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Old 11-18-2011, 09:36 AM   #1
WMCCook29
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Default 18G-XTR Dyno

I haven't seen any results with Blouch's new 18G-XTR and came across these results yesterday:

http://efilogics.com/dyno/graph.php?...rgb1=000000255

I've been thinking about going with this turbo when I build a 2.1L and can't wait to see how this turbo performs on other set-ups.
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:48 AM   #2
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That makes boost super late for such low numbers on a 2.5 WITH AVCS...
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:03 AM   #3
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Looking at EFI's dyno database, this set-up makes a little less power with a little slower spool than a 68HTA, but it does look to hold boost a little better at higher rpms. Definitely need to see more results before drawing any conclusions about this turbo.

edit: Also, the numbers aren't that low for EFI's dyno...an 05 LGT with a 20G-XT tuned to 19-20 psi only made 334whp.

Last edited by WMCCook29; 11-18-2011 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:44 AM   #4
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in wrong forum..
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WMCCook29 View Post
edit: Also, the numbers aren't that low for EFI's dyno...an 05 LGT with a 20G-XT tuned to 19-20 psi only made 334whp.
That was a really conservative 91 octane tune for a fresh motor.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSCobra View Post
That was a really conservative 91 octane tune for a fresh motor.
This is a great point! There really aren't enough details provided in the graphs to accurately assess the turbos true capabilities. I was just excited to see some of the first results with the 18G-XTR.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:14 PM   #7
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i should have some results by the end of the winter after i get mine dyno tuned. going with the 18g-xtr
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:45 PM   #8
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20g spool with 16g power. Hopefully additional results aren't similar.
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Old 11-20-2011, 12:23 AM   #9
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EFI logics dyno is always coming across with sort of low numbers

i dunno what correction factor their dyno runs on??
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:50 PM   #10
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i just looked at that graph and cringed....why such late spool for a td05?
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:51 PM   #11
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looking for updates on this turbo, 20g spool with 16g power. Hopefully additional results aren't similar.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07VTRex View Post
i just looked at that graph and cringed....why such late spool for a td05?
I don't see anything on Blouch's web site about this turbo being a TD05.

http://www.bptstore.com/Subaru-WRXST...er-_p_126.html
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:17 PM   #13
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I wouldn't pass judgement on that turbo from that graph. The component list at the bottom has a bunch of crap that doesn't help the spool or power. For example, ported factory headers hurt spool and should never be used. In my opinion it is just a gimmick that people fall for because they only have a few hundred bucks to spend on their next upgrade and don't have the patience to save another month or so to get a real header.

The regular 18G-XT is an awesome turbo. The 20G-XT is even better. I can't imagine that adding a ball bearing cartridge to an already awesome compressor wheel would hurt the performance much.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
I wouldn't pass judgement on that turbo from that graph. The component list at the bottom has a bunch of crap that doesn't help the spool or power. For example, ported factory headers hurt spool and should never be used. In my opinion it is just a gimmick that people fall for because they only have a few hundred bucks to spend on their next upgrade and don't have the patience to save another month or so to get a real header.

The regular 18G-XT is an awesome turbo. The 20G-XT is even better. I can't imagine that adding a ball bearing cartridge to an already awesome compressor wheel would hurt the performance much.
so your saying that the crosspipe and port manifold is worst than complete stock headers?
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RL-N-AH View Post
so your saying that the crosspipe and port manifold is worst than complete stock headers?
yup. you got it, because it is.

It is an extremely ignorant belief that Subaru can not develop a header for a car that has good flow characteristics. Port/gasket matching the manifold is BAD. The steps are put there on purpose. Do people really think Subaru couldn't cast a header where the flanges are closer to the header diameter? yes, some people do and it's ridiculous. There are tons of cast parts on the car that are made to exacting tolerances and the manifold is as well.

The reason:
The firing order of the boxer 4 (1-3-2-4) and the way they have one bank of cylinders come together before meeting up with the other side requires the exhaust to be tuned more like 4 single cylinder engines. This requires large steps at certain points to make a pressure wave reflect back off the closed exhaust valve and then back out to the pipe. This gives you a low pressure at the exhaust valve when it opens providing you with some cylinder scavenging. Eliminating the large steps in the header (that you may notice always go from small to big starting at the head) eliminates the pressure wave and kills the effect. You now get more pressure at the exhaust valve when it opens and you pollute the engine with exhaust gas, extra chamber heat and a poor cylinder charge.
A properly designed header will have a merge collector where all four cylinders come together at the same point to allow the cylinder to actually be in time. OR, it will have the front and rear cylinders go to the same point because they are in time with each other.

Can you make more power with a ported header? It's possible if the header has become a choke point and removing material has only increased the peak flow capacity of the header.
Will you lose spool? Almost every time.
Will it affect gas mileage? Negatively every time
Is it worth it? No, not really. Get a real header that helps scavenging, spool and power.

On a 2.5L, any aftermarket header that isn't a complete piece of crap will give faster spool, more power and better mileage. For example, on my RS with a 35R I went from the GS header/x pipe combo to an unequal length header and picked up 40whp at the same boost and spooled over 250 rpm faster. This is typical to gain about 10% power and faster spool by ditching the factory ported header. From bone stock OEM header to aftermarket it's about 8% with better spool.

the proper way to port a factory header would be to only open the inlet sides of all the pipes without trumpeting them. Then open the outlet portion the same amount to maintain a step and still increase overall cross section. This provides you with less flow restriction and maintains the principals that the header was designed around. The thing is that you have to port the WHOLE runner, not just the inch or two around the gasket. To know how much you can get away with will have to be calculated/tested and there are programs to help with that.

Last edited by Maxwell Power; 12-19-2011 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:24 PM   #16
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^So is this BS? GS I want my money back.

This unit is built from 1.92" 304 Stainless Steel tubing, maximizing exhaust flow from cylinders 1 and 4 to the manifold collector for faster turbo response.

Customers have seen up to 15 HP INCREASE when combined with our PnP Subaru Exhaust Manifold. The pipe by itself should net around 5-8 HP INCREASE.

Add on our amazing Ceramic Heat Coating for a VERY SMALL fee to help keep the heat in and speed up those exhaust gasses even more.


Boost transition is improved over stock
Helps airflow in the mid to high rpm range.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:28 PM   #17
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While i totally trust MPS's word based purely on nothing but what i've read about them, I just hope they're ready for the turd storm they may have just started.

I do agree though. A well thought out header is the best way to go because, "60% of the time, they work EVERY time..."
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:35 PM   #18
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I love the guys at GS. So don't start making this MPS vs GS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 GTFO Lesbic WGN View Post
^So is this BS? GS I want my money back.

This unit is built from 1.92" 304 Stainless Steel tubing, maximizing exhaust flow from cylinders 1 and 4 to the manifold collector for faster turbo response.

Customers have seen up to 15 HP INCREASE when combined with our PnP Subaru Exhaust Manifold. The pipe by itself should net around 5-8 HP INCREASE.

Add on our amazing Ceramic Heat Coating for a VERY SMALL fee to help keep the heat in and speed up those exhaust gasses even more.


Boost transition is improved over stock
Helps airflow in the mid to high rpm range.
When they first offered the product they stated that there was only a feeling of improvement and they never offered any hp gains. Adding the approx hp gains has been added relatively recently (year or so). But please, read this part again below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
Can you make more power with a ported header? It's possible if the header has become a choke point and removing material has only increased the peak flow capacity of the header.
Will you lose spool? Almost every time.
Will it affect gas mileage? Negatively every time
Is it worth it? No, not really. Get a real header that helps scavenging, spool and power.
My best estimation is that the header was indeed a choke point for those that gained power.
There is also the possibility that other changes were made that were discounted and the header was believed to be the source of gains.

And lastly, I could be wrong. However, multiple programs and exhaust system engineers will tell you that I'm not.
I have had multiple customers with ported headers and turbos make 10-15 LESS whp than comparable cars without the porting. However, again in those cases I was comparing car to car and not the same car with different mods.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxhard View Post
While i totally trust MPS's word based purely on nothing but what i've read about them, I just hope they're ready for the turd storm they may have just started.

I do agree though. A well thought out header is the best way to go because, "60% of the time, they work EVERY time..."

Only the reactions of the irrational will turn this into a turd storm.

I get a lot of flack on this board when I post up facts that deter from what the common mis-conception is. I get called all sorts of names and get threatened by a lot of people for mearly providing information like I did in the above post. Those are usually the people who have purchased one of those items and get pissed off when they hear it may not have been a good purchase. I become the target for providing the cold hard truth. I'm only trying to help and educate people, but I'm frequently demonized for it.

So if it does turn into a **** storm, I'm pretty used to it.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:58 PM   #20
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thx MP, I applaud you for that, I will do a comparison with Virtual Dyno and report back. Comparo will be off a stage 2 OTS map, will be a back to back comparison OEM stock vs OEM PnP+Xpipe.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:13 PM   #21
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Dom....I am sure it is hard for a bunch of people to read that info about a PnP header. What are your thoughts about leaving the header alone and just using a different up pipe and cross over pipe? In this case the GS versions....
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
And lastly, I could be wrong. However, multiple programs and exhaust system engineers will tell you that I'm not.
I have had multiple customers with ported headers and turbos make 10-15 LESS whp than comparable cars without the porting. However, again in those cases I was comparing car to car and not the same car with different mods.
I would whole heartedly agree with you. i went from stage 1 ots tune to a stage 2 fully ported polished manifold/crosspipe and a de-catted up-pipe. It actually seemed to spool slower than stage 1 did. No idea why. Finally got a 4-1 el header (and it was a cheap one too!!) and the spool increased drastically, without a tune too.

On a side note, what do you think about ported turbine housings?
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:26 PM   #23
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Will post results with this turbo sometime early 2012. Going with the 18g xtr for my stock internal 2.0 with a big tmic and other supporting mods.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:54 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
Only the reactions of the irrational will turn this into a turd storm.

I get a lot of flack on this board when I post up facts that deter from what the common mis-conception is. I get called all sorts of names and get threatened by a lot of people for mearly providing information like I did in the above post. Those are usually the people who have purchased one of those items and get pissed off when they hear it may not have been a good purchase. I become the target for providing the cold hard truth. I'm only trying to help and educate people, but I'm frequently demonized for it.

So if it does turn into a **** storm, I'm pretty used to it.
Thanks. I wish this topic was more common in discussion than it is. Your comments make points that have me thinking about it more. Anti-reversion and other details are usually steamrollered over by the old adage of gasket matching (which has evolved into port matching).
I have been thinking that the OEM cross pipe can be replaced with a less failure prone cross pipe.......as long as it is close to the OEM internal diameter.
**I should have specified one OEM failure I experienced looked to be root cause corrosion/thermal fatigue.**
Oh and I am also peaking interest in the 18G-XTR as well.

Last edited by JarHarms; 12-20-2011 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarHarms View Post
Thanks. I wish this topic was more common in discussion than it is. Your comments make points that have me thinking about it more. Anti-reversion and other details are usually steamrollered over by the old adage of gasket matching (which has evolved into port matching).
I have been thinking that the OEM cross pipe can be replaced with a less failure prone cross pipe.......as long as it is close to the OEM internal diameter.
Oh and I am also peaking interest in the 18G-XTR as well.
interesting. I've never had an OEM cross pipe fail, but I've seen a couple GS pipes go. They are awesome guys and warranty the pipes though.
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