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Old 11-23-2011, 12:43 PM   #226
IMPREZive 02 WRX
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Originally Posted by Breezio
10K over sticker? Ye fricking gads.
A dealer near me did that with the STi and the Evo when they came out. The window sticker listed a $10,000 charge called "ADM," making the car well over 40k. I assume it stood for a-hole dealer markup.
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:52 PM   #227
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I like the wing, I'm ok with the RWD, but it needs a turbo version. The anemic N/A motor is going to get spanked by almost everything.

I hate greedy dealerships with their BS markup.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:10 PM   #228
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I like the wing, I'm ok with the RWD, but it needs a turbo version. The anemic N/A motor is going to get spanked by almost everything.
Really? How many other RWD coupes are out there that weigh around 2500lbs. and make more then 200HP?

S2K and RX8 are the only things that come to my mind and both of them weigh several hundered pounds more.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:43 PM   #229
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I'm not goin to lie... As much as I wanna cry about the lack of turbo.... I would buy this... In a heart beat...and prolly sell my 300whp 06wrx along the way. It's just too sexy. It's the more manly option towards a Miata. And a torqueless S2k
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Old 11-24-2011, 02:26 AM   #230
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Really? How many other RWD coupes are out there that weigh around 2500lbs. and make more then 200HP?

S2K and RX8 are the only things that come to my mind and both of them weigh several hundered pounds more.
As if the only cars you'll run into on the road is s2k's, rx8's and miata's. Unless those are the only cars you want to compete with, the BRZ needs a turbo version.
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Old 11-24-2011, 07:40 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Fierysun

As if the only cars you'll run into on the road is s2k's, rx8's and miata's. Unless those are the only cars you want to compete with, the BRZ needs a turbo version.
If you want to street race a coupe, buy a ZR1. Even if it had a turbo and 300 horsepower, you'd still run into faster cars on the road.
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:30 PM   #232
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I was exaggerating a little bit with the 10k over sticker lol
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:55 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
As if the only cars you'll run into on the road is s2k's, rx8's and miata's. Unless those are the only cars you want to compete with, the BRZ needs a turbo version.
Compete? have you not heard of car 'classes'? I don't expect an Elise to compete with an Enzo, but prevent it from being an amazing car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMPREZive 02 WRX View Post
If you want to street race a coupe, buy a ZR1. Even if it had a turbo and 300 horsepower, you'd still run into faster cars on the road.
Exactly.

I wonder just how many cars on the road are close to it's power specs in it's weight class.
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Old 11-24-2011, 02:52 PM   #234
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Compete? have you not heard of car 'classes'? I don't expect an Elise to compete with an Enzo, but prevent it from being an amazing car.



Exactly.

I wonder just how many cars on the road are close to it's power specs in it's weight class.
Personally, i don't find the 200bhp and sub classes to be much fun. If you want another Rx8, where it handles good but have no power, than the n/a brz is for you.

Last edited by Fierysun; 11-24-2011 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 11-24-2011, 02:55 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by IMPREZive 02 WRX View Post
If you want to street race a coupe, buy a ZR1. Even if it had a turbo and 300 horsepower, you'd still run into faster cars on the road.
Do you know a Camry v6 will out accelerate a s2k going up hill? That's what i'm talking about. A low powered suppose it sport car can be passed by a family car in regular driving situations. So, why shouldn't Subaru offer a turbo version for the people that want more power (and potential)?

Last edited by Fierysun; 11-24-2011 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 11-24-2011, 03:59 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun

Do you know a Camry v6 will out accelerate a s2k going up hill? That's what i'm talking about. A low powered suppose it sport car can be passed by a family car in regular driving situations. So, why shouldn't Subaru offer a turbo version for the people that want more power (and potential)?
So what you're saying is a larger V6 has more torque than a 2 liter inline 4? I suppose in this scenario, both cars are driven foot to the floor. That's still street racing not normal driving.
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Old 11-24-2011, 04:25 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by IMPREZive 02 WRX View Post
So what you're saying is a larger V6 has more torque than a 2 liter inline 4? I suppose in this scenario, both cars are driven foot to the floor. That's still street racing not normal driving.
What hole have you been living in, where everything is street racing when you push on the gas? Get a clue.
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Old 11-24-2011, 04:31 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Fierysun

What hole have you been living in, where everything is street racing when you push on the gas? Get a clue.
The hole where a police officer sees two cars side by side at WOT as "racing on a public roadway", no matter how slow they are. It carries a hefty fine and a whole lot of points and can be used at the officer's discretion. Maybe I'm just old, but my regular driving isn't at WOT.
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Old 11-24-2011, 04:36 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by IMPREZive 02 WRX View Post
The hole where a police officer sees two cars side by side at WOT as "racing on a public roadway", no matter how slow they are. It carries a hefty fine and a whole lot of points and can be used at the officer's discretion. Maybe I'm just old, but my regular driving isn't at WOT.
Have you heard of merging onto traffic? Driving up a high evalution mountain? Driving in LA traffic. There's a ton of situation where power comes into play that has nothing to do with street racing.

Do you ride a motorcycle? If you do, then you should already know the golden rule to survival. Avoid the potential risk/accident by riding/driving around it, instead of trying to brake for it. Same thing applies to driving a car.

Last edited by Fierysun; 11-24-2011 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 11-24-2011, 04:42 PM   #240
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I saw it at the LA auto show, it looks good, it had a complete flat belly on it so you could not see any thing, ithink that needs to make its way in to production as part of the aero

I really dont care turbo or NA or if it has direct exhaust injection, as long as the car is balanced overall it think it will be good car and I will still consider it.

Personally, my "anemic" 100ish HP miata does just fine every where I drive, including the track.

IMO, if the brembos on this concept are from current or past STi that is a huge mistake and disservice to the car in handling and overall drive-ability, especially if it is staying NA and or low power.

Last edited by TougeRenner; 11-24-2011 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 11-24-2011, 06:09 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun

Have you heard of merging onto traffic? Driving up a high evalution mountain? Driving in LA traffic. There's a ton of situation where power comes into play that has nothing to do with street racing.

Do you ride a motorcycle? If you do, then you should already know the golden rule to survival. Avoid the potential risk/accident by riding/driving around it, instead of trying to brake for it. Same thing applies to driving a car.
The closest I've ever been to mountains is the Poconos, and it was too cold and snowy for power to be a factor in anything. I could imagine having more torque would make dry uphill driving more fun, but that's not what the BRZ is for. For driving up steep mountains with the mission of getting in front of a Camry for whatever reason, get an Impreza STi.
Here in NJ, the merge lanes are long enough that even my incredibly underpowered Transit Connect loaded up with tools can survive. Of there's a faster car in the other lane, they end up in front. The end.
I thought LA traffic didn't move, but I'm not from LA so I wouldn't know. If its anything like NYC traffic, functional brakes are more useful than an engine.

Mazda did eventually come out with the MS Miata, so who knows, Subaru may or may not go for that market as well. Or, you could throw the warranty away and attempt to swap it and go custom with the plumbing. Then you have the benefit of everyone expecting you to be slow.
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Old 11-24-2011, 06:51 PM   #242
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Regardless on how or what conditions you would drive the car in, there's a market for both the N/A and turbo version of the BRZ. I don't see why Subaru shouldn't make both, especially when they already have extensive experience with turbo engines.

If Subaru does offer the BRZ with a turbo version, it'll become the darling of the import scene. If not, it'll be another RX8.

Last edited by Fierysun; 11-24-2011 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 11-24-2011, 07:03 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun
Regardless on how or what conditions you would drive the car in, there's a market for both the N/A and turbo version of the BRZ. I don't see why Subaru shouldn't make both, especially when they already have extensive experience with turbo engines.
Agreed. When it's released, I'm going to test drive it with the intention of replacing my RS as an autox car. If its painfully slow, I'll hold off and stick with what I've got. One thing is sure - if it doesn't handle like a champ, I won't settle for it.
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Old 11-24-2011, 07:10 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by TougeRenner View Post
I saw it at the LA auto show, it looks good, it had a complete flat belly on it so you could not see any thing, ithink that needs to make its way in to production as part of the aero

I really dont care turbo or NA or if it has direct exhaust injection, as long as the car is balanced overall it think it will be good car and I will still consider it.

Personally, my "anemic" 100ish HP miata does just fine every where I drive, including the track.

IMO, if the brembos on this concept are from current or past STi that is a huge mistake and disservice to the car in handling and overall drive-ability, especially if it is staying NA and or low power.
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Old 11-24-2011, 07:32 PM   #245
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Is that from the blinker fluid and muffler bearing site? I can't remember the name right now.
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Old 11-24-2011, 10:36 PM   #246
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Is that from the blinker fluid and muffler bearing site? I can't remember the name right now.
no, I'm not sure the origins but its been quite popular over on miataturbo.net recently
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:51 PM   #247
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I think people are getting carried away with the false assumption that a 200hp car that weighs 2500lbs. is slow.

Sure there are faster cars, duh, but I highly doubt the NA BRZ will be a slow car.
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Old 11-25-2011, 07:10 PM   #248
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Car will probably end up weighing 2600-2900 lbs I hope not though
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:54 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezio
I think people are getting carried away with the false assumption that a 200hp car that weighs 2500lbs. is slow.

Sure there are faster cars, duh, but I highly doubt the NA BRZ will be a slow car.
It's not a false assumption. 2500lbs with 200bhp is not light enough for it to be in the fast category. If it was 2000lbs that would be a different story.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:25 AM   #250
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It's not a false assumption. 2500lbs with 200bhp is not light enough for it to be in the fast category. If it was 2000lbs that would be a different story.
No, it is a false assumption. Think of when the 2002 WRX came out. It had 227hp and weighed roughly 3100lbs. That means that every 1 horsepower is pulling around 13.6lbs (Power to weight ratio of .073). Compare that to the 200hp and theoretical 2500lbs weight of the BRZ. Every 1 horsepower of the BRZ would be pulling around 12.5lbs (Power to weight ratio of .08).

In theory, the BRZ should be faster than a stock 2002 WRX due to it having a higher power to weight ratio. This of course does not take the torque curve and power delivery into effect or any other variables.
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