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Old 12-23-2011, 01:52 AM   #1
outsiders
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Question "subaru" 5w30 by Motul only in europe?

Is this motul only available in europe? How does it compare to x-clean 5w30?

http://armtek.eu/3669.htm
l
http://www.motul.com/system/product_...RUQ9Y4xzWCKxTQ
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:02 AM   #2
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There's one way to find out....buy some of each, perform used oil analysis on both then you'll know. But....you aren't THAT interested are you?

<--------uses $20 Walmart oil that is superior to both
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:03 AM   #3
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X-clean is thicker with a higher HTHS. X-clean is also C3 while the Subaru oil is C2. Both are mid-SAPS so the ZDDP levels are probably about the same.

See page 5 for C2 and C3 info.
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/fi..._Sequences.pdf

C3 appears to be slightly more cat friendly and better at controlling thickening from soot while C2 appears to be better at fuel economy and controlling oxidative thickening.
Compare the specs here:
http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngi...ToolIntro.html
and keep in mind the disclaimer at the bottom when comparing oil specs with the charts.

-Dennis
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Old 12-23-2011, 12:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
There's one way to find out....buy some of each, perform used oil analysis on both then you'll know. But....you aren't THAT interested are you?

<--------uses $20 Walmart oil that is superior to both
I would be but I haven't seen it available in the states. Any idea where to buy it?
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Old 12-23-2011, 12:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
X-clean is thicker with a higher HTHS. X-clean is also C3 while the Subaru oil is C2. Both are mid-SAPS so the ZDDP levels are probably about the same.

See page 5 for C2 and C3 info.
http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/fi..._Sequences.pdf

C3 appears to be slightly more cat friendly and better at controlling thickening from soot while C2 appears to be better at fuel economy and controlling oxidative thickening.
Compare the specs here:
http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngi...ToolIntro.html
and keep in mind the disclaimer at the bottom when comparing oil specs with the charts.

-Dennis
it sounds like the "subaru" compares more to motul's eco energy line.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outsiders

it sounds like the "subaru" compares more to motul's eco energy line.
Eco-nergy has a lower HTHS and lower viscosity than the Subaru oil, but it is high SAPS because it has the higher API SL levels of ZDDP.

-Dennis
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Old 12-26-2011, 02:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Eco-nergy has a lower HTHS and lower viscosity than the Subaru oil, but it is high SAPS because it has the higher API SL levels of ZDDP.

-Dennis
I was looking at all the motul specs on the canada site and I think the "subaru" motul is relabeled eco-clean.

http://motul-canada.com/en/products/...n_5W30_TDS.pdf.

http://www.motul.com/system/product_...RUQ9Y4xzWCKxTQ
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Old 12-26-2011, 02:23 PM   #8
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I also ran across x-max on the canadian site.

http://motul-canada.com/en/products/...x_5W30_TDS.pdf

Would this line be better than x-clean because of the higher TBN and it also being ester based?
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:50 PM   #9
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Eco-clean does look similar, bit X-max has been discontinued. If you're looking for the ultimate Motul 8100 series oil, it would be the X-lite IMO.

-Dennis
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:57 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Eco-clean does look similar, bit X-max has been discontinued. If you're looking for the ultimate Motul 8100 series oil, it would be the X-lite IMO.

-Dennis
I'm looking for the ultimate 5w30 motul 8100 series I have a line on some x-max. Would you go with that over x-clean?
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outsiders

I'm looking for the ultimate 5w30 motul 8100 series I have a line on some x-max. Would you go with that over x-clean?
Probably. But I would pick X-lite over any of them. High TBN, very strong add pack, highest amount of esters in the 8100 series etc. I believe there's a uoa on 5W-30 over at IWSTI. IIRC, it's not a robust looking oil judging by a uoa, but maybe the overall package (base stocks and additives that don't show up in uoa's) is good. Although if you change your oil at 5,000 intervals or less, or don't need some of the benefits of X-lite in your application, X-max is probably fine. You didn't mention your application though.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 12-27-2011 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:54 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Probably. But I would pick X-lite over any of them. High TBN, very strong add pack, highest amount of esters in the 8100 series etc. I believe there's a uoa on 5W-30 over at IWSTI. IIRC, it's not a robust looking oil judging by a uoa, but maybe the overall package (base stocks and additives that don't show up in uoa's) is good. Although if you change your oil at 5,000 intervals or less, or don't need some of the benefits of X-lite in your application, X-max is probably fine. You didn't mention your application though.

-Dennis
It needs to be 5w30 for warranty requirements and I don't think x-lite comes in a 5w30. I have lifetime free oil changes with dealer on my car for every 5k but I'm not going to have them put their factory oil in. What motul or other 5w30 would work for an unmodified 2012 sti for 5k OCI's?
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:09 PM   #13
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There's not much uoa data on any Motul 5W-30 so it's just a case of trying different ones. I started using X-clean after seeing a good 7.5k run on an STI, but there was no TBN in that example. It's thick but has the lower GF5 levels of ZDDP. I ran Eco-nergy one winter and had a very good uoa on it. It's thin but it's API SL and has higher levels of ZDDP. Does your warranty mention API requirements? Just run Red Line or Motul 300V 5W-30.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 12-27-2011 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:29 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
There's not much uoa data on any Motul 5W-30 so it's just a case of trying different ones. I started using X-clean after seeing a good 7.5k run on an STI, but there was no TBN in that example. It's thick but has the lower GF5 levels of ZDDP. I ran Eco-nergy one winter and had a very good uoa on it. It's thin but it's API SL and has higher levels of ZDDP. Does your warranty mention API requirements? Just run Red Line or Motul 300V 5W-30.

-Dennis
2012 manual says Api sm or sn and gf-4 or gf-5.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outsiders

2012 manual says Api sm or sn and gf-4 or gf-5.
It also says that you may replenish with 5W-40 conventional but that doesn't exist. I could probably dig up an old post here where someone emailed SoA about Red Line and they said it was fine because RL said it was "recommended for" API SM. They even responded with a link to RL's data sheet.

Found it:

Dear Mr. Williams:

Thank you for visiting the Subaru web site and for your message!

The Starburst mark is the ILSAC marking and is usually found with the API ''circle-in-circle marking''. RedLine may not put the ILSAC marking on their label, just the API marking. As long as the RedLine Oil meets the SM and GF-4 requirement, (and the oil change intervals stay the same as recommended in the Warranty and Maintenance booklet, you should be just fine.

FYI, you can view the certifications of redline oils on their web site:

http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf

Thank you for your message and if you have any other questions, do not hesitate to reply to this email.

Sincerely,
SH
Subaru of America, Inc.
Customer/Dealer Services Department
-----------------------------------------------------------
YOUR ORIGINAL MAIL:

I have a 2007 Impreza 2.5i. After seeing the May 2007 Tech Tips, I am a little confused about which oil to be using. The manual mentions requiring the 'New API certification mark (starburst mark) displayed on the container'. The Tech Tips only says that the oil has to meet SM or GF-4 requirements. I am looking at Red Line 5w30, which meets SM and GF-4 requirements. Does this oil fully meet the guidelines for oil for my engine and will it meet the requirements to maintain warranty coverage of my engine?

Thank you for your time

Page 3 of this thread:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1259545

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 12-28-2011 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:16 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
It also says that you may replenish with 5W-40 conventional but that doesn't exist. I could probably dig up an old post here where someone emailed SoA about Red Line and they said it was fine because RL said it was "recommended for" API SM. They even responded with a link to RL's data sheet.

-Dennis

The manual also says replace at next oil change so I can see the dealer using that if they wanted to deny a claim. The wording in the manual leaves a lot of grey area. I guess it all comes down to how the service manager feels that day if he wanted to submit a warranty claim to SOA.
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