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Old 12-01-2011, 06:32 PM   #1
jjjenningsiii
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Default A bit disappointed...

Early word had it that the BRZ would have a near 300 hp motor, making it pretty attractive in my eyes. It seems now that it is going to be nothing other than a rebadged Scion shrouded in world rally blue.

I'm sure turbo kits will pop onto the market as soon as the car is released, but C'MON subaru! This was the first new car I've been excited about in a long time (other than the GTR of course) and it turns out to be over-hyped, pre-release specs watered down to a beige version of what it could have been.
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Old 12-01-2011, 06:59 PM   #2
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Where have you been? Subaru has said no such thing in regards to a 300hp BRZ. You had a bunch of magazines spouting 300hp because it sold magazines and got hits on their stories, which makes them money.

I am sure there will be a faster model in the future, but it will most likely never be 300hp. Wait for the new WRX/STi if you want those kinds of figures.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:54 PM   #3
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jj, you obviously don't get it. Thank you for another useless thread.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjenningsiii View Post
Early word had it that the BRZ would have a near 300 hp motor, making it pretty attractive in my eyes. It seems now that it is going to be nothing other than a rebadged Scion shrouded in world rally blue.

I'm sure turbo kits will pop onto the market as soon as the car is released, but C'MON subaru! This was the first new car I've been excited about in a long time (other than the GTR of course) and it turns out to be over-hyped, pre-release specs watered down to a beige version of what it could have been.
Source: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2190817

I would highly encourage you to check out the "News and Rumors" Forum on NASIOC, if you have not already.

There have been quite a bit of astute conversations on this car since its inception, and none of them have been anything but the FB20 as an NA and RWD (aside from some people harping on about AWD).

I have been keeping up with this information, personally, for quite some time, and I have never seen information or Press bundles released with anything more than that.

There is now speculation about an STi model of the BRZ, but that is at least a model year off.

- brian
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Old 12-02-2011, 02:43 PM   #5
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I find it entertaining that if the car had weighed 3700 lbs instead of 2700 lbs some people would have been happier as long as it also came with 300hp.
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
I find it entertaining that if the car had weighed 3700 lbs instead of 2700 lbs some people would have been happier as long as it also came with 300hp.
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
I find it entertaining that if the car had weighed 3700 lbs instead of 2700 lbs some people would have been happier as long as it also came with 300hp.
2700 lbs
200 hp
150 lbs of torque
30 mpg

Doesn't really seem that impressive….
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dw914er View Post
2700 lbs
200 hp
150 lbs of torque
30 mpg

Doesn't really seem that impressive….
Yet, you bought a WRX with the same power to weight (or worse, depending on where the driveline losses land the BRZ's hp rating at the wheels).
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dw914er View Post
2700 lbs
200 hp
150 lbs of torque
30 mpg

Doesn't really seem that impressive….
...until you add in:

RWD
low COG
4 seats
good shifter
reasonable price
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:08 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Yet, you bought a WRX with the same power to weight (or worse, depending on where the driveline losses land the BRZ's hp rating at the wheels).
I came from the Honda scene.. and I've grown to think that having no torque sucks. It's why I left. I'll quote Corky Bell and say "Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun."
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:09 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Deslock View Post
...until you add in:

RWD
low COG
4 seats
good shifter
reasonable price
RWD and the low COG are good features. The price, seats, and price aren't as impressive (though not bad either). I'm just saying that alittle more power would go a long way.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by dw914er View Post
I came from the Honda scene.. and I've grown to think that having no torque sucks. It's why I left. I'll quote Corky Bell and say "Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun."
I'll quote Automobile Magazines review
Quote:
For all the Internet armchair warriors complaining about the meager power output, let us be the first to say: the BRZ doesn’t need a turbo. It doesn’t WANT a turbo. And anyone who says the car should have a turbo is missing the point. Like the Mazda RX-8 and Miata, the Porsche 944 and original Boxster -- and all of those cars from decades ago -- the BRZ is fun because of handling, not because of a sledgehammer that hits when you mash the gas pedal.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dw914er View Post
2700 lbs
200 hp
150 lbs of torque
30 mpg

Doesn't really seem that impressive….
that is because you are bench racing. Get out and drive it. If you can't go fast, its your fault.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatsuya View Post
I'll quote Automobile Magazines review


Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...#ixzz1fPnEh8C4[/color][/left]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keshav View Post
that is because you are bench racing. Get out and drive it. If you can't go fast, its your fault.
Look, all we have to go off is the specs presented and Toyota's brilliant marketing campaign. And.. and the specs aren't impressive. I really want to love this car, but I'm just not sold on it.

Now, before you say I'm obsessed about power, I know a lot about driving a slow yet fun car. My weekend warrior is a 73 Porsche 914. It's not quick, but it'll corner like a bat out of hell. But I also realize that it's also almost 40 years old. If I'm going to make payments on a new car, I shouldn't have to compare it to platforms that are over a decade old. Cross shopping with a RX-8 or something also is unsettling. The technology is beyond that.

Last edited by SLO_Flat4; 12-02-2011 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:41 PM   #15
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The technology is beyond that.
At this price range? No.
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:02 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mrmojoz View Post
At this price range? No.
You make it seem like 200hp and 150lbs of torque is some sort of technological achievement. Just on paper, the mpg, power, and weight is the same as what I came from (rsx)*. I'll agree, the Scion will likely be pretty well priced: right at the MX-5 level. But the BRZ.. eh, seems like more hype than it should be. I'm just saying I feel slightly underwhelmed. Again, we're comparing a car to platforms that were built decades ago in order to justify the lack of power. The "they did it in the 60's, so it's ok for 2012" mindset just seems though to swallow. Honestly, the only reason why I even bother worring about this is, again, I really want to love this car. I just don't want to have to rev the piss out of this to keep up with traffic.

*I know there will be differences in the driving profile between a fwd econobox and the rwd subie beast. But those numbers are not some sort of rarity.
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Old 12-03-2011, 10:11 AM   #17
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Also... the RSX was a great car in G-Stock. The WRX was complete crap in D-Stock (225hp), and gets dominated by everything coming and going with its terrible camber curve, heavy weight, and no center/front diff.

This car will be lighter, have a flat torque curve, the same width wheels (for stock class), RWD WITH a Torsen LSD.

All that is left to be seen is what the actual gear ratios are.

PAX-wise (and tire management wise), I would take this car hands down to any WRX.

- brian

Last edited by dowroa; 12-03-2011 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 12-03-2011, 01:43 PM   #18
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We've also yet to see how the engine will take to aftermarket upgrades. With emission restrictions, fuel efficiency goals, and a factory tune this motor could still have more to give with the right parts. We will all just have to keep on waiting.
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Old 12-03-2011, 01:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by dw914er View Post
Look, all we have to go off is the specs presented and Toyota's brilliant marketing campaign. And.. and the specs aren't impressive. I really want to love this car, but I'm just not sold on it.
Have you ever heard the phrase "more than a sum of its parts"? Everything I've read about this car indicates that this car is more than a sum of its specs. Why don't you wait until you drive the car before you decide that you can't love this car?

I also find it odd that people driving the 2.0 turbo WRX are complaining about torque. How does that car drive before you're on full boost? Oh, that's right, you have to rev it a bit to have any fun.
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:37 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by chulooz View Post
We've also yet to see how the engine will take to aftermarket upgrades. With emission restrictions, fuel efficiency goals, and a factory tune this motor could still have more to give with the right parts. We will all just have to keep on waiting.
I'm excited to see what the different tuner companies produce for the car. If there is one thing this car has done well, it's give new excitement to the cheap (sub $30k) tuning car scene. The Photoshop rendering that have been popping up look good. I just hope you don't have to fight dealerships with warranty claims once you start modding the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
Have you ever heard the phrase "more than a sum of its parts"? Everything I've read about this car indicates that this car is more than a sum of its specs. Why don't you wait until you drive the car before you decide that you can't love this car?

I also find it odd that people driving the 2.0 turbo WRX are complaining about torque. How does that car drive before you're on full boost? Oh, that's right, you have to rev it a bit to have any fun.
I'm not dismissing the car; just thought I would see more, at least on paper. Everything else I like and I think the BRZ looks great. I'll give it a test drive and make a final judgement in regards to the execution.

And why is everyone bashing on my car. "You drive a bugeye, so you have no concept or knowledge about good cars " Other than being completely irrelevant to the discussion, it's not even as bad as you guys are trying to say. Well, maybe except for the auto-x bit for D-stock; I haven't taken my wrx to an auto-x, yet.
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Old 12-03-2011, 05:13 PM   #21
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And why is everyone bashing on my car. "You drive a bugeye, so you have no concept or knowledge about good cars " Other than being completely irrelevant to the discussion, it's not even as bad as you guys are trying to say. Well, maybe except for the auto-x bit for D-stock; I haven't taken my wrx to an auto-x, yet.
There is nothing wrong with the WRX. A low displacement turbo engine that makes pretty good power is going to be laggy. That is just the nature of the beast. The same goes for a naturally aspirated 2.0L making 100hp/L. It is going to need to be reved a bit. And there is nothing wrong with either one. There isn't a "right" way to design an engine making ~200hp. Getting hung up on torque at below 4k RPM doesn't make sense on a car that was designed to live between 5000 RPM and 7500 RPM. That is the only reason I brought up the 2.0L WRX.
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:06 PM   #22
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An NA car with 12.5:1 compression ratio and direct injection will make far more torque than an off-boost EJ20... also the gear ratios are shorter in the BRZ for even more wheel torque...

but, as I pointed out (not bashing ) the BRZ looks like it will have a similar power to weight ratio as a 2002-2008 WRX.. so bitching about the horsepower while owning one of those is ridiculous.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:30 PM   #23
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You make it seem like 200hp and 150lbs of torque is some sort of technological achievement.
I did what now? You are saying the car should have more technology shoved in to it without taking cost into the equation. Just stop.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:49 PM   #24
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I want to wait until someone is selling one with a blown motor for under $15k. Then proceed to drop in a V9 JDM STi motor and have some real fun. Apart from the engine output, I'm impressed with the car and understand that it's about a fun/light car for a cheap price. I just want 350whp+ with it
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:56 PM   #25
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Now, before you say I'm obsessed about power, I know a lot about driving a slow yet fun car. My weekend warrior is a 73 Porsche 914.
I honestly think you don't realize how much you are going to love this car until you actually drive it.

I recommend you withhold your reservations until then.
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