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Old 02-01-2012, 06:37 AM   #626
StuBeck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draken View Post
Out of curiosity, how many wins in a year is considered more than "nothing"?
I was referring to how they would always have some revolution on the horizion, say it was going to beat Red Bull, and then they do the normal McLaren thing of not having a great car for the start of the season and having to play catchup the rest of the year. They've had this issue since 2004 or so.
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:44 AM   #627
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McLaren MP4-27
Thank god it doesn't have a duck nose.


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Old 02-01-2012, 08:08 AM   #628
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Exhaust blowing onto the brake fins to create downforce at the wheels, I'm assuming that is what they were expecting to get protested on? And agreed, just happy that there's no duck nose...or dolphin nose...or platypus nose...or whatever you want to call that abomination.
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:00 AM   #629
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Won't that heat up the brakes?
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:22 AM   #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis Hamilton
“We’ve changed the mirrors, we’ll be able to see a lot better. Felipe [Massa] will be very happy with that!"



As for the exhaust on the rear brake fins, here's some information from ScarbsF1 on how he envisioned the concept working.

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2012/0...ns-and-trends/

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarbsF1
Even more aggressive solution would be directing the exhausts onto the vanes allowed around the rear brake ducts. If avoiding the brake cooling inlet snorkel, the fast moving exhaust gas would produce downforce directly at the wheel, which is more efficient than wings mounted to the sprung part of the chassis. However the issue here would be the solution is likely to be so effective, that it will be sensitive to throttle position and rear ride height. If these issues can be engineered out, then this is an attractive solution.
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:57 AM   #631
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Originally Posted by StuBeck View Post
Won't that heat up the brakes?
brakes i am ok with. how do you think the tires will feel about the exhaust gases on them?
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:21 AM   #632
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I just checked scarbs as soon as I woke up looking exactly for that kind of picture and it wasnt posted yet, damn you pik :P (edit nvm thats not on the MP4-27 specifically. I am looking for him to post soon)

Car is gorgeous, as expected. Mclaren always likes the elongated flat nose, this year is no different. Of course its not a duck.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:28 AM   #633
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exhaust does indeed seem to be pointing at the rear brake ducts. surely this is a ruse?
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:28 PM   #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcongsr View Post
surely this is a ruse?
Don't call me Shirley.

The McLaren is a good looking car. If they can get exhaust blowing onto the wheel duct fins efficiently, but also reliably, then that seems to be the ace everyone will be chasing this year.

I guess until we know what Newey & co. elected for, we can only speculate if it works or not.

C'mon November...
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:34 PM   #635
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This view shows the exhaust outlet positioning with more clarity I think. I wasn't aware that the regulations allowed the exits to be so low; I guess that's what the projected fuss might be about...


EDIT: Another...

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Old 02-01-2012, 12:43 PM   #636
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Wow, the ass end of that thing is narrow.

I'd like to see them ditch the Mercedes-esque chrome paint job, but I guess not this year.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:22 PM   #637
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WTF is Lucozade
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:25 PM   #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol Gregg View Post
WTF is Lucozade
Its a sports drink, been one of their sponsors for a few years.

I believe its the exhaust which is what they think will be controversial. It seems like it would be fairly easy to replicate though, although I thought the idea behind the new regulation was that it had to offer no downforce at all.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:28 PM   #639
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Originally Posted by StuBeck View Post
although I thought the idea behind the new regulation was that it had to offer no downforce at all.
Ditto.

I'm not so sure how easy it will be to replicate however. It might require a wholesale change in aero to ensure the exhaust doesn't end up in the brake ducts. The margin for error and efficiency appears to be very small.
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:19 PM   #640
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http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...oward-comment/
Quote:
No Hamilton response to Sutil’s ‘coward’ comment

1 February 2012

Lewis Hamilton was protected by McLaren when quizzed over Adrian Sutil’s comments on Wednesday. Yesterday, the ex Force India driver, a long-time close friend of the 2008 World Champion, branded the Englishman a ‘coward’ for not attending his court hearing in Germany.

Sutil stood trial for assault and grievous bodily harm, having injured Eric Lux (CEO of Genii Capital, co-owner of the Lotus F1 team) in a Shanghai nightclub last April. As Hamilton had been nearby at the time of the incident, he had been summoned to attend the hearing and give evidence although he and McLaren declared that prior commitments would make that impossible.

Upon leaving the Munich court, after being given a suspended prison sentence of 18 months and a 200,000 euro (165,000) fine, Sutil told German publication Bild:


“Lewis is a coward…I don’t want to be friends with someone like that. He’s not a man, to me. Even his own father sent me a text message to wish me good luck at the trial, but he (Lewis) has changed his mobile number so I can’t even reach him anymore.”

Following the McLaren car launch in Woking on Wednesday, Reuters questioned Hamilton over Sutil’s jibe, only for a team spokesman to shun the inquiry.

“We've been told that Lewis shouldn't really go there (discuss the situation) because it might go under appeal, so can we move on to the next question,” the spokesman said before Hamilton replied with a smile, “I'll listen to him.”

Hamilton and Sutil were team-mates in the Formula 3 Euro Series of 2005, in which Hamilton claimed the title with Sutil finishing runner-up.
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:27 PM   #641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBeck View Post
Its a sports drink, been one of their sponsors for a few years.

I believe its the exhaust which is what they think will be controversial. It seems like it would be fairly easy to replicate though, although I thought the idea behind the new regulation was that it had to offer no downforce at all.
The way I understand it, the idea was to create rules that would prevent the exhaust from blowing the diffuser, but did not specifically ban influence on downforce. By creating the rules so that it put the requirements into a small box, the idea was that it would not have any significant impact.

From the Scarbs F1 link above:

Quote:
The exhausts must now sit in small allowable area, too high and far forward to direct the exhausts towards the diffuser. The exhausts must feature just two exits and no other openings in or out are allowed. The final 10cm of the exhaust must point rearwards and slightly up (between 10-30 degrees).
More ScarbsF1 analysis of the exhaust rule:

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/1...blown-effects/

Quote:
For 2012 we will see rules which tightly dictate the position of the last 10cm section of the exhaust pipe.
Firstly the exhaust must only transfer fluids from the engines exhaust ports to the tail pipe exit. i.e. no other gasses can enter or exit the exhaust along any point in its length. This prevents any reinterpretation of the exhaust exit or one way valves to maintain exhaust gas velocity. As Ferrari have been believed to have run on their car this year.
Then the tailpipe section is tightly defined, the last 100mm must be a round thinwall circular section, of 75mm internal diameter with no obstructions. So oval tailpipes, or pipes with internal vanes and\or slash cut exits are barred.
Then this last 100mm of pipe must be entirely within a specific area on the car. This has been highlighted on the accompanying drawings. The box seen in side elevation has to 500mm from the rear axle line and 250mm above the reference plane. This area is however very generous with a length of 700mm and height of 350mm. Thus the top of the exhaust could be as high as 600m above the reference plane, around the same height as the top of the rear tyres.
In plan view the box must be more than 200mm and less than 500mm from the cars centre line. So exhausts could not exit tightly placed along the cars centreline.

Within each of the boxes the exhaust must be positioned within a range of angles. From the side the exhaust must exit tailpipe-up and between 10 to 30 degrees from the reference plane. In plan view the tailpipe must be plus or minus 10 degrees from the cars centreline.

Lastly the exhaust position is also controlled by ensuring no bodywork sits in the tail pipes wake. To measure this, an imaginary cone (diverging at 3 degrees) in line with the pipe, reaching as far back as the rear axle line must be drawn. This cone (drawn red in the illustrations) must not touch any bodywork, nor must bodywork be placed over the cone. With a typical F1 car the only bodywork in the regions behind the tailpipe are the rear wing endplates, the front portion of rear brake ducts and any central top bodywork (i.e. Red Bulls bulged central cooling exit).
Bodywork behind the rear axle can cross the cones path. Bodywork is defined as any sprung part of the car, so little can be done to deflect the exhausts plumes to reach a specific aerodynamic device.
From the Technical Regs, nothing saying it can't provide downforce within the allowed specs:

Quote:
5.8 Exhaust systems :

5.8.1 With the exception of incidental leakage through exhaust joints (either into or out of the

system), no fluids, other than those which emerge from the engine exhaust ports, may be admitted into the engine exhaust system.

5.8.2 Engine exhaust systems may incorporate no more than two exits, both of which must be rearward facing tailpipes, through which all exhaust gases must pass.

5.8.3 The last 100mm of any tailpipe must in its entirety :

a) Form a thin‐walled unobstructed right circular cylinder whose internal diameter is no greater than 75mm with its axis at +/‐10 to the car centre line when viewed from above the car and between +10 and +30 (tail‐up) to the reference plane when viewed from the side of the car. The entire circumference of the exit should lie on a single plane normal to the tailpipe axis and be located at the rearmost extremity of the last 100mm of the tailpipe.

b) Be located between 250mm and 600mm above the reference plane.

c) Be located between 200mm and 500mm from the car centre line.

d) Be positioned in order that the entire circumference of the exit of the tailpipe lies between two vertical planes normal to the car centre line and which lie 500mm and 1200mm forward of the rear wheel centre line.

5.8.4 Once the exhaust tailpipes, the bodywork required by Article 3.8.4 and any apertures permitted by Article 3.8.5 have been fully defined there must be no bodywork lying within a
right circular truncated cone which :

a) Shares a common axis with that of the last 100mm of the tailpipe.

b) Has a forward diameter equal to that of each exhaust exit.

c) Starts at the exit of the tailpipe and extends rearwards as far as the rear wheel centre line.

d) Has a half‐cone angle of 3 such that the cone has its larger diameter at the rear wheel centre line.

Furthermore, there must be a view from above, the side, or any intermediate angle perpendicular to the car centre line, from which the truncated cone is not obscured by any bodywork lying more than 50mm forward of the rear wheel centre line.
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:41 PM   #642
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I think 5.8.4.b may be where they hit problems, but I'm obviously not an expert. 5.8.4.c seems strange in that it requires it to start at the exit of the tailpipe and then extend all the way back, I would have thought it would be an "or" not an "and". Will be interesting to see if it works, last year they had issues with their new exhaust.
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:09 PM   #643
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Damn, I didn't realize there was beef between Hamilton and Sutil.

Hammy's stock has really fallen since he ditched his dad as his manager...
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:35 PM   #644
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The fight/stabbing wasn't between Hamilton and Sutil. They were just at the club together and Sutil thought Hamilton should at least attend the trail, if I understand it correctly.

Last edited by artkevin; 02-01-2012 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:52 PM   #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol Gregg View Post
Damn, I didn't realize there was beef between Hamilton and Sutil.

Hammy's stock has really fallen since he ditched his dad as his manager...
The honeymoon is over.






Who is in for Montreal this year?
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:00 PM   #646
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Maybe Montreal (funding permitting), definitely Austin.
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:18 PM   #647
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I thought this was cool

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Old 02-01-2012, 05:28 PM   #648
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Evolution not revolution I'm guessing.
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:51 PM   #649
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Ridiculous toe-out. They must intentionally fudge the suspension for these shots.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:07 PM   #650
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Originally Posted by falcongsr View Post
Ridiculous toe-out. They must intentionally fudge the suspension for these shots.
It's called perspective.
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