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Old 07-23-2014, 11:08 AM   #1
SCRAPPYDO
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Default Ford Beats weight reduction estimate on F150

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Old 07-23-2014, 04:46 PM   #2
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Really guys?

Try again.
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Old 07-23-2014, 04:54 PM   #3
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That is good news. I don't know if I've seen too manufacturers beat their weight goals, especially on a massed produced car. It's almost always over due to costs. And also if only there were some sort of mechanism, like pricing, in a free market, like ours, that could change the way people buy things? Hmm novel concept. If they can still afford it why would things change? They trucks are more efficient and cleaner than ever, people can get what they want. As soon as the government dictates what cars you can and cannot buy, we will no longer be in the great USA.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:01 PM   #4
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Jesus christ. Even sane conversations get tossed out?
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:02 PM   #5
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http://www.freep.com/article/2014071...d-Audi-Porsche


Quote:
Aluminum is closing in on silver bullet status for the auto industry.

The industry has long viewed the metal as a way to make vehicles lighter and more fuel efficient, but obstacles such as cost and manufacturing technology relegated it to niche applications, usually luxury vehicles, while steel remained the material of choice for the majority of the industry.

Conventional wisdom was thrown out the window in January when Ford unveiled the 2015 F-150 with an aluminum body. It will go into production later this year and Ford will build more than 700,000 of them annually, relying on internal research that 80% of truck buyers want better fuel economy and appreciate the properties of aluminum that doesn’t rust or dent.

Fiat Chrysler Automobiles CEO Sergio Marchionne said the next-generation Ram pickup in 2017 could also use aluminum if it looks like Ford’s trucks are a runaway success. But Chrysler might focus its aluminum strategy on the next Jeep Wrangler, Marchionne has hinted. The new Chevrolet Corvette has an aluminum body. The expectation is the next generation of GM’s full-size pickups will also switch to aluminum bodies.

It all underscores aluminum’s entry to the industry’s mainstream.

“We’re seeing a shift from steel to aluminum,” said Scott Jacobson, senior manager with consulting firm KPMG in Chicago.

By 2025, 18% of all vehicles will have all-aluminum bodies, up from less than 1% now, according to a recent report from Ducker Worldwide.

The industry is now engaged in a conversation about the pratfalls and possible solutions of using aluminum on a high-volume vehicle. The challenges are being solved with new ways of joining aluminum and steel, manufacturing with speed and efficiency, crashworthiness and repairability, cost and consumer acceptance.

Ducker forecasts that next-decade aluminum will be used for 75% of the panels and parts on pickups, 24% of large cars, 22% of SUVs and 18% of minivans.

The F-150 is an industry catalyst, said Gary Silberg, national auto industry leader at KPMG. “They’re figuring it out. People are studying it and making it a reality.”

■ Related: Ford gambles on new F-150 made of aluminum

“Larger vehicles benefit most,” Jacobson said. As they shed weight, they can use smaller chassis, engine, brakes and other components, which reduces overall cost.

Suppliers are making components and modules of the lighter-weight material.

Magna partnered with Ford to create a lightweight concept of a Fusion sedan that is 24% lighter after it was torn down and built back up with new materials, said Swamy Kotagiri, Magna’s chief technical officer.

Three of seven prototype research vehicles built at Magna’s Troy center using lighter materials are undergoing rigorous testing of everything from durability to mileage, Kotagiri said. The project, cofunded by the Department of Energy, is designed to benefit the industry by creating a lighter sedan that is affordable, said Del Matharoo, Magna vice president of engineering.

Bill Ford, in a July 7 guest editorial in the Wall Street Journal, said meeting demand for greater efficiency “requires more than changes to engines and energy sources. New materials and manufacturing processes will reshape auto manufacturers and the suppliers we have worked with for decades. Aluminum and high-strength steel will evolve as the materials that serve as the backbone of the industry.”

The F-150 has a high-strength steel frame and a cab and bed made entirely of aluminum alloys. It weighs 700 pounds less than the 2014 model. Aluminum accounts for 70% of that reduction.

“Aluminum is the right answer for the truck body,” said Randy Visintainer, director of Ford Research and Innovation. “It doesn’t mean it is the right answer for all vehicles.”

The F-150 has been at least four years in the making. Ford teams worked on such challenges as how to weld, rivet, glue and coat pieces to avoid corrosion where steel and aluminum meet. Others tackled the best way to assemble the truck and configure tooling at truck plants in Dearborn and Kansas City.

The truck was also built for ease of repair at dealerships and collision shops without exorbitant cost to owners.

“The learning curve on this is just starting,” said Mike VanLoo, director of business services for Autometric Collision in Pontiac, which has nine locations and 20 years’ experience with aluminum repair. “If someone said we’d be riveting and gluing cars together 25 years ago and it is stronger than actual welding, I wouldn’t have believed it.” .

He does not see the repair cost being much higher because some steps used when working with steel are eliminated. Damaged parts can be removed and new ones riveted quickly.

Workers at VanLoo’s shops will be trained to Ford certification and they will have the necessary tools such as self-piercing rivet guns. Unequipped shops will need to invest about $70,000. Ford will partially subsidize the cost.

But certification is not mandatory and that has VanLoo worried.

“We’ll see some incredibly poor repairs by shops who didn’t spend time on proper training,” he said.

I-CAR, a nonprofit organization for the collision repair industry, has developed a customized course for Ford and will offer certification for those who will repair the aluminum F-150.

John VanAlstyne, head of I-CAR, said planning started years before the truck was unveiled. There is a six-hour course focused on the F-150, including joining practices with aluminum. The first courses started in June, he said.

There are about 35,000 repair shops in the U.S., and only 20% of dealers have their own collision shops, VanAlstyne said.

Raj Nair, Ford’s head of global product development, said as repair shops gain knowledge and experience of the tools and work required, they will meet the challenge.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post
Jesus christ. Even sane conversations get tossed out?
To be fair, if you read the rules for N&R this thread was breaking at least 2 of them...

I just wish mods were as proactive about keeping the trolls and whiny bitches from posting the same crap over and over.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:09 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post
Jesus christ. Even sane conversations get tossed out?
Zero tolerance.

Sane debate quickly becomes arguing when politics is involved.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
Zero tolerance.

Sane debate quickly becomes arguing when politics is involved.
and moving the entire thread to PP wouldnt suffice?

Like I've stated to you before (and now also by someone else in this thread), get rid / penalize the idiotic comments that start to spark the PP conversations and this would become a non issue.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:18 PM   #9
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That would have been the very first comment in this case, which did get removed, along with all other comments on the issue. I'd much rather just have my comment removed if it's in response to someone else's political debate as opposed to all of us getting points.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:18 PM   #10
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Let he who has not started a political debate throw the first mousepad.

Well done Honda.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:22 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post
and moving the entire thread to PP wouldnt suffice?

Like I've stated to you before (and now also by someone else in this thread), get rid / penalize the idiotic comments that start to spark the PP conversations and this would become a non issue.
So do what I did but don't?

This is a car news discussion. Want to argue politics? (yes, the term is argue not debate) go to PP, there are plenty of threads there for you to choose from.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:22 PM   #12
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There should be a rule that Pre can't bring up Subaru's lack of hatchbacks/wagons for 6 months.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand: I like what Ford has done with the aluminum. I hope it trickles down to the rest of the lineup, because 700 lbs decrease in this day and age is amazing.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:31 PM   #13
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So do what I did but don't?

This is a car news discussion. Want to argue politics? (yes, the term is argue not debate) go to PP, there are plenty of threads there for you to choose from.
No don't do what you just did.

Either start pointing people for idiotic comments that are not based in facts, which will devolve into political arguments, or simply move it over to PP.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:38 PM   #14
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Really guys?

Try again.
If you can't beat em, delete em.
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Old 07-23-2014, 06:06 PM   #15
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Yea I wish mustang didn't add all that pointless safety equipment and went full aluminum lol stupid engineers
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Old 07-23-2014, 06:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post
No don't do what you just did.

Either start pointing people for idiotic comments that are not based in facts, which will devolve into political arguments, or simply move it over to PP.
So you want to get this thread closed.

As you darn well know one persons facts will be dismissed as garbage by another. Facts need not apply to NASIOC. Too many political hacks here. Now can we get back to talking about the F150 or lets just close it down. I thought actually beating the advertised weight loss was extraordinary.

I bet with the small ecoboost we see over 20mpg city in this thing. THAt is no small feat.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:50 PM   #17
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Now if they could make the Mustang weigh 200+ pounds less, they'd be on to something...
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
So you want to get this thread closed.

As you darn well know one persons facts will be dismissed as garbage by another. Facts need not apply to NASIOC. Too many political hacks here. Now can we get back to talking about the F150 or lets just close it down. I thought actually beating the advertised weight loss was extraordinary.

I bet with the small ecoboost we see over 20mpg city in this thing. THAt is no small feat.
Not at all. I'd like the idiots who bring up idiotic bs to be penalized. Especially when their so called "facts" are opinions, or just flat out mis-truths.

And yes as I posted above F has done an amazing job in being the first mover in using Aluminum so widely. I'd like to see that 20% move over the next 5 years to be going higher and higher.

Other OEMs (Honda for example) are utilizing Aluminum + steel welds. Thats also super interesting.

And FWIW, CAFE requirements drove a lot of this innovation.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:04 AM   #19
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Now this is good news. Let it signal the beginning of the end of the increasing weight trend in vehicles in successive generations. I want this to work, and not just for Ford.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:30 AM   #20
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I'd like to point out that that article claimed the Corvette had an aluminum body. I thought the gag was that it and the car's leaf springs are fiberglass.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:51 AM   #21
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I'd like to point out that that article claimed the Corvette had an aluminum body. I thought the gag was that it and the car's leaf springs are fiberglass.
Caught that too - think they actually meant the chassis or frame.

Now where is the SVT Lightning prototype running around with the TT 5.0 V8 under the hood?
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