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Old 09-07-2015, 01:37 PM   #1
Ernysm
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OMGHi2U Check out these innards. Opinions?

hello fellow subie owners,

I bought this bugeye with what I thought, at the time, was rod knock. The engine also had low compression in cyl#4 causing a misfire that would shake the car back and fourth.

Anyway, I was told by a subaru mechanic this it was a ringland failure, he also told me that I most likely had head damage and cylinder wall damage and i would be better off buying a different engine and he suggested, of course, a V7 EJ207 ...

As awesome as a EJ207 swap would be, realistically, I cant afford that kind of swap right now. After almost a year of having the bugeye sit I decided to try and rebuild what I have and spend the least amount of money as possible to get it back on the road.

I got the engine out, took the heads off and found what was causing the misfire and low compression on #4 cyl. A burnt exhaust valve...

Cracked the block open expecting a spun bearing, gnarled ringland or bad main bearing...

























All pistons have good ringlands, cylinder walls dont have any abnormal scratches.

Im a n00b and need some opinions.
What do you guys think of the wear on those rod bearings? I've been told that it looks like normal wear and I could re-ring and new bearings...

I've also read here plenty of horror stories which make me feel super doubtful of putting this thing back together without major machining...

Can i get away with new rings and bearings, hone cylinders and polishing crank? Im confused as to where that knocking came from..

keep in mind I dont have much experience tearing engines apart and rebuilding. Also, all parts are going to be stock. Vehicle has no aftermarket parts and no more power than original is necessary here.

thanks in advance and dont flame me too hard
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Old 09-07-2015, 02:21 PM   #2
Ernysm
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BTW odometer reads 230k
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Old 09-08-2015, 12:23 AM   #3
monkeyposeur
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If you want to stay stock take the block, crank, pistons, and rods and have it all looked over and measured by a good machine shop to make sure everything is in spec. If it is install OEM main and rod bearings. Get the crank polished (won't remove much material) and put it all back together. It's up to you if you get a hone or not. New rings and a hone will require a break in to seat the rings.

If you go to a machine shop do your research and let them know exact what you want done, what the clearances should be, and make them write everything down. If they won't find another shop.

If it was me I'd at least install new rod and mains even though your bearings don't look terrible. The block is already split so why not?

How does the cross hatch look on the cylinder walls? How do the pistons look? If they look good you can reuse the Pistons and rings.

If you get forged Pistons and new rings, and a bore and hone, that will set you back at least $600.

You can replace the bent valve yourself if you get a valve spring compressor and lap the new valve in. You'll need to get a new bucket of shim for it though.

Get some feeler gauges and check the lash clearances. the clearances may be too tight and burnt your valve. Get the injectors cleaned and flow tested too.

You were able to split the block so don't doubt your abilities to put it back together. I bought a Wrx with a burnt valve a while ago too and had some had learned lessons.
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Old 09-08-2015, 12:40 AM   #4
ImprezaLover94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyposeur View Post
If you get forged Pistons and new rings, and a bore and hone, that will set you back at least $600.
Forged pistons would be terrible for his application since he stated he plans to stay at stock power levels.
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:08 AM   #5
monkeyposeur
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I mainly said that because someone was bound to say "might as well throw in forged pistons bro" and wanted him to know that it would add quite a bit of cost. Thanks for clarifying.
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Old 09-08-2015, 11:56 AM   #6
k.fernandes44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyposeur View Post
If you want to stay stock take the block, crank, pistons, and rods and have it all looked over and measured by a good machine shop to make sure everything is in spec. If it is install OEM main and rod bearings. Get the crank polished (won't remove much material) and put it all back together. It's up to you if you get a hone or not. New rings and a hone will require a break in to seat the rings.

If you go to a machine shop do your research and let them know exact what you want done, what the clearances should be, and make them write everything down. If they won't find another shop.

If it was me I'd at least install new rod and mains even though your bearings don't look terrible. The block is already split so why not?

How does the cross hatch look on the cylinder walls? How do the pistons look? If they look good you can reuse the Pistons and rings.

You can replace the bent valve yourself if you get a valve spring compressor and lap the new valve in. You'll need to get a new bucket of shim for it though.

Get some feeler gauges and check the lash clearances. the clearances may be too tight and burnt your valve. Get the injectors cleaned and flow tested too.

You were able to split the block so don't doubt your abilities to put it back together. I bought a Wrx with a burnt valve a while ago too and had some had learned lessons.
I agree with monkey. If you plan on staying at stock levels take the block, crank, pistons to a reputable machine shop and have all the tolerances measured. Get the crank polished and cylinders honed. Replace the main/rod bearings, valve(s), and rings if necessary and you should be good to go and able to stay under $200 in total depending on the machinist.
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Old 09-09-2015, 11:59 AM   #7
Ernysm
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The cylinder walls look good I have no doubt about it. I can still see the cross hatching without any other marks. The pistons and rings all look good.

I'm going to re-ring the pistons with oem rings and hone the walls. I'm also going to polish the crankshaft and get ACL bearings.

I'm just replacing the one burnt valve. Resurfacing the heads if needed and cleaning everything up.

I have another ej205 longblock that I can later build up with forged internals but I need to learn a thing or two before I can know what I really want out of the car.

I was priced $310 for the machining. I believe that just includes hone, polish, head resurface and thorough check of all parts...still have to buy rings and bearings.
There is definitely no cheap way of doing a rebuild on these engines...
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:09 PM   #8
STiSomeday
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I'd say to either use OEM or King bearings and skip the ACL's. A lot of people have had ACL's with a lot of variance lately.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:41 PM   #9
monkeyposeur
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+1 for OEMs.

Make sure you set the valve lash with the heads torqued to the block. The lash will tighten up when the heads are torqued down. Set the lash at .010" for the exhaust and .008" for the intake valves. I set the valve lash on a set of 205 heads off the block and 14 or 15 of the clearances tightened up. Some as much as .03-.05. Hopefully you can swap around some of your bucket shims and only have to buy a few new ones.


The company23 valve spring compressor works great and will pay for itself if you decide to do some of the headwork yourself.

Buy new OEM intake and exhaust valve guide seals. Your valve guides are most likely fine but you can have them checked out by the machine shop.

Get new water jacket bolt washers with the rubber insert. Cut a groove in a water jacket bolt and a head bolt and use that to clean out all the block threads.

When you get your block and heads back scrub them out with simple green and water in a large bin with engine brushes. You can find them at harbor freight. Ask the machine shop to remove the oil galley plugs in the heads after they hot tank them to make sure there is no debris left in them. Also remove all the galley plugs on the block and scrub them out. You don't want any crap left in there that can destroy your engine upon startup.
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:23 PM   #10
wrx1392
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many people say you can not rebuild a used block ,cause you wont get the main bearings tight enough.i have used the +.0001" (+.026 mm) main bearings and was able to get the clearance with in suby specs. and I would not use ACl as they are a hard bearing(oem cranks are not nitraded or hardened on a 2.0) ,oem or king would be better(I have herd). not sure why Subaru bearings are twice the cost. be sure to ck your wrist pins and the bushing in the small end of the rod. if it had a knock it had to be a rod ,wrist pin bushing ,collapsed piston,or maybe a worn timing belt tensioner,with those miles take a good look at the cam wheels (composite ones on R/H side) and get a new oil pump. if you have a burnt valve im sure the seat will need regrinding, and a good machinist can grind the tip of the valve to set the clearance with out having to buy a new bucket.
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:29 PM   #11
monkeyposeur
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I'd check the clearances on the oil pump gear before buying a new one. They can last a long time. At the very least clean it out, check the plunger, and loctite the screws.
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Old 09-09-2015, 08:59 PM   #12
Ernysm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STiSomeday View Post
I'd say to either use OEM or King bearings and skip the ACL's. A lot of people have had ACL's with a lot of variance lately.
Thanks for the heads up. I have read some not so good things about them but figured it was an individual thing. I dont get OEM bearings because the parts tard at the Subaru dealer told me they only sell them with the connecting rod.. about $80 a piece.

I'll stick with King bearings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyposeur View Post
+1 for OEMs.

Make sure you set the valve lash with the heads torqued to the block. The lash will tighten up when the heads are torqued down. Set the lash at .010" for the exhaust and .008" for the intake valves. I set the valve lash on a set of 205 heads off the block and 14 or 15 of the clearances tightened up. Some as much as .03-.05. Hopefully you can swap around some of your bucket shims and only have to buy a few new ones.
I'll have to tackle this once the block is ready..I have another set of buckets w/ shims so hopefully those help out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyposeur View Post
The company23 valve spring compressor works great and will pay for itself if you decide to do some of the headwork yourself.
looks like useful tool. is there an alternative to buying this tool? Would I pretty much have to remove the cam every time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyposeur View Post
Buy new OEM intake and exhaust valve guide seals. Your valve guides are most likely fine but you can have them checked out by the machine shop.
I'll have them checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyposeur View Post
Get new water jacket bolt washers with the rubber insert. Cut a groove in a water jacket bolt and a head bolt and use that to clean out all the block threads.

When you get your block and heads back scrub them out with simple green and water in a large bin with engine brushes. You can find them at harbor freight. Ask the machine shop to remove the oil galley plugs in the heads after they hot tank them to make sure there is no debris left in them. Also remove all the galley plugs on the block and scrub them out. You don't want any crap left in there that can destroy your engine upon startup.
I have all new engine gasket set from Subaru including the rubber seals/washers. I'll clean everything out for sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx1392 View Post
many people say you can not rebuild a used block ,cause you wont get the main bearings tight enough.i have used the +.0001" (+.026 mm) main bearings and was able to get the clearance with in suby specs. and I would not use ACl as they are a hard bearing(oem cranks are not nitraded or hardened on a 2.0) ,oem or king would be better(I have herd). not sure why Subaru bearings are twice the cost. be sure to ck your wrist pins and the bushing in the small end of the rod. if it had a knock it had to be a rod ,wrist pin bushing ,collapsed piston,or maybe a worn timing belt tensioner,with those miles take a good look at the cam wheels (composite ones on R/H side) and get a new oil pump. if you have a burnt valve im sure the seat will need regrinding, and a good machinist can grind the tip of the valve to set the clearance with out having to buy a new bucket.
Oh man, so considering im buying bearings off of ebay, would it be wise to buy standard size main bearings?

the wrist pin bushings are fine. nothing abnormal there either. I'm starting to think this knocking was coming from something else. upon removal of the flywheel my pilot bearing was practically non-existent there was two balls in there only, or maybe the tensioner.. idk I'm still confused as to where the knocking was coming from.

I'll have to clean the hell out of that oil pump...
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:40 AM   #13
monkeyposeur
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Yes. Each time you check the valve lash you want to install the cam and torque the cam caps down to spec. You'll get really good at it by the time you get everything set.

There are alternatives to getting the company23 tool. You can get a cheap piece of crap tool from harbor freight that will piss you off and cause a lot of frustration, buy a spring compressor that machine shops use but it is expensive and huge, or if you have a drill press you can slot a large socket and make your own tool (I haven't tried this but someone posted how to do this somewhere so you'd have to search). Ask the machine shop how much for the headwork and factor in if the $100 company23 tool is worth it to you. If they can do all the headwork for a couple hundred bucks or so it might be a wash.

Thats BS about the rod bearing only coming with the rods. Check out subarugenuineparts.com. I bought my rod bearings from them for about $80 or something, and my mains for $150 or so. OEM bearings are made under strict quality control so you will have a great product. Inspect each bearing for imperfections and rub each one with a piece of leather or paper bag/newspaper to clear up any tiny imperfections if you find any.

Download the factory service manual (FSM) and familiarize yourself with the process. It will have all the torque specs and lay out how to do everything.
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Old 09-11-2015, 07:18 PM   #14
Ernysm
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thanks for your input. we'll see how all this turns out
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