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Old 08-11-2002, 01:59 AM   #1
morphgabbin
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well, I went to the track today to test the n2o. I'm running a txs stage IV w/ vishnu pulley and a 50 shot of n2o. I wasn't fully prepared when the tree dropped and my car rolled a little off the line and went a 4.4xx 60ft, a 10.xxx 1/8 mi and a 12.5, I'll post the exact times tomorrow bc I don't have the slip in front of me now. I didn't get to make any more passed bc the next run I spun a bearing and threw a rod . But I figure with a good run it should've went a least a 12.2, 12.1.
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Old 08-11-2002, 09:22 AM   #2
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Yikes, It sounds like something went very wrong.
In that first run with your 10.xx 1/8 mile time and you still ran 12.5 you were making huge Hp on the top end. If you launched the car correctly you would be in the 11s.

With a proper launch you will be in the 7s in the 1/8 mile with your setup. Now we need to figure out what went wrong?

Did you bogg off the line the second run? NOS can cause serious damage if you bogg the car running NOS off the line. Did you over rev the motor? What boost were you running with your 50shot? Who's kit were you using?
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Old 08-11-2002, 10:47 AM   #3
morphgabbin
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ok, here are the exact times
60ft - 4.492
1/8mi - 10.665 @ 88.71
1/4mi - 12.505 @ 106.69

The reason it blew up was completely my fault. After my first run I forgot to turn the switch off, so when I floored it to make my next launch, I was shooting nitrous through the motor in neutral. I was using a nitrous works wet kit and was running 10psi, but would spike to around 17 on the nitrous.
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Old 08-11-2002, 12:26 PM   #4
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Scary stuff... Time for a stoker kit.

CT
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Old 08-11-2002, 03:17 PM   #5
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AZscoobie - which stroker kit looks good to you? I think the Cobb kit (2.5) looks great! but it seems the Jun kit (which is much simpler) has a great reputation (2.2 liters). Both are around $5K.
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Old 08-11-2002, 03:46 PM   #6
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So if you would get your 60's in the 1.8's or lower you are looking at a Sub 10 sec run...

Are you sure your reading your timeslip right?
Maybe your reaction time was 4.4 not your 60....

or maybe im confused? But sitting behind the 60 marker for 4.4 secs and still managing to pull off a 12.5@106 is a fast fvcking car.

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Old 08-11-2002, 04:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sordid Philosopher
AZscoobie - which stroker kit looks good to you? I think the Cobb kit (2.5) looks great! but it seems the Jun kit (which is much simpler) has a great reputation (2.2 liters). Both are around $5K.
I have gone over this and over what to do "when" my motor dies. I say that because I know it will die running at the levels it is out now. I have purchased a truck and am no looking for a trailer to haul the WRX in so the car is now officially a toy. Its use will be racing of all times and blowing off steam. Not transportation.

Let me say this so you know where I am at: I will not build my motor for the purpose of more power. I will only build it and or replace it on failure. You will not find me installing a stroke kit on a perfectly good motor.

MRT, Cobb, rigoli and Jun all have options. As for the cobb vs Jun kit I would choose JUN. That kit has proven itself to me and to others and I know Jun makes top notch products. Noting against Cobb, I just dont have experience with Cobb and they have not been in the business as long. Maybe my choice will change with time. Maybe they have the better product.....

Here are my thoughts on options for people with oever 350hp and blown US ej20 motors.

Option #1. Get a new age STI engine and trans complete from Japan. Advantages are the 6spd, Forged pistons, and a motor that revs to 8000+ from the factory. Its a strong engine and you get alot for the money. I expect them to live at 450hp reasonable well. ===drawbacks, Cost. Expect to pay $5000 on avg for this + extra parts. 6spd is nice and strong BUT its gears are short and you are shifting into 5th now. The 6mt is also heavy do to its design and the oil pump ect...The 6mt hurts 1/4 performance. If all you care about is drag then go to a 5mt dog. Just my opinion... Al has this setup and its making big power for a 2.0

Option #2. Jun, MRT, or cobb stroke kit on US ej20 open deck block. I have gone over this many times. Here is my problem... I cant leave well enough alone. I would keep adding parts and serivice work to the engine and what I want would cost about $8000. I have had built motors before and I have never had one that actually lasted. Either piston slap, oil burning or rod knock has killed all the built motors I have ever had. You cant expect a built motor to last like a stock motor. I dont care who builds it. If you want BIG and I mean BIG power then go down this road.

Option #3. Built 2.5 block. I will not go this route. The reason is that I think 2.5 is just to much for the platform. I think you loose alot of reliability. Some have done it and it works but its not for me. I want a high reving motor with strength.

Option #4. Closed deck liberty block warmed over or an early closed deck STI block warmed over. My personal opinion is that a closed deck block is not needed. Subaru uses open deck blocks for many reasons. The aided cooling to the cyl is a big benifit. If I kept hearing of cracked bores then I would think otherwise but the open deck block has been around for a while now and you just dont hear of it like we did with the honda blocks making big power. I feel confident with the EJ20 open deck block. I am not saying I think the open deck is as strong as the closed deck block... I am saying that I feel that I want an open deck block.

Option #5. Keep putting in JDM ej20 used motors. This is cheap. $1200-$1500.

The next year is going to filled with blown US engine posts. I know this cause many people are now making big power on stock blocks. The room for error is marginal. My personaly opinion is that the stock motor will live a long time at 300hp. 350hp and you are really working the engine hard. 400hp is past the engines design limits and its only a matter of time before something fails or wears out.

We can talk more if you reply with your realistic goals.... I am not an expert but I have been doing alot of research on what to do. It might be fun to bounce back and forth with sime idea's

CT
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Old 08-11-2002, 05:44 PM   #8
Baluchitherium4
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AZ,

Are you talking AWHP or flywheel?

Thanks,

Dale
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Old 08-11-2002, 05:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Baluchitherium4
AZ,

Are you talking AWHP or flywheel?

Thanks,

Dale

Sorry dale.. I am talking crank HP. I am conservative due to my intrest in road racing. When I talk about reliability I speak of a engine running road races then driving you home and to work on monday while going over 50,000 miles of use before the expected failure.


CT
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Old 08-11-2002, 06:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ryan Autry
So if you would get your 60's in the 1.8's or lower you are looking at a Sub 10 sec run...

Are you sure your reading your timeslip right?
Maybe your reaction time was 4.4 not your 60....

or maybe im confused? But sitting behind the 60 marker for 4.4 secs and still managing to pull off a 12.5@106 is a fast fvcking car.

I normally run 1.7 sixty foot times, but when the tree dropped I wasn't ready and the car rolled forward while I was spooling and started the clock.
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Old 08-11-2002, 06:50 PM   #11
Ryan Autry
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Quote:
Originally posted by morphgabbin


I normally run 1.7 sixty foot times, but when the tree dropped I wasn't ready and the car rolled forward while I was spooling and started the clock.
but you will run a sub 10 sec run if you get a 1.7 60ft. Right?
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Old 08-11-2002, 08:10 PM   #12
morphgabbin
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I was thinking more of a high 11, based on my mods
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Old 08-11-2002, 08:19 PM   #13
Ryan Autry
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Quote:
Originally posted by morphgabbin
I was thinking more of a high 11, based on my mods
but if you take 4.4 and - out your normal 60's is a 2.7 sec difference. If you cut 2.7 secs off that run you must drive the fastest WRX in the world... Sub 10's.....

Congrats.
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Old 08-11-2002, 08:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by morphgabbin
ok, here are the exact times
60ft - 4.492
1/8mi - 10.665 @ 88.71
1/4mi - 12.505 @ 106.69

Are you sure you are reading your slip correctly? To go from the 1/8th mile point to the 1/4 mile point in 1.9 seconds would require an average speed of over 236 mph!
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Old 08-11-2002, 08:56 PM   #15
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AZScoobie - I have been going round and round about this too. Not to make more power but to increase low end torque and decrease turbo spool up time. I am not looking for big HP numbers, I want 275-300 whp numbers (that's about 400 flywheel HP).

I also want a good daily driver, without fears that I'll break apart piston #4 or have a big end failure (often reported in the UK).

The Jun kit (2.2 liters) I understand that the metalurgy for JUN is exceptional so piston slap is minimized because the pistons expand at the same rate as the block. $5K pistons, rods and crank, nothing else. They also sell high end valves, but I haven't seen them anyplace for sale.

The Cobb kit (whole block) looks much more complete. It is closed deck and 2.5 liters and has cermaic coated pistons etc. It looks like a better deal for $5K than Jun does.

TODA also advertises a kit - but I haven't found a source for it yet.

Everyone says that the MRT kit is much cheaper than the Cobb kit, but I haven't found a source for it yet.

Do you have a source for the MRT kit?

Thanks.
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Old 08-11-2002, 08:57 PM   #16
Ryan Autry
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Quote:
Originally posted by 4sfed 4


Are you sure you are reading your slip correctly? To go from the 1/8th mile point to the 1/4 mile point in 1.9 seconds would require an average speed of over 236 mph!

yes he is reading it right... You can't question him, he drivers the fastest WRX in the world.... 9 sec WRX at that...
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Old 08-11-2002, 09:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ryan Autry



yes he is reading it right... You can't question him, he drivers the fastest WRX in the world.... 9 sec WRX at that...
look, I'm not trying to brag, I'm posting what the timeslip says. I went to the track hopeing to pull off a 12.2, 12.3, but blew up my motor before I had a chance to get a good run.

I'll scan and post the timeslip tomorrow, but fyi looking back over it, the slip has to be wrong. It says 1/8 mi 10.665 @ 88.71, but then goes on to read 1000ft at 2.716 and a 1/4 of 12.5 @ 106.69. So it has to be wrong bc there is no way you can run 1000ft quicker than the 1/8 mi. Like I said I'll scan and post the slip tomorrow so you can look it over.
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Old 08-11-2002, 09:13 PM   #18
Ryan Autry
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Quote:
Originally posted by morphgabbin


look, I'm not trying to brag, I'm posting what the timeslip says. I went to the track hopeing to pull off a 12.2, 12.3, but blew up my motor before I had a chance to get a good run.

I'll scan and post the timeslip tomorrow, but fyi looking back over it, the slip has to be wrong. It says 1/8 mi 10.665 @ 88.71, but then goes on to read 1000ft at 2.716 and a 1/4 of 12.5 @ 106.69. So it has to be wrong bc there is no way you can run 1000ft quicker than the 1/8 mi. Like I said I'll scan and post the slip tomorrow so you can look it over.
Sounds like your timing lights at the track were all fvcked up... To bad you can't say you ran a 12.6 if that's the case. You never know what you ran?
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Old 08-12-2002, 08:14 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ryan Autry



yes he is reading it right... You can't question him, he drivers the fastest WRX in the world.... 9 sec WRX at that...
If he had an average speed of over 236 mph through the last 1/8th mile, he would probably be ahead of John Force!
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Old 08-12-2002, 12:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sordid Philosopher
AZScoobie - I have been going round and round about this too. Not to make more power but to increase low end torque and decrease turbo spool up time. I am not looking for big HP numbers, I want 275-300 whp numbers (that's about 400 flywheel HP).

I also want a good daily driver, without fears that I'll break apart piston #4 or have a big end failure (often reported in the UK).

The Jun kit (2.2 liters) I understand that the metalurgy for JUN is exceptional so piston slap is minimized because the pistons expand at the same rate as the block. $5K pistons, rods and crank, nothing else. They also sell high end valves, but I haven't seen them anyplace for sale.

The Cobb kit (whole block) looks much more complete. It is closed deck and 2.5 liters and has cermaic coated pistons etc. It looks like a better deal for $5K than Jun does.

TODA also advertises a kit - but I haven't found a source for it yet.

Everyone says that the MRT kit is much cheaper than the Cobb kit, but I haven't found a source for it yet.

Do you have a source for the MRT kit?

Thanks.
There are other stroker options such as Rigoli strokers: http://www.rigoliracing.com.au/strokerengines.htm

and perFOURmance
http://www.pms.net.au/subaru/subaru.htm

I'd particularly like to know about perFOURmance...AU$5000 for a complete 2.2 kit (see pics of the kit), and AU$6000 for a 2.4 assembled shortblock. I forget the price of their 2.5 shortblock, but its pretty reasonable, too. I've been helped by them in emails, too. Anyone know more about perFOURmance?
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