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Old 11-10-2011, 09:49 PM   #1
Turn in Concepts
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Default NEW!!! TiC FCAR Bushing!!! FCAR YEAH!!

New from TiC made at the request of MSI is the FCAR Bushing.

What is FCAR?

  • Front Control Arm Rear

What is is really?
  • It's FCARing awesome!
  • It's FCARing amazing!
  • It's FCARing autocross legal!!!!!

Seriously guys, where does it go?
  • Look at your front control arm. There's three points on it (Hey, it's a basic triangle)
  • The outer point is the ball joint. This doesn't go there.
  • The forward point would make it the FCAF bushing
  • Thus, by process of elimination it goes in the rear.
  • What you do is press out your stock bushing and put this one in place.

Ok, what does it get me?

  • What doesn't it get you?
  • Shore 95A graphite impregnated medical grade urethane
  • Stainless steel crush tube milled from solid stock
  • Better dynamic geometry because things don't shift as much
  • It'll find your lost dog
  • It'll get you laid
  • It'll make you more attractive
  • It'll make you exclaim "THIS IS FCARING AWESOME!!!"
  • Claims of dog finding and sexual prowess have not been substantiated. But it will make you more attractive by helping your car handle better.

But I don't have a press!!
  • Not to fear. MSI makes a housing for it that is STILL autocross legal!!! It's called the MSI DSS kit.

What about fitment?
  • Saab 9-2X
  • SF Forester
  • SG Forester
  • GC Impreza
  • GD Impreza
  • BC Legacy and Outback
  • BD Legacy and Outback
  • BE Legacy and Outback
  • BG Legacy and Outback
  • BH Legacy and Outback
  • In other words a whole FCARing mess of Subarus!!!

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Old 11-10-2011, 10:05 PM   #2
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a pleasure reading your announcements as always
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenliu84 View Post
a pleasure reading your announcements as always
we aim to please.
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:13 AM   #4
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Isn't this sort to an anti-anti lift?
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reid-o View Post
Isn't this sort to an anti-anti lift?
Oh man. Now you're going to confuse everyone...
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:21 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts

Oh man. Now you're going to confuse everyone...
I work for the government
Nuff said
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:22 AM   #7
hybrid gti 2
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Wondering the same thing
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hybrid gti 2 View Post
Wondering the same thing
this bushing, by virtue of reusing the stock housing does not alter stock anti-lift geometry. Additionally, should you get the MSI housing (such as in the group buy I JUST put up) it will also not alter the stock geometry.

What this does offer is the stiffest bushing for this location that we know of short of moving to a bearing style mount.

Stiff bushing
Self lubricating
better fit of the machined bit (even when compared to stock)

leads to better precision and better control.

I have a bit of an example video showing the underside of the car with some other bushings in place. If you carefully watch you can see the rear of the control arm moving as it crushes that bushing (provided you don't get distracted by the glowing headers).

Let me see if I can find it. For now it's time for me to head home. 15+ hours here is enough for me for today.
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:33 AM   #9
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ok. A few more before I go....

As many of you know (and some of you don't), before we release a part we have a few people who know what they are doing test them. These people are usually different, and are away from TiC for good reason. We don't want them to feel pressured to bias their review because they know us.

One of the things we ask is that they post an honest, no holds barred review. here's what we have so far:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroFS34 View Post
I was fortunate enough to be considered as a tester for the new TiC/MSI control arm bushings for the rear housing on the GD chassis.



I did an extensive writeup, including the results of the autocross I did last weekend, here : http://camarowrx.blogspot.com/2011/1...nceptsmsi.html

Cliff Notes : The install went smoothly except for a problem with a bolt on my car. The handling differences are hard to perceive on a near-full ESP-prep WRX (especially when steering rack bushings are one of those things), but handling is improved, with no increase in NVH.

Karen
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:36 AM   #10
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another one

Quote:
Originally Posted by pignoseSTI View Post
I was also lucky enough to test out these bushings and here's my review:

Parts + Install

The bushings themselves are very nice (as one would expect from TIC) They are extremely stiff, much stiffer than the stock rubber bushing and even the whiteline stx legal caster bushing that I previously used. Sorry I couldn't get a reading on the stock bushing as my durometer couldn't reach the material. The stock bushing has a fat metal center piece surrounded by a thin ring of rubber. The rubber feels about as stiff as the Whiteline bushing as I can put my fingernail in both. I can't do that with the TIC bushing at all.

Whiteline STX legal caster Bushing



TIC Bushing



Install is very straightforward. I've done the install a couple times so I did the install in about an hour. What took the longest for me was unearthing my press from the depths of my garage lol. Basically you just press out the old bushings and push these in. The 2 piece design makes it very easy to install. I pressed the TIC bushing and the tube in by hand. The bushings fit into the stock housing perfectly. The only thing I had a question about was whether or not I should leave the rubber covers from the stock bushings in when I installed it back onto the control arm. I ended up leaving them in (hope this was right) and everything seems like it's installed correctly.

Road Test

I should probably post my suspension setup so you all know what i'm working with.

JRZ RS Pros 800lb f/950lb r springs
Stock front swaybar/no rear swaybar
MSI trailing arms/TIC bushings
Group N lateral link bushings
Rear strut tower bar
Whiteline RCA
285/30/18 Yokohama AD08s for street and 285/30/18 Hoosier A6 for autox both on 18x10.5 wheels.

I know my review will be a bit different than others since I have a pretty stiff suspension, but my initial thoughts of the bushings are that they made my car ride a bit better. Not sure why this would be to be honest, but I was a little surprised by this. Maybe I was getting a little bounce from the stock rubber bushings (I noticed this change as well when I installed the MSI rear trailing arms with the TIC bushings) so these are allowing my shocks etc. to work better? Not sure but it's a welcomed change. Front feels more solid and connected to the road. NVH I noticed no change from the stock bushings, but to be honest I probably wouldn't notice much since I have quite a bit of NVH as it is. I have stiff motor/tranny mounts, loud exhaust, but all I really hear is my Bosch 044 LOL. All in all my initial verdict is good

So I finally had an opportunity to test the new front control arm rearward bushings at a local autocross. Basically what I felt on the road applies to the autox as well. Front definitely feels more solid (makes sense since these bushings are STIFF) , and turn in feels a bit improved. To me, it feels like the car will take a set a little faster than before. My co-driver concurred with my thoughts as well. I don't think I can quantify the improvement time-wise since the courses are always different, but I think these bushings are a decent improvement over stock. After all, stiffer bushings everywhere will actually make the suspension work better, or so i've been told and is also what i've noticed. These are one of the last bushings I had to replace, the only other ones would be the front control arm bushings (which I hope TIC will come out with). I'd say, short of a spherical bearing, these bushings are the best you can buy for this location to improve the feel of the car. I wouldn't hesitate to buy these TIC graphite impregnated bushings for all the bushings on the car (Oh wait I basically have haha). I can't wait to install the TIC lateral link bushings to replace my group n ones, I just wanted to install only these front control arm rearward bushings first so I could get a feel for the change of each part. Great job and thank you TIC! Now please make the frontward front control arm bushings
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:36 AM   #11
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one more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zefy View Post
Here is my review of the bushings. Overall, very happy with the product and would recommend to others.


Review of the MSI/TiC front control arm bushings

Initial Inspection



I have been looking at TiC and MSI parts for years now, building up this image of what their parts should be in terms of overall quality (fitment, performance, usability, and durability). I am happy to say that they did not disappoint.

After a quick visual inspection of the parts, there was no signs of burrs, edges, or imperfections visible. After scrutinizing the parts with a micrometer everything seemed consistent relative to the OEM bushings.

Installation

Full installation write up at the bottom of the post.

This is an easy to intermediate level install. Took roughly an hour to do and runs a low risk of failure (broken bolts, ect...). Just be mindful of what you're doing (cross threading those 19mm bolts) and you'll have no problems.

Car setup for reference

99 Impreza TS sedan

Front:

caster - 2.93*
Camber - -2.65*
toe - 0.0"

Rear:

Camber - -0.45*
toe - 0.0"

-sti struts, springs, top mounts with the front struts slotted for more camber
-whiteline 22mm front swaybar w/ stock endlinks
-perrin 22mm rear swaybar on weakest setting w/ perrin mounts and endlinks
-whiteline steering rack bushings
-GD sedan width control arms, lateral links, and axles
-2.5rs brakes with hawk HPS pads
-DD tire is dunlop all season on 16x7 5-spoke wheels
-Kumho v710 r-compound tires in 225/50/16 on 16x7 5-spoke wheels
-TiC/MSI front control arm bushings

First drive

First cruise around the block kind of surprised me. I actually didn't notice anything. Which is good, as it shows that they are relatively low change in NVH. I unfortunately had to remove my Com-C strut tops at the same time as the install as one was discovered to be broken. I replaced with stock sti mounts. With both of these changes, the car had reduced NVH compared to stock bushings with the Com-C's.

The only time it was noticeable, was when I hit abrupt bumps (pot holes, centerline markers, or rumble strips on the side of the highway). I actually didn't mind this as it gives a rather satisfying thump (not uncomfortable) increasing the feel of the car.

Spirited driving revealed the true improvements that these bushing make. Turn in is more instant and predictable. While cornering, imperfections in the road required less steering change to maintain the desired direction. Most notable was under braking. The car remained much more stable with less dive. This was less noticeable under acceleration but that is mostly due to the lackluster launches of the n/a motor.

At the AutoX

The event on sunday was very wet with lots of standing water so I opted to not use the r-compound tires. My car was very tail happy and my times were slow. Reviewing my car setup shows that I do not have enough rear camber and my limited tire choice for the weather was not ideal. This over-steering properties are not a result of the TiC/MSI bushings.

But the benefits of the bushings were still obvious. Better turn-in and braking were the two major improvements that I found. Being legal in the class that I am running in (DSP) makes these a very good option.

Conclusion

These bushing are a worthwhile improvement to the front suspension system. Increased steering response with turn in and better braking with only a slight increase in noticeable NVH.

Definitely a good option given the cost compared to an ALK while maintaining stock alignment (and therefor autoX legal) while maintaining streetability.

Installation guide

Installation is fairly straight forward. For a GC/GM/GF chassis you will need:

-22mm wrench
-19mm socket w/ rachet/breaker bar
-17mm socket and wrench (optional)
-White lithium grease
-Torque wrench
-Jack and stands
-Press

Optional method tools:

In the event of a broken press (mine) or a lack of a press all together, this method worked for me.

-drill or some other method for removing the rubber core
-die grinder/dremel with small deburring tool
-hammer and cold chisel

Procedure:

1. Jack up the front of your car. Be sure to loosen your wheel nuts if you don't have an impact gun. Also get it up high. It's easier if your tools are not colliding with the ground constantly.

2. Remove your wheels and locate the two 19mm bolts going through the bushing housing. Also locate the rear 22mm nut at the end of the control arm.

3. Using your 22mm wrench, loosen the large nut 22mm nut. You may need to double up your wrenches for more leverage or use some foot power. (keep in mind, foot power only works on the driver's side.)

Make sure you loosen that 22mm nut first. It's a pain if you take out the 19mm's first as the control arm will flop around on you. Not impossible, just irritating.



4. Loosen the 19mm nuts. These puppies can be tight. Long breaker bar or cheater bar is in order. After removed, slide off the bushing. If you're having issues with doing so, use your 17mm socket and wrench to loosen and PARTIALLY remove the forward control arm bolt. Just take it out half way so you can pivot the control arm down slightly. Removing it entirely just makes more work for you. Bushing should slide out no problem after that.

5a. Press out the old bushings. If you have a press, I'm assuming you know how to use it safely.

5b. If your press is broken, this method works. Keep in mind this method will ruin your stock bushings.

You first need to press out the center section of the bushing. You can either drill a bunch of holes in the rubber until it comes out, or you can use a ball joint press like it did. (note the ball joint press doesn't go big enough to actually remove the entire bushing. I tried...)





Then you will find that the stock bushing is made up of multiple components. There are two metal rings at either end of the bushing then the housing running the entire length. Use a die grinder with deburring tool or similar to remove the two rings, then the steel housing after.



Take special care to not go to deep as to gouge the aluminium housing. Take light passes along the entire length of the housing.



The steel sleeve will just slide right out with the tap of a hammer.

6. Assemble the new bushings being liberal with applying the white lithium grease or similar. I also cleaned my housings as their was rust and other contaminants from the stock bushings. Take note that you don't put the crush tube in backwards or anything.



7.Grease the Faces of the bushings before re installing into the car. Remember to keep the big flat washers.

8. Slide the bushing onto the control arm (clean the control arm first) and put the 19mm bolts in first. If you tighten the 22mm nut first, it could be awkward to line up the 19mm bolts. Anti-seize on all hardware would be beneficial.

9. Tighten the 19mm to 180 ft-lbs (i think...?) and tighten the 22mm as much as you can with the wrench. Don't forget to put the forward control arm bolt back in.

Put the wheels back on and lower the car down. ENJOY!
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:06 AM   #12
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funny, I was just taking a nap... errrrr working under my car reinstalling my down pipe and stuff, and as I was lying there I was looking at that exact item thinking to myself, "hmmm that thing looks like it due to be made more better." Looks like I have something else to add to the I need to fix my crappy suspension" parts list.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:38 PM   #13
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No love for the GR's ?
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Old 11-11-2011, 08:42 PM   #14
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No love for the GR's ?
nope. not on this one. quite frankly GR guys would best to just convert to the 11 arms with the bearing.
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Old 11-12-2011, 10:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts

nope. not on this one. quite frankly GR guys would best to just convert to the 11 arms with the bearing.
What about all the other issues that arise with the wider control arms on an 08-10 WRX?

I was hoping you guys would produce a better product then the few alternatives out there.
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:57 AM   #16
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They are working on it. Have you kept up on their announcements?
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Old 11-22-2011, 05:36 PM   #17
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Any chance that there will be a version that adds caster?
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenliu84 View Post
They are working on it. Have you kept up on their announcements?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
nope. not on this one. quite frankly GR guys would best to just convert to the 11 arms with the bearing.
The GR doesn't have anywhere near the same kind of mounting style for the rear. There are very few reliable rear bushings. Best thing to do is just get a set of 2011 control arms and bolts.
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:54 PM   #19
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...as in, they are working on developing products for the GR chassis as GD development comes to a close...like they've posted in their last "state of the company" announcement

and isn't that what TiC said?

Hey guys, there's a Group Buy going on!!!!
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