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Old 11-02-2011, 07:21 PM   #1
wrxstijdm
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Default JDM Gentlemen agreement: true or not?

Hey guys,

Apparently there was a gentlemen agreement in Japan some years ago to limit production cars to 276 HP... But even if different automakers claimed their cars were limited to that power, car apparently made more than that under stock conditions...

Does anybody know if that's true or not? If true, how much was the real HP on our cars (claimed to having 280 HP for instance in the case of the STI)
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:34 PM   #2
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yes. it is true. however the ecu's were typically detuned to a lower boost level from factory to keep this rule in effect. didnt take much for a simple boost controller to break the agreement after the fact
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:07 PM   #3
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Do you really think an RB26 only had 276bhp, or roughly 200whp?
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Old 11-03-2011, 02:34 AM   #4
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I always thought that it was -advertized- HP, and the car itself wasn't as governed.

I also thought it was more insurance or tax driven than a supposed 'gentleman's' agreement.
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Old 11-03-2011, 07:43 AM   #5
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There was an agreement. You have to look at the advertised HP of the JDM Spec C in a V7, V8 and V9. There were changes but the real power was not advertised untill 2007, I think.

Also, this agreement did not include limited edition cars, like the S202, 203, 204 and those were over 276HP advertised. The factory tuning is different on these.

There is a second agreement or maybe a regulation. The maximum speed cannot be over 180 Km/h.
This is reflected more than one would think. In a JDM car, even if this limitation is removed from the ECU (which is possible), there is no boost control over 180km/h and I don't know how that would be changed.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
There was an agreement. You have to look at the advertised HP of the JDM Spec C in a V7, V8 and V9. There were changes but the real power was not advertised untill 2007, I think.

Also, this agreement did not include limited edition cars, like the S202, 203, 204 and those were over 276HP advertised. The factory tuning is different on these.

There is a second agreement or maybe a regulation. The maximum speed cannot be over 180 Km/h.
This is reflected more than one would think. In a JDM car, even if this limitation is removed from the ECU (which is possible), there is no boost control over 180km/h and I don't know how that would be changed.
Wasn't it 300 kmh (186~mph)?. That was also the case for bikes.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:58 AM   #7
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No, look at the jdm Sti clusters, they are marked 180 km/h. People are buying these, buying from IAP the mph conversion module and then covering the K in km/h with black marker.
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:07 AM   #8
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Ah, yes. I'm getting my random facts confused... lol.
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Old 11-03-2011, 01:58 PM   #9
wrxstijdm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
.

There is a second agreement or maybe a regulation. The maximum speed cannot be over 180 Km/h.
This is reflected more than one would think. In a JDM car, even if this limitation is removed from the ECU (which is possible), there is no boost control over 180km/h and I don't know how that would be changed.
Agreed, JDM clusters get only up to 180 km/h...

However, I didn't know that there's no boost control if you remove the limitation from the ECU??

So, is the real HP over the advertised 280? Or cars were really "downgraded" or "detuned" to match the 280?
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Old 11-03-2011, 02:33 PM   #10
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Real horsepower over advertised. About 7 or 8 years ago there was an operation out of AZ that was importing STi clips into the States. They put a v5 STi on an engine dyno. It made 340bhp in stock trim. Stock ECU. No chip. Just an engine dyno run of the longblock with turbo...
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:21 PM   #11
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Hmmmm that's exactly the kind of information I wanted to know... so probably most of the V3/V4/V5/V6 STIs might be producing around 340 bhp under stock conditions....
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:28 PM   #12
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If you want to get a more concrete idea of particular models, go look in proven power bragging forum for results people have had with vf22 and vf23 and vf24 and vf29 turbos over the years. Look for USDM cars with boost pressure numbers similar to stock from the factory on the STi models in question.
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:30 PM   #13
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Stock boost on STIs is around 0.9 bar right?
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:47 PM   #14
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The peak boost is higher to increase torque then tappers down to as low as 0.8 bar at peak horse power depending on model year and engine.

When you use a HKS SLD to remove/bypass the speed limiter boost control is still intact throughout the rev range in all gears, also above 180 kph.
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:52 PM   #15
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How about if using the Pivot one? Would that also control boost above 180 km/h?

http://www.pivotracing.com/product/SML
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Old 11-03-2011, 06:53 PM   #16
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Sorry, my information is from ROM and that has to do with cars which are newer than 2002. I'm not in this forum that often.
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Old 11-03-2011, 06:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
there is no boost control over 180km/h and I don't know how that would be changed.
you sure about that?
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Old 11-03-2011, 07:10 PM   #18
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This forum is for cars before 2002. Within this forum, the information which I have (which applies to cars newer than 2002) does not apply.

So, no, I am not sure that for JDM Sti older than 2002, like V4,5,6, what I said applies, it probably does not.
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Old 11-03-2011, 07:12 PM   #19
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I mean for v7+
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Old 11-03-2011, 07:27 PM   #20
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V7 has a speed limiting wastegate. I have tried to increase it in the software at it and it can be lifted upto 158MPH. I had thought that it's maxed stock.

On my V9 it has to do with the boost compensation per gear.
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Old 11-03-2011, 07:30 PM   #21
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interesting. I wouldn't think a 16bit ecu would have the ability to control boost at speed.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:49 PM   #22
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interesting
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