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Old 11-21-2011, 01:30 PM   #101
WarmAndSCSI
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I informed clearfield on friday evening. just goes to show they don give a ****
So I went 70 miles round trip out of my way to pay $3.65 a gallon for 91 octane when Chevron 91 octane is about $3.42 in my neck of the woods. F-ing ridiculous. I could understand if they weren't aware of the issue at that point, but they were. Infuriating.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:32 PM   #102
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Call them and let em know.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:22 PM   #103
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why would anyone who works at the actual gas station give a **** at all? they work for low pay and have nothing to do with ordering or quality of the fuel. the just sell the ****.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:29 PM   #104
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By that logic I guess we can assume the 15 gal you are trying to sell could be 91 Oct. Afterall, you just sell the ****.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:45 PM   #105
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i think he's saying that calling the station attendant won't do any good. christensen oil is who needs to be held accountable for this. i just hope they clean out all the gas they put in the e-85 tank. if not it's going to be even more diluted than usual for a long time.
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:01 PM   #106
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Ya, I know what he meant. I was just messing with him. I did talk to a manager who at least seemed to care.
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:56 PM   #107
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This is ridiculous!

I decided to convert my Evo to use E85 over the weekend and spent over $150 on mislabeled E85. I first discovered the issue after filling up from the Orem station (see my thread on UtahPACE here: http://www.utahpace.com/forums/showt...hristensen-Oil) and then went and burned that entire tank of gas on a long drive ending in Clearfield where I filled up at JP's Chevron. I knew I should have stopped when I didn't smell any ethanol on the fuel, but I filled my tank up along with 2 5 gallon cans anyway...

I'm livid. Apparently the EPA are the ones who mandate at LEAST 70% ethanol content and I have heard mention of somebody considering getting them involved in another out-of-state bad E85 incident. I would assume selling gasoline specifically as E85 would carry a pretty hefty fine. The only thing keeping me from wanting to tear Christensen Oil a new one is the fact that they put 91 octane in the E85 tanks instead of 85 or 87 or whatever "regular" is here. Regardless, I hope I haven't experienced any engine damage as a fairly aggressive tune went on along with the first fill up of E85.

If you are serious about making a legal fuss over this incident, I would go straight to the EPA. But definitely don't mention you don't drive an actual FlexFuel vehicle since that is technically illegal

It's not illegal to use e-85 if you do not have a flex fuel vehicle.You can buy kits to convert your car to it as long as it is fuel injected.


I have a feeling it will not be around too much longer from christiensen.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:05 PM   #108
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After receiving word from Holly Refinery that the batch was indeed 9-!0% ethanol, I decided to just drove down to Provo and speak with the owner. Apparently when they were mixing the batch, something obviously wasn't done properly. Which he was surprised about, because his driver that typically does it has been mixing it for a while. The owner went out to Orem on Saturday to post a sign, which shows he at least made an attempt after being notified. Not sure what you guys would like to do about this, but you take legal action or anything beyond speaking to him, and there's a good possibility we won't have e85 in the valley. My suggestion, get an ethanol tester, 13$ online. You add water and then an ethanol sample. There's a Sinclair station in Provo that still has proper e85 in the tank. I tested it with water prior to pumping. He also mentioned that the Orem location would get a new tank on Wednesday. Whether that means Ethanol will be added to the existing regular 91, no clue. I suggest you guys drive down there and talk with him, he's a reasonable dude.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:08 PM   #109
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and in regards to Clearfield, didn't really speak to him about that location. They are completely unassociated to Christensen, they simply by it off the them. But its a family owned business, which you would think after being notified of this, that they would take some action.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:58 PM   #110
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By that logic I guess we can assume the 15 gal you are trying to sell could be 91 Oct. Afterall, you just sell the ****.

My stuff is from about 3 months ago. It's good. I was saying you can't call and yell at the station attendant he doesn't know anything except were the smokes and beer are.
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:30 PM   #111
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I know, I was just busting your chops
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:51 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Derk Deez View Post
After receiving word from Holly Refinery that the batch was indeed 9-!0% ethanol, I decided to just drove down to Provo and speak with the owner. Apparently when they were mixing the batch, something obviously wasn't done properly. Which he was surprised about, because his driver that typically does it has been mixing it for a while. The owner went out to Orem on Saturday to post a sign, which shows he at least made an attempt after being notified. Not sure what you guys would like to do about this, but you take legal action or anything beyond speaking to him, and there's a good possibility we won't have e85 in the valley. My suggestion, get an ethanol tester, 13$ online. You add water and then an ethanol sample. There's a Sinclair station in Provo that still has proper e85 in the tank. I tested it with water prior to pumping. He also mentioned that the Orem location would get a new tank on Wednesday. Whether that means Ethanol will be added to the existing regular 91, no clue. I suggest you guys drive down there and talk with him, he's a reasonable dude.
What I'm unclear on is when the Orem location was made aware of this issue. I filled up there on Friday, and from how it sounds, they already knew of this slightly before then.

Looks like I'll give another shot at my conversion effort this Friday
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:21 PM   #113
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I called them in the morning to notify them. I spoke to two secretaries before they realized that I was serious. Finally spoke with the supervisor in the later part of the afternoon, 2 or so. From talking with the owner, face to face, he definitely felt bad about what happened.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:45 AM   #114
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get gephart or ksl special investigations
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:12 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Derk Deez View Post
I called them in the morning to notify them. I spoke to two secretaries before they realized that I was serious. Finally spoke with the supervisor in the later part of the afternoon, 2 or so. From talking with the owner, face to face, he definitely felt bad about what happened.

Other than feeling bad, did he offer anything to make up for the bad gas?

I think I got lucky that I had a half tank of E when I filled up with whatever they were selling in Orem on Friday afternoon.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:06 PM   #116
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get gephart or ksl special investigations
This...
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:25 PM   #117
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This...
I thought of the same thing... KSL... but I also don't want to lose E85 in Utah.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:05 PM   #118
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think positive. maybe a business owner will see the report and see an opertunity to get into an untapped market here in the valley and do something about it.

just look at the unknown coatings situation. he feels like he has the market cornered because hes the only game in town so he feels like he can treat everyone like ****. in a month 2 more people buy stuff to start coating.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:15 PM   #119
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Good luck with KSL. The BBB and standards and measurements still haven't hit me back. You'd think they would be interested, guess not. I ordered an ethanol test kit, thing is way convenient for testing. Looks as though we aren't even getting the 73 percent they were advertising. Here's a link to the tester: http://e85tester.com/
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Old 11-23-2011, 08:07 AM   #120
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Ksl will glady do a smear story on anyone/any business that isnt tied to the church in some way. Just my opinion.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:25 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Derk Deez View Post
Good luck with KSL. The BBB and standards and measurements still haven't hit me back. You'd think they would be interested, guess not. I ordered an ethanol test kit, thing is way convenient for testing. Looks as though we aren't even getting the 73 percent they were advertising. Here's a link to the tester: http://e85tester.com/

Quoted from e85tester.com: "E85 means a fuel blend that it 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. But, the E85 brand label does not mean the fuel in the pump is necessarily 85 percent ethanol. In some cases, during most of the year, E85 pumps sell fuel that is really E70

There are three volatility classes for ethanol (designated 1, 2, and 3). Class 1 is summertime E85, and needs to have a minimum of 79 percent ethanol (so even E85 doesn't have to be E85). Class 2's ethanol minimum is 74. And Class 3, wintertime ethanol, is 70 percent. In some parts of the country, Wyoming, for example, Class 3 is sold from October through May and Class 1 is sold only in July and August....."

Looks like we're getting the typical winter blend. Nothing wrong or out of sorts with that.

Now, am I fine with cans sitting on my garage floor and it's not temp controlled or do I need to store elsewhere?
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:49 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by docNUCCA View Post
Quoted from e85tester.com: "E85 means a fuel blend that it 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. But, the E85 brand label does not mean the fuel in the pump is necessarily 85 percent ethanol. In some cases, during most of the year, E85 pumps sell fuel that is really E70

There are three volatility classes for ethanol (designated 1, 2, and 3). Class 1 is summertime E85, and needs to have a minimum of 79 percent ethanol (so even E85 doesn't have to be E85). Class 2's ethanol minimum is 74. And Class 3, wintertime ethanol, is 70 percent. In some parts of the country, Wyoming, for example, Class 3 is sold from October through May and Class 1 is sold only in July and August....."

Looks like we're getting the typical winter blend. Nothing wrong or out of sorts with that.
Most of us know this.

Here are the volatility ratings for Utah:

Code:
Jan    Feb    Mar    April    May    June    July    Aug    Sept    Oct    Nov    Dec
3      3      3      3/2      2      2/1     1       1      1/2     2/3    3      3
70%    70%    70%    70-74%   74%    74-79%  79%     79%    74-79%  70-74% 70%    70%

Last edited by WarmAndSCSI; 11-23-2011 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:07 PM   #123
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Nov-Dec 0%-10%
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:05 PM   #124
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Lol. In no way does 10%=70%
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Old 11-24-2011, 10:57 AM   #125
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You guys need a e85 tester. I tested the supposed e85 in Provo, 60%. Everyone should know by now the blends of the year. Christensen isn't doing this stuff on purpose, the first incident was an employee related slip, this is just lack of knowledge that we run this fuel expecting it to be at certain concentrations. If you do your research, this is happening all over the country, people source straight ethanol to curve the deviation from the 73%. Our 73% isn't really a winter blend, it's due to the altitude. Therefore, the stats that were mentioned before really don't apply to our community. Instead of promoting others to get involved, ksl and whoever, figure out a way where both parties are happy. Todd, the owner, is willing to listen and make changes, and since the incident didn't blow my new short block, I'm willing to be patient. He said that the Orem pump would be rectified yesterday, by adding the corrected ethanol concentration to the existing pump levels and then adding their mix to fill up the tank.
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