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Old 12-29-2012, 09:31 PM   #301
Cobb Tuning
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Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT View Post
Doesn't that mean the fuel pump runs at 100% duty all the time, and not the 33, 66, and 100% modes?
Yes. Supply voltage to the controller is not the root problem -- it's the output voltage from the controller.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:18 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post

Yes. Supply voltage to the controller is not the root problem -- it's the output voltage from the controller.
I don't believe voltage is your concern here, it's the smaller oem wire/pump controller can't supply the amperage demand that the fuel pump has. The higher psi the higher the amp draw.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:23 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by bswilmington View Post
I don't believe voltage is your concern here, it's the smaller oem wire/pump controller can't supply the amperage demand that the fuel pump has. The higher psi the higher the amp draw.
^^^ Bingo! Install the larger direct wire, relay and fuse to protect it all!
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:47 PM   #304
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So the oem controller is okay with the higher amperage / voltage?
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:40 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
So the oem controller is okay with the higher amperage / voltage?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the controller is a low voltage switch that open and closes the relay that allows the current to flow through the wiring to the pump. Subaru designed the wiring for the pump to feed the stock pump and stockish fuel flow. The controller doesn't actually see the full amperage that the pump needs to pump the fuel for the injectors.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:45 AM   #306
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^ I'm pretty sure you are correct. This is also why when you install a Boost-a-Pump, you have to install it AFTER the controller, or the voltage increase will be wasted or possibly damage the controller.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:35 PM   #307
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Here look at this diagraph. The way it works is power supply voltage comes into the controller through the red power wire and goes out through the red wire to the pump. The ECU communicates with controller through the blue wires. Ground from fuel pump goes back to the controller through the yellow wire. The pump is controlled 33% 66% 100% through PWM signal, basically turning the pump on off at high speed to control the pumps output. Basically same way a boost control solenoid is controlled.

With all the wiring going through the controller it is going to limit amperage that can be carried on the circuit. If you want to hard wire the pump completely bypass the controller otherwise there is still going to be amp limitation to the system.

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Old 12-30-2012, 06:51 PM   #308
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so the best option is to run 100% all the time...?
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:24 PM   #309
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so the best option is to run 100% all the time...?
not if you're on the OEM fuel pressure regulator
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:50 PM   #310
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i am about to put a walbro 400 in my fuel system so this info is really pertinent to me right now.

i currently have a walbro 255 in the stock hanger. out of the hanger i used a push lock fragola 5/16 to 6AN adapter. 6AN under the car through a fragola fuel filter to a 6x6x6 Y center of my engine. the Y splits to each agency power parallel rail. both rails return to the aeromotive 1000 FPR. out of the bottom of the FPR to a 6AN by 5/16 AN compression(ferrel) fitting to stock 5/16 fuel return.

i had phil at FLAT 4 MOTORSPORTS make me an OEM bulkheaded fuel hanger for the walbro 400. the pump will mount stock and the oem 5/16 feed and return removed for 6AN bulkhead 90's. i plan to run another 6AN line under the car for return.

i also had him make me a harness for 14v direct power using the a relay and OEM fuel pump controller. i am paying him to do it for stress free simple install.

now i have to wonder if i can simply hook up some wires or if the FPC is gonna be an issue.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:13 PM   #311
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not if you're on the OEM fuel pressure regulator
What is the issue with the stock FPR?
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:28 PM   #312
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i assume the stock fpr gets over run.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:32 PM   #313
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i thought the wire in and out of the fuel pump controller was just a signal wire. i have confused myself on how the wires actually run and what the fuel pump controller actually does...

the relay is the switch...the controller tells the pump what percentage to run based on what the ecu is telling it?

so i have to somehow hook up a big ass power wire to my fpc?

i need to start over.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:33 PM   #314
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What is the issue with the stock FPR?
The stock FPR us set at 43.5 psi so you can't take advantage of the what the higher amperage offers with increased fuel pressure to get more flow out of you injectors.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:38 PM   #315
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I thought I read somewhere that said higher pressure would mean less flow. Getting confused.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:40 AM   #316
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Less flow from the pump but at higher pressure. The higher pressure will make the injectors flow more fuel. It's the; Bernoulli's principle.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:02 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by manitou View Post
The stock FPR us set at 43.5 psi so you can't take advantage of the what the higher amperage offers with increased fuel pressure to get more flow out of you injectors.
I asked dom, he was talking about the fuel pump being at 100% at idle over-running the stock regulator and causing erratic fp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jockeygolfs View Post
I thought I read somewhere that said higher pressure would mean less flow. Getting confused.
that is a true statement. look at any Fuel pump flow graph. The bosch044 is about the only one thats linear across the pressure range



Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
Less flow from the pump but at higher pressure. The higher pressure will make the injectors flow more fuel. It's the; Bernoulli's principle.
that is a true statement to a point. it depends on alot of things....fuel pump, fuel pressure, boost....

if you turn the fuel pressure up on a walbro255 and you're running 26+psi on a decent size turbo on e85, the fuel flow will decrease and the car will lean out.

Last edited by Phatron; 12-31-2012 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:18 AM   #318
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so is the stock fuel pump controller, ok with being wired to the walbro 400 with direct 14v?
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:44 AM   #319
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^^its always good to hard wire if you are looking for consistancy, I bought the 460 and am in a spot to either simply hardwire (directly to battery with larger wire) or go all out with the a1000 surge tank and all kind of like yours, I can see that being a 5-600 dollar difference at the least

here's a hardwire install kit, dw sells http://www.forcedfabllc.com/deatschw...tallation-kit/

Last edited by Irv Weissmanhowerton; 12-31-2012 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:17 AM   #320
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i guess i need to see a lay out of the wiring to understand.

power from the battery goes to...
grounds go...
wires to the relay come from and go to...
wires to the FPC come from and go to...
wires from the fuel pump come from and go to...
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:21 AM   #321
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woops for double post, just read back at all these pages and found this from a week ago
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
For those wanting to do the Fuel Pump direct wire DW sells a kit now. $40

http://www.deatschwerks.com/products...ion-kit-detail

Get the most out of your DW200, DW300, DW65c or other high flow fuel pump by ensuring it gets the voltage it needs. Old, compromised OE wiring can limit the voltage your fuel pump receives. Our hardwire kit includes everything you need to safely, easily, and reliably wire your pump directly to your battery, ensuring no matter how hard you push your pump, your wiring will be up to the task. We especially recommend this kit for use in cars over 10 years old, cars making over 400whp, and cars which were originally not designed for high horsepower. See Below for kit contents:

•15' of 12ga SLX spec red power cable
•5' of 12ga SLX spec black ground cable
•30 amp in-line fuse
•40 amp automotive relay
•4-lead relay socket with pigtails
•Install instructions
•DW window decal
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:23 AM   #322
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this was also from a page back, its a link to someone else's write-up
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:30 AM   #323
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oh boy...
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:02 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post

I asked dom, he was talking about the fuel pump being at 100% at idle over-running the stock regulator and causing erratic fp.
So far so good on my DW320 direct wire setup. Pressure stays constant at idle.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:20 AM   #325
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I think some of you may be over-thinking this a little. If you go and look at the wiring diagram in the manual, it is a VERY simple system (edit-just realized the diagram is posted above).


To answer your question maxpowr, yes, the stock fuel pump controller will be fine if hardwired to it and then from it to the fuel pump. This will allow you to reap the benefits of having the hardwired fuel pump, but also to still allow the ecu to have control over it's duty cycle. There will be a very slight voltage drop across the controller, but it will be very small and won't really cause any issues or anything. Doing things this way is definitely better than the stock wiring. Obviously, the better solution would be to just hardwire the fuel pump for 100% operation, install an aftermarket fpr, and then you won't have anything to worry about.

This is why I like to go with the boost-a-pump on setups that are street driven (I say this because on cars that see extended periods of hard use like road racing and such, fuel temperature may come into play using a boost-a-pump). It allows the fuel pump controller to do it's thing at idle and when in vacuum, but above 5psi of boost, the boost-a-pump will regulate AND step up voltage depending on what you have the control knob set at. If the control knob is set to the lowest setting, no matter what the input voltage is, the output voltage is 14v, and if it is set at the highest setting, no matter what the input voltage, the output voltage is 17.5v. Take a look at what some of the smaller fuel pumps out there flow when the voltage is increased...even the little walbro 255 starts to shine a little...

Last edited by amalgrover; 12-31-2012 at 08:34 AM.
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