money in an investment fund that is more profitable and use the banks money to fund the vehicle? If you finance a $30k car for 1.9% you're paying a whopping $570 in interest spread evenly over the course of the loan. Most people go for a 60mo term which would be less than $10 a month. I'd rather keep my money where it's at and just pay it
Well why buy cars at all then if a new car drops 20% in value when you drive off the lot? Cars are not investments, so why the apples and oranges comparison?
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:22 AM   #86
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Yep, that's a respectable and reasonable offer.


Because you can have your money in an actual investment that's paying you and allow the banks to fund your depreciating investment at very little cost.
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:40 AM   #87
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Yep, that's a respectable and reasonable offer.


Because you can have your money in an actual investment that's paying you and allow the banks to fund your depreciating investment at very little cost.
It's true in this case:
You have $100,000 invested in the stock market and you're comfortable with that. Cashing out $30,000 to pay for a car is just like converting the $30,000 into a "risk-free" investment, say into a savings account earning 1%. So sure, take the loan, especially if it's a subsidized rate.

But not in this case:
You have $100,000 "invested" in a savings account earning 1% and you're comfortable with that. You should pay for the car with cash and not finance it with a loan at 3%. Of course if the rate is 0%, I'll take it. You SHOULD NOT take the loan and then invest the $30,000 cash that you could've used to pay for the car and invest it in the stock market. That's taking additional risk.

Last edited by Benchmark; 10-28-2011 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:51 AM   #88
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Why pay cash for a car? If you can finance for say .9%-1.9% (as most car dealerships are having special rates at this time, some are even 0%) would it not make more sense to put your money in an investment fund that is more profitable and use the banks money to fund the vehicle? If you finance a $30k car for 1.9% you're paying a whopping $570 in interest spread evenly over the course of the loan. Most people go for a 60mo term which would be less than $10 a month. I'd rather keep my money where it's at and just pay it
I agree with this approach but have to make one minor correction. I'm pretty sure it's not going to cost you only $570 in interest spread evenly over 60 months. Your total interest charges according to the kbb.com calculator will be $1,471.29. So for the cash paying people, they might ask why spend $31,471.29 when you can spend $30k (plus maybe they're not risk takers).

However, I agree that if you can find something worthy of dumping your $30k into that will yield a return much greater than $1,471.29 in 5 years, then this approach makes good sense.

You'd also have to consider than anything with a high yield is also high risk and likewise low risk low yield. Thus it may not be THAT easy to find an investment that will make give you a decent return within 5 years.

If it is that easy, please let us all know!
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Old 10-29-2011, 01:25 PM   #89
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Question: how likely is a dealer to offer free upgrades on a car rather than haggle for a lower price. So if I walk in and negotiate a price on a car, but would like the price to be lower... can I counter the dealer with "how about throwing X options for free" to get the final price closer to what I wanted in the first place? Like asking for a free navigation package or a free set of rims for snow tires. Would things like that work at a dealer?
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:41 PM   #90
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Question: how likely is a dealer to offer free upgrades on a car rather than haggle for a lower price. So if I walk in and negotiate a price on a car, but would like the price to be lower... can I counter the dealer with "how about throwing X options for free" to get the final price closer to what I wanted in the first place? Like asking for a free navigation package or a free set of rims for snow tires. Would things like that work at a dealer?
Knowing exactly what you want on the car makes the process much less confusing (to you). Everything they give you for "free" has a price to them. So instead of asking for $1,000 off you ask for a $1,000 set of rims for "free". It costs the dealer $600. So basically you're asking for $600 off. Concentrate on the car only and get dealers to "bid" for your business.
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:48 PM   #91
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Knowing exactly what you want on the car makes the process much less confusing (to you). Everything they give you for "free" has a price to them. So instead of asking for $1,000 off you ask for a $1,000 set of rims for "free". It costs the dealer $600. So basically you're asking for $600 off. Concentrate on the car only and get dealers to "bid" for your business.
I understand the dealer has an invoice cost on all the add-ons. I would go into a situation knowing approximately how much each of the items I was asking for were worth. My point is, if a dealer won't budge on the base price of the car, are they more willing to budge on the price of any addons I was going to ask for.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:10 PM   #92
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The wife and I went looking at a car yesterday with that only in mind, LOOKING. We wanted to see the inside and see how a car seat would fit. The salesman came out asked if we needed help, I told him we only wanted to look at the interior of the car because we were going to purchase in the next couple months.

Everything was fine asked us if we wanted to go inside to get some info on that model... we ended up in there for almost 1 hour because he wanted to try so hard to sell us a car that very day. I kept telling him I was not looking to buy today as I told him when I asked to see the interior. He brings out the manager, I tell him the same thing. I felt like I was trying to be forced to buy a car.

Was there something else I should have said? Or were they just being pushy? I thought I made it clear that I only wanted to see the inside of a car so we could be sure this was one of the cars we were thinking of.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:13 PM   #93
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I understand the dealer has an invoice cost on all the add-ons. I would go into a situation knowing approximately how much each of the items I was asking for were worth. My point is, if a dealer won't budge on the base price of the car, are they more willing to budge on the price of any addons I was going to ask for.
If they are willing to give you the rims for free, that means they would've been willing to knock $600 off the price of the car. Now you're asking a different question; whether they're willing to budge on the price of add-ons. If these add-ons are factory- or distributor-installed options that have readily-available invoice prices (Edmunds), why not just start negotiate price of the car based on invoice? IOW, ask how much are you willing to sell me the car based on invoice + dealer fees + sales tax + title and registration. That way, you get a quote such as invoice +$200 + the rest. You can add all the options you want. The quote is still invoice +$200 + the rest. It's a different story if you're talking about a set of aftermarket rims.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:22 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Imprezd 1 View Post
The wife and I went looking at a car yesterday with that only in mind, LOOKING. We wanted to see the inside and see how a car seat would fit. The salesman came out asked if we needed help, I told him we only wanted to look at the interior of the car because we were going to purchase in the next couple months.

Everything was fine asked us if we wanted to go inside to get some info on that model... we ended up in there for almost 1 hour because he wanted to try so hard to sell us a car that very day. I kept telling him I was not looking to buy today as I told him when I asked to see the interior. He brings out the manager, I tell him the same thing. I felt like I was trying to be forced to buy a car.

Was there something else I should have said? Or were they just being pushy? I thought I made it clear that I only wanted to see the inside of a car so we could be sure this was one of the cars we were thinking of.
No, they're just being pushy and/or it's near the end of the month and they needed to meet their quotas. Did you get to see the car? Which dealer was this?
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:29 PM   #95
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The wife and I went looking at a car yesterday with that only in mind, LOOKING. We wanted to see the inside and see how a car seat would fit. The salesman came out asked if we needed help, I told him we only wanted to look at the interior of the car because we were going to purchase in the next couple months.

Everything was fine asked us if we wanted to go inside to get some info on that model... we ended up in there for almost 1 hour because he wanted to try so hard to sell us a car that very day. I kept telling him I was not looking to buy today as I told him when I asked to see the interior. He brings out the manager, I tell him the same thing. I felt like I was trying to be forced to buy a car.

Was there something else I should have said? Or were they just being pushy? I thought I made it clear that I only wanted to see the inside of a car so we could be sure this was one of the cars we were thinking of.
I was going to say I probably would have told them that the pushier they got with forcing the sale, the more they'll help me remember not to come back to that dealership. BUT, based on the fact that dealerships have high turnover, there's a good chance the guy trying to sell you the car won't be there in a few months. Thus, he doesn't really lose anything by trying to push the car on you that day.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:29 PM   #96
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If they are willing to give you the rims for free, that means they would've been willing to knock $600 off the price of the car. Now you're asking a different question; whether they're willing to budge on the price of add-ons. If these add-ons are factory- or distributor-installed options that have readily-available invoice prices (Edmunds), why not just start negotiate price of the car based on invoice? IOW, ask how much are you willing to sell me the car based on invoice + dealer fees + sales tax + title and registration. That way, you get a quote such as invoice +$200 + the rest. You can add all the options you want. The quote is still invoice +$200 + the rest. It's a different story if you're talking about a set of aftermarket rims.
I'd really be interested in Beyer Subaru or Crashsectors perspective on this (since the thread is about asking a Car Salesman...).
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:44 PM   #97
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Question: how likely is a dealer to offer free upgrades on a car rather than haggle for a lower price. So if I walk in and negotiate a price on a car, but would like the price to be lower... can I counter the dealer with "how about throwing X options for free" to get the final price closer to what I wanted in the first place? Like asking for a free navigation package or a free set of rims for snow tires. Would things like that work at a dealer?
There are no "free" upgradres. Someone is paying for them. Depending on the store will depend on the cost of the parts/labor.

Negotiations are just that. If the dealer wants to "sweeten" the deal, that's on them.
Some might be willing to eat the cost of something to make a deal. Some might laugh in your face and ask you to leave.

A free NAV package could be 1,700-2,300 depending on the Mfr.

A set of rims can be 600-6,000 depending on the Mfr.

A set of tires can be 250-1,200 depening on the Mfr.

So what do you think a dealer would want to throw in?

I would reccomend focusing on a Sale Price that will make you happy and don't feel like you have to resort to a ditch effort to get the right price.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:51 PM   #98
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So what do you think a dealer would want to throw in?
Some dealers like throwing in a "free" engine warranty for life.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:56 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Imprezd 1 View Post
The wife and I went looking at a car yesterday with that only in mind, LOOKING. We wanted to see the inside and see how a car seat would fit. The salesman came out asked if we needed help, I told him we only wanted to look at the interior of the car because we were going to purchase in the next couple months.

Everything was fine asked us if we wanted to go inside to get some info on that model... we ended up in there for almost 1 hour because he wanted to try so hard to sell us a car that very day. I kept telling him I was not looking to buy today as I told him when I asked to see the interior. He brings out the manager, I tell him the same thing. I felt like I was trying to be forced to buy a car.

Was there something else I should have said? Or were they just being pushy? I thought I made it clear that I only wanted to see the inside of a car so we could be sure this was one of the cars we were thinking of.
The Salesman did what he was supposed to do, in the classic sense of car sales.
He tried to take you through the sales process. When it fell apart he introduced his Mgr.Blah, blah, blah...

These are things that have to happen at just about every store or the Salesman will be fired.

At the point that you feel uncomfortable or pressured, Just leave. Get up, say thanks, tell the Mgr your researching, and leave.

That the Salesman had you there for an hour is wrong on your part and their part. You don't have to be rude but you can be direct about exactly what your intentions are for this visit.

He was obviously being pushy and trying his hardest to make a sale that day.

When Salesman are desperate it comes off that way. When you are researching, you are doing just that. Gathering info on the different models of interest.

These forms of sales tactics drive business our way in droves. We are just a lot more relaxed and easy than most of the stores in our are.

Please try not to hold anything against the Salesman. They are just doing there jobs. It's not the right way, but they are trying. It's a sink or swim type of job and it's not cut out for everyone.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:59 PM   #100
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Some dealers like throwing in a "free" engine warranty for life.
It's not "free". The warranties cost the dealer anywhere from 200-over 2,000.

The cost of the warranty is built into the deal.

So if I sell you a car for 32,250.

I "throw" in a free warranty that costs us 250.

You just got the car for 32,000.
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