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Old 08-02-2010, 06:51 PM   #1
kenikh
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Default BUILT EJ22T Hybrid...smaller, cheaper, faster and more reliable than yours!

I’ve decided to build a 2.2 whose only goal is to make the built motor fanboys cry. Not only because of the mad power it makes, but because of how bulletproof it will be and by how inexpensively it will be built. Yep, big words from a noob.

Anyway, in researching the right hybrid build for my EJ22T shortblock, it seems that every EJ22T build concentrates on increasing displacement by adding a stroker crank or boring the cylinders for big forged pistons. While this gets you a nice, closed deck hotrod, it detracts from some of the finest characteristics of the EJ22T:
Short stroke (nice, quick revs)
THICK sleeves (will hold tons of boost)
By “right” build, I have decided to build a motor that is true to the EJ22T’s character by:
Using as many stock components as possible (pistons, crank, etc)
Improving flow with other stock heads
Using aftermarket parts, only where inexpensive and appropriate (ACL bearings, ARP head studs)
Making bagloads of power
Ultimately, shooting for low cost, comparable to a STOCK rebuild
What, cheap, reliable and powerful? For those of you that haven’t closed the thread already, dismissing it as noob enthusiasm run amok, hang tight. By spending a little time thinking out the details, you can have it all.
Thus, the basic bits:
Stock EJ22T pistons
Stock EJ22T 75mm crank
Stock SOHC EJ25 heads
STI rods
How do we get there? Before going into specifics on power targets, let’s get some basics out of the way. Here goes:

EJ22T Piston dimensions
The stock EJ22T pistons are odd birds:
They are pretty heavy
They protrude just under 1mm above the deck
One the positive side, they are much more robust than later vintage STI pistons. Sounds like a pretty good candidate for some serious boost! Notice anything intriguing in the picture below?


Yes indeed, just look at the top ring land thicknesses, side by side. For those who are wondering, here’s a comparison of the top ring land thicknesses between an EJ22 piston and a new STI piston:
EJ22T: 7.10mm
STI: 4.53mm
I’ll say that this is pretty good evidence in support of anecdotal accounts of EJ22T pistons taking abuse better than STI pistons. There’s really no need to guess why STI pistons crack lands on #4 under serious boost and EJ22Ts don’t.


Now to repeat the second bummer regarding EJ22T pistons: they protrude approximately 1mm above the deck in stock form and leaves the EJ22T builder needing to use a fat 1.3mm HG. This results in the following CR when mated to the terrible flowing EJ22T heads.


Uh oh…upgrading to better flowing heads leaves us in a serious CR hole, with the larger dome volume:


So what are the cheap, yet creative to do? Simple, really…the little quirk of the EJ22T piston protruding above the deck comes and saves our bacon! By removing that pesky above deck piston protrusion by turning/milling/flycutting the piston tops down to flush, we solve a great deal of our CR problem.
How?
1. Cutting the pistons ~1mm to flush with the deck rebates dish volume (EJ22T= -28cc dish)
2. With the pistons flush, this allows you to run an STI .0236” (compressed) HG
Combine these factors and you get more CR. How much more?With just 2cc of dish recovery (by shortening the piston) in conjunction with a .6mm (.0236”) HG (now that the piston no longer rises above deck), this brings CR back up to reasonable number:


The CR, while lower than flame throwing STIs, is still higher than stock and in the realm of acceptability for strong boost.

*Note - I’ll know the exact dome cc recovery once I get them cut and measured, but for now, suffice it say that this endeavor should at least recover the stock CR of the EJ22T @ 8:1.

EJ22T Piston Strength
What about strength? Won’t cutting the pistons make them too weak for boost? Let’s go back to our top ring land measurements:
EJ22T: 7.10mm
STI: 4.53mm
Even with 1mm taken off of the top, @ 6.10mm thickness for the top ring land, that’s still 1.6mm more material than the STI. Burly! Finish the coup de gras by ceramic coating the piston crowns, DLC coating the skirts, coating the lands and oil shed coating the undersides and you’ll have some serious pistons. Regarding the coatings, I can do this at home (as can you) for the added margin – its fun and smells great in your oven when setting the coating.

Next step: Measure!
This little foray into the unknown is of course contingent on the bores and pistons speccing out. The bores look nice, without scoring and the piston overall look good – I just need to check roundness of the bore and pistons, and then check the ring land gap to know for sure. If all goes well, I’ll re-ring the pistons, deglaze the cylinders and go, go, go!


The other outstanding question is valve to piston clearance…will the EJ22T piston need to be pocketed for valves with the tighter tolerances? We’ll see.


BTW, here are my pistons, as removed…yech, rings on all four were stuck as a MF:


I’ll be soda blasting these this week then getting busy with the mic/calipers.

Should it all check out…
It will be time to start building this thing in anger. There’s plenty to still be fleshed out in terms of spec, much of it contingent upon any number of things that could go wrong or not spec out. For now, here are the basics:
Turbo? OK, this one is off the beaten track, but I had it lying around: Evo IX 16G w/ 10.5 hotside & custom Blouch billet wheel
Cams, injectors, headers, uppipe, downpipe, catback, blah, blah, blah: all TBD. Let’s get the block assembled first.
Tune and ECU? Go with a pro…Maxwell Power is close to home, so hopefully Dom will look upon this rat motor without disgust.
Goal: 375/400 WHP/WTQ @ 24psi
Next…uh…next steps:
Get some STI rods
Measure the piston protrusion above deck w/ the rods
Cut the pistons to measured spec
cc the pistons
More to come, maybe not soon due to vacation, but coming nonetheless.
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:33 PM   #2
jaybirde978
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Default Say what??

Kenik,
I love your enthusiasim ,But some of us here have been doing this for a couple weeks,But as I said you sound like your determined & i really admire that as said ,but be carefull as it's been tried 1991 was along time ago
(compliments of legacycentral)
"this has happened to me twice now in two different blocks
both times in the same cylinder (#4 drivers side back cylinder) and on the top of the piston "





& I have a 5 gal pail of broken pistons as well, But dont take this wrong, I can see your not gonna let the small things get in your way

I wish you great luck & have suscrib to your post as there should be much knoledge to gain from this

Jay
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:12 PM   #3
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so what is this motor going into and what are you using for engine management???
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:26 PM   #4
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Good luck on the project but isn't the evo 9 turbo a td05hr? Maybe it doesn't matter.
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:50 PM   #5
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you should definitely be using forged pistons if you want to make power.
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:05 PM   #6
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375WHP on a 16G?

Use Forged pistons absolutely, Wiseco makes an EJ22 piston with massive thick ringlnads and anti det groves. You will need them.

Cheap rarely ever equals reliable. Attention to detail is super important to building a reliable engine.

Good luck with it. We'll be watching the thread.



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Old 08-02-2010, 10:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
so what is this motor going into and what are you using for engine management???
This is going into my wife's 1999 Forester...it is one of the odd '99 Phase 2SOHC EJ251s. My interest in SOHC is being able to use the majority of the factory harness and custom roll the remaining wiring, not to mention they are cheap and flow great. BTW, the car's current motor isn't coming apart, so I can't plunder those.

Would prefer to use a factory turbo EMS, but realize this will be a challenge given that getting a factory OBD-II turbo EMS isn't going to happen. I can handle Megasquirt-3 in my sleep, but again, OBD-II is a major driver here, as this car isn't a 40 year old Porsche that doesn't have to pass smog in WA state (my usual automotive poison). I am still considering options, but while this motor is going together, EMS isn't top of mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theotherguy View Post
Good luck on the project but isn't the evo 9 turbo a td05hr? Maybe it doesn't matter.
It's a TD05HR-16G6 10.5, that has been modded like so:


It's just a rotten good turbo, especially now that you can get a full Sube exhaust that will run a 10.5 and Mitsu flange in the stock location (rotated):


I may TIG my own, since this system is quite expensive, but you never know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamal View Post
you should definitely be using forged pistons if you want to make power.
Yes, I know. That doesn't mean I can't have fun trying...if they get crushed by the power, it's just another reason to go out to the garage. If they don't, then

Quote:
Originally Posted by soobaviator View Post
375WHP on a 16G?
Use Forged pistons absolutely, Wiseco makes an EJ22 piston with massive thick ringlnads and anti det groves. You will need them.
Cheap rarely ever equals reliable. Attention to detail is super important to building a reliable engine.
Good luck with it. We'll be watching the thread.
-soobaviator
Yep, 375HP. This sucker blows 48 lb/min. Here's a pretty typical dyno with an identical turbo:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyn...ock-turbo.html
It's all bout the free flowing hotside.

Detail is my middle name when it comes to motor assembly. If you've ever built an air cooled flat 6, anything less is immediate and cubic dollar disaster.

BTW, I looked hard at the Wiseco K601M975 97.5mm pistons. They are damned reasonaby priced, for the quality, but again, this isn't really about cost, it's about "giving it a shot".

Last edited by kenikh; 08-02-2010 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:50 AM   #8
Cbgrandtheftauto
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ok im kinda lost..were you planning on running high amounts of boost with the stock pistons??
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:06 AM   #9
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So you don't plan to use forged pistons...because you want to see if they fail?



I'm not going to go down this path. Have fun dude.
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:59 AM   #10
kenikh
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Don't overanalyze this boys - I don't want to see if they fail. I am saying they won't fail. Take a foray over the RS25 and see Skully's EJ25D open deck beast on stock pistons running 40 psi.

It's all tune. If you don't detontate, S H I T D O E S N ' T B R E A K. Believe it.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:23 AM   #11
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I am entertained by any thing different and proving anyone wrong.
Do I think this will work: NO...
Do I hope you succeed. Yes.

My build is some what of a experiment and have got the same criticism.

Good luck.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:30 AM   #12
kenikh
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Thanks, Ozzy. I'm not here to create an agenda, just to have fun and build a motor. Admission is free, so no one has to join the party.

As an aside: three times I have been told by the powers that be that my goals were impossible when building a motor. Three times, they were wrong. I am a contrarian by nature, so bear with the idiosyncracies. They're usually worth it.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:52 AM   #13
FuJi K
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EMS should be TOP of the list because that will decide your top end of the motor.

btw, I'm on built 22T/255 on '06 WRX harness&immobilizer
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:12 PM   #14
kenikh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
EMS should be TOP of the list because that will decide your top end of the motor.

btw, I'm on built 22T/255 on '06 WRX harness&immobilizer
Very good detail. After doing some additional research, I was unaware of the complex interplay between plug and play compatibility implications between DOHC and SOHC heads, especially in terms of using factory ECUs. Going standalone makes the playing field level, but again, passing OBD-II is a major driver in selection. Thus no trusty old MegaSquirt...man would that make my life easy. Emanage seems intriguing, but I am not a piggyback fan. That said, it has its supporters, it supports OBD-II and has a number of good tuning features.

More research is to come in terms of finding which heads will be best compatible with my goals. If I can't make a 46.6cc head work well without compromise on ECU, I may have to go with custom pistons after all to accomodate.

Here's some interesting EJ22T hybrid data to ponder in the meantime from Wayne Chin's site @ http://wac.addr.com/auto/obs/turbo/ejcalcs.html:

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Old 08-03-2010, 01:20 PM   #15
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I know you're on a budget but.... I went with a WRX swap because tuning was easier with the WRX ECU (OpenSource). My first setup was '02 WRX swap with STOCK EJ22T shortblock. That was running on an EVO3-16G-8cm on pump gas @285whp/270trq on a Mustang Dyno. If you do a simple WRX 2.0L ECU/harness/intake manifold/head swap you can control the engine much better and possibly pass OBD-II tests.

This costs more but then it's stepping up the game. I sold my '02 WRX swap and now running a '06 WRX swap. This gave me AVCS and also 32bit ECU which ups the game a bit more. Currently testing the built motor on a TD06H SL2 20G-8cm w/ EWG on E85.

I've done my fair share of experimenting and MORE to come. You gonna be asking lots of questions with your setup I'm sure .
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:00 PM   #16
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Thanks, Fuji. The head issue is looking like the bugger, right now. I was trying to keep it simple using found/owned/cheap parts, but when is custom ever simple?

Perhaps this is beginning to track into the "more trouble than its worth" arena? I simply wanted to build a more fun motor for the old DD and do it on the (relative) cheap. What's cheap? Budget is always subjective and while going full guns is financially feasible, the budget for this project can't go into paddedroom-land.

My biggest concern is that I am a feature creep junkie...once I change one thing, then everything else goes and I end up with (another) quasi-F1 spec full custom motor...in an SF body. I won't embarass myself with sharing the blow-by-blow from my current 911 turbo build, which has turned into a 4 years opus of spec changes, parts swaps, upgrades, custom CNCed parts (designed by me in SolidWorks, no less), bleeding edge stupidity and general insanity.

This motor can't become one of those, simply because I need to finish that motor first. This project was designed to be a simple, short build.

OK, so perfect world, I buy the forged slugs, get the CR up and use some non-AVCS FXT heads, to leverage the nicer ECU. I guess a set of Wisecos won't hurt the cause...will it?
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:21 PM   #17
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Best running is a simple WRX harness merge with '06+ EJ255(FXT/WRX) '07+ LGT heads and run those heads without AVCS with the EJ22T block on custom pistons and EJ255/EJ257 rods. Don't forget to grab a shim to add to the EJ22T oil pump. It lets out pressure at 73psi and only has 1 shim oppose to the WRX's 2 shims.

There's a lot of things to learn from all the Subaru engines to put together a hybrid.
My EJ22T is a bit of everything.

If you don't mind reading... hopefully it helps some.
http://mnsubaru.com/forums/showthrea...F8F5SD-Project
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:23 PM   #18
kenikh
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^^^ I don't mind reading - I am research junkie, too. Thanks for the advice and the pointers.
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:22 PM   #19
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I have a whole car 05 wrx harness right across the sound if you need one. Always open to trades, don't see myself using it.
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:32 PM   #20
kenikh
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Intriguing. If I go DOHC, I may take you up on it.
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Old 08-05-2010, 07:36 PM   #21
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Interesting thread and I really like your attitude but turning a N/A car into a turbo is not the easiest of projects. Throw in the hybrid engine build and you have a very complicated car that is gong to need several custom parts to operate properly. I know because I have done it with the EJ22t into my 2000 2.5RS SOHC. I think the easiest way for you to accomplish this is to piggyback the stock ECU or the harness merge like FUJI K is recommending.

Don't fool your self into thinking this will be cheaper than just doing a WRX or STI swap because in reality it is not.

And as for emissions testing....... there are ways around it. Only King County requires it...........

Check out my build thread if you want an idea of what you are up against here

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1731749
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Old 08-05-2010, 08:01 PM   #22
kenikh
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GREAT THREAD. Fantastic detail - I planned to do the same on teardown, but got lazy with the camera. The ghetto chrome on the engine case was a nice touch.

Who did the machine work on the engine case, BTW? Where'd you source the heads...locally? I am looking for a set.

I'm not really focusing on "cheaper" - Wiseco pistons are very reasonably priced, etc. Simply trying to see what can be built - Skully over on RS25 inspired me to use as much stock stuff as possible.
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Old 08-05-2010, 08:26 PM   #23
kenikh
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No s..t, you're a Keithley. Which one is your dad? Steve (and Janelle) did all of the wiring in my house back when I lived in Magnoila. You come from good peeps.
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:17 PM   #24
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You really haven't thought through the engine management thing fully have you? You will need to adapt a tuneable factory ECU out of another model. Otherwise you need a standalone. I've always thought about running a standalone while keeping a factory ECU on life support to pass an OBD 2 test. I really think that is possible, especially if you build a custom jumper harness. You will have to feed it the basic signals, then flash it to turn off every DTC and force readiness. But since you are shoehorning this motor in, you are at risk of a huge wiring clusterf--k so be careful.

Since the quality of the tune is what's going to keep your engine alive (for a little while at least) you are not in a good position right now. You have to make a decision about engine management before you start work on the motor.
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:39 PM   #25
kenikh
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You are of course spot on. I guess that I have been waffling waiting to see what heads drop in my lap. SOHC means a bi-annual engine swap, standalone + jumper harness or piggyback. Phase 2 DOHC means adapted ECU and harness. I am half tempted to go MS3 since it is a known commodity and one of my good friends is likely one of the best MS tuners in the world. BUT, a jumper harness is NOT in my wheelhouse and MS3's knock control is pretty untested, so it's a wash. The US distributor for Wolf lives right down the street from me, too and the v500 is bad ass, but same issues w/ the jumper harness.

I know Emanage isn't top of everyone's list, but the Ultimate reads a pretty good spec sheet. Would allow leaving my current ECU in...not a terrible option.

I'll get there...
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