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Old 08-10-2013, 10:58 PM   #801
manitou
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I should have those 1/2" studs this week. They had to drop ship from ARP, they're saying the 14th, I think they will work just fine! Yeah talk to Paul and see about the closed deck and o-ring option he has as well as explore Outfront but you kind of know those costs.

I'm still not sure what we're going to do with mine, exploring o-ringing but we'll see! I'm definitely not closing the deck on this motor although I wish I had done that from the beginning like I did with that Cosworth motor that I sold! If I could do it and not distort the bores, just a light hone and re-ring the motor, I might consider it!
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:09 PM   #802
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Yeah that is a bummer to are committed to those pistons for your application. I'll he curious to hear what Angel has to say about those. Id consider being a guinea pig for them that's for sure. Under $100 for head studs and locally available . Why didn't someone think about that before?? Thanks Juan!!
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:44 AM   #803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layvon View Post
Yeah that is a bummer to are committed to those pistons for your application. I'll he curious to hear what Angel has to say about those. Id consider being a guinea pig for them that's for sure. Under $100 for head studs and locally available . Why didn't someone think about that before?? Thanks Juan!!
Its not really a bummer, the motor is great, revs well, runs really smoothly and as Junior mentioned after tuning it 3 times, it makes a nice progressive power curve with the long rods/ pistons. The motor doesn't peak torque wise until almost 6k very broad with good early torque as well.

I can always have custom LR pistons made to fit a bigger bore by JE for MPS. If I want to go with a closed deck and 99.75 bore if that's what it ends up being.

I was speaking with John Rykowski who owns Outfront MS and we were discussing the closed deck inserts. His new guy/ machine shop machines the insert a bit tighter than their version 1 & 2 so it distorts the bore +/-2mm which is why most go with OTS 99.75mm pistons. I think Jeff/ Crystal is using new Manly's that are 99.55mm and they were able to hone to that size. Anyway John was telling me that he's been discussing with his machinist about doing slightly looser fitting inserts so as not to distort the bore which would allow the use of stock size 99.5mm pistons.

I just can't use ots pistons with my long rods unless I go with a 75mm crank.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:35 PM   #804
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Motor is out. Parts are scattered and lab led and thankfully everything looks good.

Going to get winter build opinions at P&L Monday.

On the docket for discussion
Closing the Deck
Orings
Big-boy studs ( as a salesman and business owner I'm guessing the 13mm P&L's will be suggested, which I'm cool with)
My case or new
My crank or new
My rods or new ( Turbo tuff )

Hoping to use the case to save some pennies, but might will leave it up to him. My pistons are fine, however I was surprised by how easy it was to keep E85 in the car So I'm bumping compression to something at Paul's recommendation.

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Old 08-16-2013, 06:16 AM   #805
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Financially it is a long way off.. but what do you guys think for 6266 decision.

Keep in mind this is twin scroll...

.84 A/R ( Which should be bigger than the 6262 .84 AR which I currently have.. I think )
1.0 A/R
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:43 PM   #806
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No love??
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:48 PM   #807
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Go 6266.......but you know what I thought!
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:19 PM   #808
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Lol well I am going 6266... what hot side though.

.84 ( which would be flow more than my current .84 6262 I'm pretty sure )

OR

1.0

Leaning towards .84.
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:36 PM   #809
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.84!!! Ftw
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:47 PM   #810
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1.0, you're not using avcs, anyway. She should be a highway high rpm thriller with the 1.0!
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:59 PM   #811
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Ask Junior why you shouldn't use a 6466 over a 6266.

When he explains there is nothing to lose by going to the 6466, you'll buy that one instead I hope.
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:33 PM   #812
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I did not directly ask that question so I just asked him to glance here when he has a chance.

I'm not made of money so it will have to have some pretty good benefits because I have a really good lead on lightly used 6266... and PTE keeps bumping up the price on turbos
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:11 AM   #813
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Yeah the 6466 is kind of pricey. The 6266 should be able to make close to 800whp with some boost. I would get the smaller housing to have a broader power band.
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:03 AM   #814
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Yeah and hell 700 is more than enough power. 800 you're just making it to brag and break peoples hearts on hwy Lol.

I know with the motor I'm getting built for me it isn't going to last forever but a summer or two would be nice. I think 800 is gonna be a lot to not have to tear down often.

Last edited by Layvon; 08-28-2013 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:56 AM   #815
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This is just me and I'm not one to follow 'what everyone else is doing on the forums' just because that's 'what everyone else is doing on the forums'. I prefer to talk to shops, manufacturers, tuners, the track guys that are rebuilding engines every 40 hours, and make my decision from there (given the use of the car) with a dash of my own engineering logic to make my decisions.

If this engine is going to be torn down after every season, I'd go sleeves and o-rings. Otherwise you're buying a new block every other (possibly every) rebuild because the stock sleeves to not wear nearly as well as ductile iron. Now will they hold nearly as much pressure before getting wonky (even with some support on top). With sleeves the job is rings, hone, bearings and back together (assuming it was built well and nothing has blown up, which is a generic risk at these levels anyway).



I like the new ARP studs, 625 I think. They no stretch, and I've not heard one report of problems (if anyone knows of any please fill me in).



If you've got turbo tuff rods, those are probably good at those power levels.

Crank, I'd say worked-over OEM or billet.

So there ya go
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:33 AM   #816
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I appreciate the insight! I'm gonna reread that a couple times to fully digest it.

I do want to mention I had the turbo tuffs and they seemingly worked out great at 605hp. Paul at P&L said he'd prefer i start out with the rods he's comfortable using (Pauter) and go from there. I had a sit down face to face meeting with him and Jr a week ago.

I don't have the means to make measurements or engineered decisions due to the fact I work out of my truck all over Mich Indiana and Ohio, so I wanted to put my trust in a shop to do that for me. I have no doubt in the world it will hold up to the power its just how long. Maybe sleeves are the right way to go... I'm not saying they are or arent, I just don't know what's best for my application.
I have heard good things about the 625s too but again going with what a paul is comfortable with
I don't know if I've posted it or not yet but the specs if I asked Paul to build the motor today it'd be:

P&L closed deck (includes orings)
P&L built
13mm studs
10:1 CP
Pauter Rods
Stock crank
P&L special Blend Kelford AVCS delete
6266 turbo.

If down the road I chose to sleeve it'd be a Benson sleeve and probably MPS built.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:15 AM   #817
manitou
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I spoke with Paul about his closed deck program also when I was there in late July. They are doing the machining in house and making the block guard inserts very thick (deep), he felt as deep as they can go with the case! So the business end of the cylinders should be very strong! PnL builds great motors, not cheap but what is and they have a few cars out there that literally rev to 10K on the stock crank with Pauter's rods and CP pistons! That is a testament to how well they're built and balanced. Their closed deck program is relatively new but if they are strong as they look to be, then I would think that you could get a couple rebuild/ bore/ hone's out of the case before you would have to scrap it or go to sleeves!

You may be able to get more rebuilds out of a sleeved motor but who knows, maybe not. I kind of like the idea of keeping the case together as Subaru cast it except with it all boxed in, closing the deck and o-ringing it.

The other thing is the PnL 13mm studs address the thread pulling issue by giving the studs a bigger bite into the aluminum case which has to be a plus!

JMHO
Allan
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:24 AM   #818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
Yeah the 6466 is kind of pricey. The 6266 should be able to make close to 800whp with some boost. I would get the smaller housing to have a broader power band.
I'm with Juan here! I know you told me that this is a fun street car and not a dedicated race car so based on that, that is why I said to go to the smaller hotside. I mean you won't have any AVCS so you loose a little bit of spool but you'll get it back and then some with the high CR!
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Old 09-14-2013, 11:30 PM   #819
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Well - its been a while since I've done some real updates, not just theory or " i think I'm gonna do"

In the last 2-3 weeks, the following has been done

ABS deleted - Retained lines for future use if I decided to start circuit track racing.
Brake Booster Deleted - Yes I know pedal is going to be harder. Will be drilling a new hole in the brake arm about 3/4" higher to increase pedal ratio into the high sixes / low sevens. I will be going to a Wilwood MC to keep things simple. going to the auto parts store to begin running the lines. Should be pretty dang easy really.

Also going to get a new line to replace this: I guessed wrong on a length lol.


I have also removed the PS tank, battery bracket, wiper motor and the fuse box. I am doing a little tuck action, its not as bad as I thought, but I am waiting on a spare motor so I can mount everything up and then make my harness fit that. Rather than guessing.






Finally - I bought a set of lightweight brakes to help free up some rotating / static mass. I haven't seen them yet. Just sent payment today, but I'm guessing it will free up appx 30 pounds.
http://www.streettunedmotorsports.co...ubaru_rear.htm
http://www.streettunedmotorsports.co...baru_front.htm

I'm hoping to be under 3000 with full interior and enough fuel to make a pass at the track, no driver. ( 3250 race weight with me, helmet, computer, fire extinguisher etc )

Last edited by Layvon; 09-14-2013 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:55 AM   #820
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When's the cage going on?
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:04 AM   #821
manitou
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Dudes getting serious!
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:18 AM   #822
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Starting to question how little this build reminds me of a fun street car, and how much it reminds of a track monster.

Screw it, rip the interior out and cage it. Then show up to mid-Ohio on one of their Corvette club days just for kicks. Cheers.
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:54 AM   #823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
When's the cage going on?
Haha... probably should start thinking about that... then I could put my CF doors in too lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
Dudes getting serious!
Allan - D Money has been an inspiration. I don't think it will be as intense as his but definitely going to be cleaner along the sides of motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbiexWhite View Post
Starting to question how little this build reminds me of a fun street car, and how much it reminds of a track monster.

Screw it, rip the interior out and cage it. Then show up to mid-Ohio on one of their Corvette club days just for kicks. Cheers.
I'm not good enough driver to have this car be called a track monster
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:20 AM   #824
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Cages are for serial killers! Jk, safety is important, but I love street cars. Those brakes are sick, L!

Quote:
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Dudes getting serious!
Yep!

Levon, you are building an awesome car; patiently built and well researched. *tips hat*
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:54 AM   #825
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Thanks Carmi, appreciate it.

The only reason I'm looking forward to a cage is I've had 6 point harnesses for a year and a half, and its a big no no to use those without a cage. Rollover incident = broken neck. That and those CF Doors I picked up
That and I have an OMP CF seat I've been waiting to put in also

Bench bleeding and Clutch Line Redo... Much better.


Last edited by Layvon; 09-15-2013 at 11:11 AM.
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