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Old 11-14-2011, 08:28 PM   #26
azn2nr
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That's it. I'm switching to nitro for race fuel and a 66 mm turbo. Q16 daily.

I'd like to see 110 sheets. Because in my searching I found 2 people from 2009 using it.
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:35 PM   #27
08WhiteRex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e85wrxvf43 View Post
i see youre still a noob when it comes to tuning and making power on different fuels.e85 has a lower octane but what about the cooling effect,lower egt etc?
E85 any day of the year over a Sunoco or even a VP 110. I've made similar and more power on E85 than C16 on multiple cars.'

IF YOU WANT PROVE I WILL SEND DYNO SHEETS e85 vs 110 and e85 vs c16, e85 made more power every single time.
E85 has less BTU's than an equivalent volume of 85 octane gasoline. You're barking up the wrong tree with the people you're picking on, as both individuals you keep calling idiots are very intelligent. And E85 will not make more power than 110 or Q16, it will make more torque.


EDIT: Jason,

Last edited by 08WhiteRex; 11-14-2011 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:56 AM   #28
e85wrxvf43
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ur an idiot, you wont make more power on rg 110? q16 is a better fuel i know, i was talkin about 110 and c16 and no , e85 will make more whp and trq, ****
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Old 11-15-2011, 01:06 AM   #29
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Everybody thinks that because race gas has a higher energy density than e85, this will create an HP reduction. This assumption does not take into account oxygenation and heat absorbtion


You will make more power on E85 than you can on 110/ 114, if you have adequate injectors.
The fastest subaru'sall running E85
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Old 11-15-2011, 01:27 AM   #30
907Bum
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Yup ^^ then there is the argument of e90 mixed with say c16 . Ethanol ISN"T gasoline, it's alcohol doesn't have the same burn/heat characteristics/det threshold/and cooling. The issue at hand is that commonly people say E85 is equal to around 104 octane gas, the problem is it really isn't. E Burns faster than gas under power afr's, produces more exhaust gas at the same afr's, and can allow for further advance before det is experienced under load (boost); all of this is mainly due to more "fuel" being injected into the cylinders and burning faster, something to be said for a 9.1:1 stoich .


Just a couple reasons why E>Gas.. just sayin . Only down side i see in utah is Availability.
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:12 AM   #31
08WhiteRex
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Now hold on, i'm not a tuner and not a thermodynamicist, but i pretend like i know what happens in an internal combustion engine. But i do know oil, and i know that a higher octane gasoline burns slower than a lower octane gasoline. Matter of fact, the reason why you can advance timing is because of how slowly the high octane fuel burns. To say that because Ethanol burns faster than gasoline simply means that you have to significantly retard timing in order to not knock lol. The burn characteristic does not change the fact that complete combustion would still have been achieved before TDC, resulting in premature detonation and not only loss of power but damage to the piston. I don't know if that was a slip, but it's not right. Again, i'm not a fuel researcher or a Chem. E, but i would guess that saying that it is equivalent to 105 means that it has a similar combustion rate and knock resistance to 105 octane gasoline.
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:20 AM   #32
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i think the underlying idea is that ethanol is not gasoline, and thus does not behave the same way. if it acts like 105 octane as far as knock is concerned, then there is still the added benefit of cooling the air it evaporates in, plus the greater amount of fuel you are putting in, plus that fuel has oxygen in it already, etc..., put some rubbing alcohol on one hand and water on the other and wave em around in the air.

i think the main thing is they are very different fuels so the rules for one don't apply necessarily to the other, and the efficiency rules for one are not the same as the other.

and isn't knock a function of unstable, multiple flame-front combustion creating shock-waves in the cylinder and not about the speed of combustion? i'm probably less learned that you but i always thought that octane was a rating of how hard the fuel was to set off, so when all the other crap is going on with high compression and heat and etc that the spark plug is the only thing with enough energy to light to cycle, and that burning slower was more like a side-effect of making the fuel "hardier" but the hell do i know lol.
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:34 AM   #33
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Also the alcohol in E85 has a HUGE cooling property associated with it as well. E85 has a lot of the cooling properties that you also find with Water Meth.

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/f...esults-165771/

http://forums.evolutionm.net/alterna...85-vs-c16.html

read em !
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:03 AM   #34
08WhiteRex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxkyle View Post

and isn't knock a function of unstable, multiple flame-front combustion creating shock-waves in the cylinder and not about the speed of combustion? i'm probably less learned that you but i always thought that octane was a rating of how hard the fuel was to set off
That is correct, Octane Rating represents the ability to resist ignition due to temperature (which in an internal combustion engine is caused by compression). But an intrinsic property tied to ignition resistance is combustion rate, in the case of gasoline. If an air fuel mixture has fully combusted before the piston reaches top dead center, then you are compressing the gas after it has fully expanded, which will do cylinder damage.

And I know ethanol burns cooler than gasoline. That's a large reason i run it. But saying it runs cooler does not explain away how it burns faster yet can take more timing. What about it makes that happen?
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:34 AM   #35
907Bum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08WhiteRex View Post
And I know ethanol burns cooler than gasoline. That's a large reason i run it. But saying it runs cooler does not explain away how it burns faster yet can take more timing. What about it makes that happen?

Simpler than you would think, there is simply more fuel in the combustion chamber when ignition is made, the burning faster really helps running more timing because you have to run more "gas" on e to get the same "burn". More gas=more cooling, faster burn = gas gets out quicker and aids in the anti-det/cooling process. Simply put your running more fuel in and out of the cylinder in a much more efficient manner. Cooler egt's, more exhaust to spool the turbo etc.

Again it all comes down to the 9.1:1 vs 11.0:1 ratios
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:18 PM   #36
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wow, this has gone from e85 pump out to who is the biggest D bag. e85wrxf43 you win!

I don't have to sell you why I am smarter than you you ust keep talking it proves it on its own.

Jesse you are correct, There are lots of things in fuel that will work better than either gas or e85. I wish we had a e100 so I could drink it and fuel my car. Personally diesel would be my choice. FTW.

soooo, my 15 gallons at home are sounding better and better. The pump is still down I saw today as I drove by....
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:26 PM   #37
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I cant believe its been almost 3 weeks now! I have been persistantly harrasing both christiensen and chevron daily to no avail. I have a hard time believing that they have no idea whats going on.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:32 PM   #38
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i have a full tank in the evo and 10 gallons in the garage.. could sell that to you
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Old 11-15-2011, 01:14 PM   #39
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right BrEndEn, I knew it was a good idea to keep on hand. Maybe I will make a trip to idaho and bring back some in a couple 55gal drums. The price is $5.00 a gallon.... any takers?
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:17 PM   #40
RicersWetDream
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I can ship you all some E if you need it.... Closest station to me is less than a mile from my house.

Shipping will be tough though, I only have a few coffee cans and a roll of duct tape.
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:53 PM   #41
zoomswimmer
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I've got a 55 gallon drum of E98 down at the shop that I could sell to you. PM if you're interested.
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Old 11-16-2011, 03:38 AM   #42
08WhiteRex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 907Bum View Post
Simpler than you would think, there is simply more fuel in the combustion chamber when ignition is made, the burning faster really helps running more timing because you have to run more "gas" on e to get the same "burn". More gas=more cooling, faster burn = gas gets out quicker and aids in the anti-det/cooling process. Simply put your running more fuel in and out of the cylinder in a much more efficient manner. Cooler egt's, more exhaust to spool the turbo etc.

Again it all comes down to the 9.1:1 vs 11.0:1 ratios
Got it. Comes down to stoich. Done.

Also, if i'm not mistaken stoichiometric combustion for gasoline is 14.7:1
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Old 11-16-2011, 04:19 AM   #43
907Bum
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Yeah lol, just saw i miss typed that .
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:14 PM   #44
r8r4life
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55 gal drum FTW Bitches.Last's almost all summer.Ha Ha.
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:29 PM   #45
medamullet
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les you live! 55 gal lasting all summer? LOL that's a long weekend for me....
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:53 PM   #46
r8r4life
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Too bad it's only e-70 all year.Well when you let your car sit more than you drive you have the pleasure of only using 55 gals a year.
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Old 11-16-2011, 06:25 PM   #47
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I just recieved an Email from Christiensen. They will have their shipment in Tommorow.
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:07 AM   #48
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need gas today? Hit me up I will fill your tank for $100.00 includes 3 gas cans so you can fill them up to keep on hand for then next time this happens in 3 months
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:44 PM   #49
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Anyone else running extremely rich on this latest batch?
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:00 PM   #50
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yep. had a customer come into work with the same issue.
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