Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday September 3, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Tire & Wheel Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Tire & Wheel

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-13-2012, 07:12 PM   #26
M SPEC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 76946
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MidWest
Vehicle:
2010 STI
2005 STI & 1988 911

Default

Thanks, I will back off my lugs, and by the way, I don't think you will get any takers on $20 (there is that whole "hard data" caveat)... just sayn!
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
M SPEC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 07:17 PM   #27
vision.dynamix
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 139955
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Boston
Vehicle:
2015 Subaru STI
Black, like my soul.

Default

That is because there is no HARD DATA that proves a spacer, meeting the criteria I specified, is any more "unsafe" than a wheel directly on the rotor.

The hat of the rotor is, in essence, a spacer, spacing the wheel off of the hub.

On most cars, the lug holes on the rotor is loose, however, the center hole fits snugly against the hub nose. Since the hub nose is long enough to protrude through and allow the wheel to use it also, the rotor itself is a hubcentric, wheelcentric spacer.

Now, is someone going to tell me that Rotors are unsafe?

We're completely ignoring effective wheel offset here..
vision.dynamix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 07:22 PM   #28
M SPEC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 76946
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MidWest
Vehicle:
2010 STI
2005 STI & 1988 911

Default

? continue
M SPEC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 07:47 PM   #29
sc00by4life
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 97135
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Bothell
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M SPEC
? continue
The drivability/effective offset that was originally brought is due to having too wide of a track(a product of spacers) not spacers specifically or stud engagement. Same with bearing life, yet while mathematically is true - there has yet to be any real world proving low offset causing bearing failure.
sc00by4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 08:05 PM   #30
M SPEC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 76946
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MidWest
Vehicle:
2010 STI
2005 STI & 1988 911

Default

When you say drivability, are you saying handling? I recently messaged Perrin regarding their recommended H&R spacers (15mm f and 20mm r) as to handling negatives. They responded with “No negative handling issues” (not truly an exact quote but you get my point). How much concern is there regrding handling for a DD if any.

Last edited by M SPEC; 01-13-2012 at 08:11 PM.
M SPEC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 09:33 PM   #31
i_eat_staples
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 306840
Join Date: Jan 2012
Default

i know a lot of guys in the spec miata community run 10 mm spacers on their race cars to increase their track a bit

i run 10mm on my miata and have zero issues on the track

as long as they are hubcentric and you have enough thread on your lugbolts you wont have a problem. Although i wont comment about anything past a 10mm spacer
i_eat_staples is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 09:42 PM   #32
sc00by4life
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 97135
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Bothell
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M SPEC View Post
When you say drivability, are you saying handling? I recently messaged Perrin regarding their recommended H&R spacers (15mm f and 20mm r) as to handling negatives. They responded with “No negative handling issues” (not truly an exact quote but you get my point). How much concern is there regrding handling for a DD if any.
I would'nt trust a salesman at Perrin. If you want some more solid advice, call Turn In Concepts and ask their opinion. Its a smaller shop, and they have one of the fastest subarus out there.

By significantly widening the track, while you will increase cornering stabilization, you will also promote more understeer that our cars are notorious for. Obviously, depending on how wide you go, there is also a pretty severe tram-lining problem. My car likes to walk all over the road.
sc00by4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 09:53 PM   #33
Fiddy82
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 145484
Join Date: Apr 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Fort Lewis
Vehicle:
2011 Legacy GT
White

Default

I seriously thank you for you post. Nasioc is 90% personal opinion, 7% bull**** and 3% actual fact. For you to come post and get all these so called gurus panties in a bunch just made my day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M SPEC View Post
Gentlemen, you are correct. I do not know you well and that factual information is indeed factual information. You are however missing my initial point. I am merely illustrating the issue that posts are often posted as fact when they are in reality nothing more than opinion supported by nothing more than anecdotal evidence. Let me attempt to illustrate. Our current post is regarding the issue of wheel spacers. Generally when this discussion comes up, the negatives revolve around three major issues: safety, handling and bearing life. Many contend that wheel spacers are a safety hazard, yet I have not read any such post that can quantify such a claim by sighting a spacer failure causing an accident. H&R spacers are made using high quality materials in a precise manufacturing process. Without question there are cheap e-bay models that may be of substandard material and construction and are therefore potential failure components, yet the discussion does not differentiate between the two. The proposed handling issues may be realistic, yet again the position is rarely discussed in the context of, how do you use the car, is it a daily driver or a tracker. Very few of the driving population, including those of us driving STIs and WRXs are truly capable enough to discern many handling nuances. Once again, no data is provided. I see no skid pad comparisons. No track times with spacers and without. Additionally, many of the posting naysayers are themselves driving around with heavily offset aftermarket rims. Lastly bearing life. Again I find interest in the fact that there is no difference in bearing life from those individuals that run spacers, from those that run low + offset wheels, yet this point is often missing from the discussion. Also, I have yet to see the bearing life quantified into actual numbers e.g. does a 10mm spacer reduce bearing life by 15% over the course of 40,000 miles etc. What does this all boil down to? Just a couple of key points I would like to make. First, I am not in any way attempting to cast dispersions on any posters including you that are Specialists and/or Gurus. I am only suggesting that everyone needs to take care in choosing the information one relies upon. Second, as a wise man once said, “If it can’t be expressed in numbers it’s not a fact it’s an opinion.”
Fiddy82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 10:05 PM   #34
sc00by4life
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 97135
Join Date: Sep 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Bothell
Default

^^ someone obviously didn't read the entire thread, let alone 99% of the OTHER threads where these issues (the very ones MSPEC mentioned) are constantly brought up.

Lumping us "gurus" in with one persons opinion (which, since you dont spend much time in this forum….dont really understand where Byz is coming from) is just bad form.

Id be the same as me making the assumption that the vast majority of "scooby newbies" are ****ing retarded. Actually…that part is true.

Id break nasioc up a little better than that. 90% are ricers/morons who don't know their ass from their elbows, 7% being other idiots who agree with them or spout baseless "info" (such as saying spacers have little to no effect on handling characteristics), 1.5% who are genuinely interested in ACTUALLY learning, and 1.5% of us who actually know what we are talking about.

and actually, the Naysayers are who we refer to as the "correct fitment crew" DONT use spacers.

Last edited by sc00by4life; 01-13-2012 at 10:10 PM.
sc00by4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 10:56 PM   #35
Byzantium
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 207826
Join Date: Apr 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Katabatic
Vehicle:
85k 2002 WRX
Correct Fitment Crew #034

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddy82 View Post
I seriously thank you for you post. Nasioc is 90% personal opinion, 7% bull**** and 3% actual fact. For you to come post and get all these so called gurus panties in a bunch just made my day.
My troll radar is going crazy with this post. Ok, I'll give in.

You thank him for his post and then follow it with a complaint about how 90% of NASIOC is personal opinion? Explain why you're thanking someone who has done nothing but offer their own opinion while supporting it on retarded nitpicking and an aggressively hypocritical stance (careful, he might think I'm calling him a hippo this time around ). His 1st order of business was to come into this thread and bash everyone who had already given solid and accurate advice even according to his own admission. This whole argument is based on the fact that people aren't posting enough information. A simplistic answer that at least offers some explanation is more than satisfactory. If the OP wants to know more all he has to do is ask. He's being critical of people because their responses are less than 10,000 words. If someone wants to know why the sky is blue do you tell them it's because blue light scatters more readily than other colors within the visible spectrum or do you write a book on particle and wave theory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sc00by4life View Post
and actually, the Naysayers are who we refer to as the "correct fitment crew" DONT use spacers.
I'm not against all spacers, I'm against their use for aesthetics. If you want to use a small spacer for functional purposes that's fine, but the sizes most people use wouldn't put a dent in how 'flush' a wheel is. The OP wants to use a large spacer for a purpose I'm against, hence the answer that was given.
Byzantium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 01:31 AM   #36
M SPEC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 76946
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MidWest
Vehicle:
2010 STI
2005 STI & 1988 911

Default

Scooby 4 life,
Thanks for the info!
As to the other issues addressed here I am confused. I most certainly apologize for any “bad form” on my part, “ignorance is bliss”. You state that “1.5% of us who actually know what we are talking about” seems to illustrate my exact point, how does someone differentiate the 1.5% from the other 98.5%? This cannot be done by relying on posting titles alone, or can it? You tell me. Several have taken affront to my posting on taking care as to who/whom one trusts with information. With a great degree of redundancy I reiterate, titles on this site do not confirm expertise. If that causes discomfort on some individual’s status, so be it. I advise only caution and increased dialog.
To Byz,
Once again hypo means low! I presume you mean to say hypercritical.
M SPEC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 01:40 AM   #37
M SPEC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 76946
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MidWest
Vehicle:
2010 STI
2005 STI & 1988 911

Default

Scooby4life,
tram-lining problem? Please explain.
M SPEC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 02:16 AM   #38
M SPEC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 76946
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MidWest
Vehicle:
2010 STI
2005 STI & 1988 911

Default

Byz,
I am unsure of posting etiquette but I saw these on your public profile, are these posts in any way referring to you?

Pictures? That mod list doesn't equate to 85 thousand dollars tough guy. Sorry.

TurboXS FMIC with what looks to be an HKS bov? Stock turbo heat shield? Silver 02 wrx with sti interior? I see your car... Even if you bought the car in 2002 for MSRP... you haven't touched 85k into that car. You are nothing more than a horrible troll and I'm calling you out on it. You won't even spend 1k to check out your bad cylinders. A man that has spent 85k into a car should be more than willing to spend that money. You also decide to run bad spark plugs? Admit it. The only money your car has seen is the money its cost you for repairs.

So where is it? I see you keep posting but you are ignoring me asking to see your car you invested 85k into. Let's see it.

I searched through a lot of your posts. You troll. I haven't found any with your car. Link me to a post with your 85k vehicle.

10k posts and none of them are of your car you claim to have 85k invested? You drive a car worth 8k. Gtfo. You have been trolling this site since you joined in 09.

youre a ****** and if you ever talked to people the way you do on the internet your fat ass would get whats comming to you, but you sit behind your layers of potato chips and cokes and type away on the internet because theres nothing anyone can do about it, you are a freaking loser.

???
M SPEC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 02:39 AM   #39
Lrn2Corner
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 246224
Join Date: May 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Chesapeake
Vehicle:
2012 WRX Sedan
12 Rav4 V6

Default

Holy **** the rage this one has!!!!

You actually went through the time to search through his post history to call him out for trolling?
The personal attacks are pointless because all it will do is get you banned. I mean I am not defending the guy buy any means but wouldn't doing the research only to prove him wrong be just as sufficient.

Also what if the guy does have 85k invested in a vehicle that he doesnt go promoting around like an attention whore. You would look fairly stupid.

Rage less next time and dont let a 'troll' as you put it succede in trolling you.
Lrn2Corner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 09:51 AM   #40
M SPEC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 76946
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MidWest
Vehicle:
2010 STI
2005 STI & 1988 911

Default

Lrn2corner,
Point taken! Although it really took no time, I simply clicked on his name and there it was. I did no search history, just want to see if there was anything in his profile that would add credibility to his points (unfortunately there was not). I did not call him a troll or any other names, I simply posted what others have said and phrased it as a question up for denial. Frankly I don’t even know what a troll is, at least in this context. Anyway, you are right and I apologize. It was mean spirited on my part.
M SPEC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 10:20 AM   #41
Lrn2Corner
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 246224
Join Date: May 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Chesapeake
Vehicle:
2012 WRX Sedan
12 Rav4 V6

Default

A troll is someone who tries to get a rise out of someone on the internet any way they can.
Lrn2Corner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 11:41 AM   #42
Byzantium
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 207826
Join Date: Apr 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Katabatic
Vehicle:
85k 2002 WRX
Correct Fitment Crew #034

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M SPEC View Post
So where is it? I see you keep posting but you are ignoring me asking to see your car you invested 85k into. Let's see it.

I searched through a lot of your posts. You troll. I haven't found any with your car. Link me to a post with your 85k vehicle.

10k posts and none of them are of your car you claim to have 85k invested? You drive a car worth 8k. Gtfo. You have been trolling this site since you joined in 09.

youre a ****** and if you ever talked to people the way you do on the internet your fat ass would get whats comming to you, but you sit behind your layers of potato chips and cokes and type away on the internet because theres nothing anyone can do about it, you are a freaking loser.
Let it all out big boy. We're here for you. You have a shoulder you can cry on right here.

Unlike most, I have no need for ego inflating attention by constantly posting what I have done with my car. But since you mentioned it, the guy who called me out on it made a thread about it and ate his own words. Enough so that I added a reference to it in my details to poke fun at him.

And '09? That's silly....

Last edited by Byzantium; 01-14-2012 at 11:49 AM.
Byzantium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 10:31 PM   #43
thorracing160
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 304830
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MN
Vehicle:
2004 STI
White

Default

As I work at the ford dealership we torque all mid size cars to 100 ft/tq and all trucks to 125 ft/tq no matter what. And never have a problem
thorracing160 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 02:15 AM   #44
vision.dynamix
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 139955
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Boston
Vehicle:
2015 Subaru STI
Black, like my soul.

Default

Torque your Subaru to that and tell me what happens
vision.dynamix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 12:05 AM   #45
Twrex2002
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 283490
Join Date: May 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vision.dynamix View Post
Torque your Subaru to that and tell me what happens

I am part of that 1.5% actually trying to learn. What would happen if you torqued that hard to you lugs? I was told by a friend/mechanic thats has been working on cars for a long time to torque to 110.

i am on legacy gt rims with 225/40/r17 tires and was actually thinking about spacers. after reading all of this i may reconcider.
Twrex2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 01:04 AM   #46
04furesterXT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 73223
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Los Angeles
Vehicle:
2009 STI

Default

Better keep some spare lugs handy...
04furesterXT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 01:47 AM   #47
vision.dynamix
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 139955
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Boston
Vehicle:
2015 Subaru STI
Black, like my soul.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twrex2002 View Post
I am part of that 1.5% actually trying to learn. What would happen if you torqued that hard to you lugs? I was told by a friend/mechanic thats has been working on cars for a long time to torque to 110.

i am on legacy gt rims with 225/40/r17 tires and was actually thinking about spacers. after reading all of this i may reconcider.
you need to stop listening to that "mechanic"

Spec on your lug nuts is ~65 ft/lbs.

110 would stretch/snap studs, constantly.
vision.dynamix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 02:36 PM   #48
Jovver
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 107076
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Richfield, Ohio
Vehicle:
'06 WRX STi (WRB)
'06 Outback LTD (WGO/MGM)

Default

I am running 5mm spacers on the front of my car in order for my wheel to clear my Brembos. I am using the standard universal spacer that was provided with the wheels and would like to upgrade to the Ichiba 5mm with the extended studs.

I am using McGard spline drive lug nuts with the summer wheels and with the stock BBs wheels as winter wheels. I was wondering if anyone knows first hand whether or not the extended studs would work with the McGards on my summer (with spacer) and winter (without spacer) setup? If they will work with the spacer but not without, I will just use the spacer with the BBS wheels.
Jovver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 01:45 PM   #49
truwrxtacy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 84786
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado
Vehicle:
2011 STi
SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vision.dynamix View Post
That is because there is no HARD DATA that proves a spacer, meeting the criteria I specified, is any more "unsafe" than a wheel directly on the rotor.

The hat of the rotor is, in essence, a spacer, spacing the wheel off of the hub.

On most cars, the lug holes on the rotor is loose, however, the center hole fits snugly against the hub nose. Since the hub nose is long enough to protrude through and allow the wheel to use it also, the rotor itself is a hubcentric, wheelcentric spacer.

Now, is someone going to tell me that Rotors are unsafe?

We're completely ignoring effective wheel offset here..
can you tell me which company would offer this Hub-Centric + Wheel-Centric spacers? I've seen alot of Hub-Centric ones but not Wheel-Centric ones.
thanks
truwrxtacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 01:49 PM   #50
vision.dynamix
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 139955
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Boston
Vehicle:
2015 Subaru STI
Black, like my soul.

Default

I know for a fact the Ichiba ones are Hubcentric+Wheelcentric, at least in the 10mm size.
vision.dynamix is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aftermarket steering wheel? Yay or Nay ? IllNastyImpreza Interior & Exterior Modification 8 06-17-2008 03:54 PM
JDM wheel on a euro car. yay or nay!? awd_dreamin General Community 20 03-16-2008 11:07 AM
Painted me wheels! Time attack style sdr's on aspen white. Yay or nay? sonic03rex Member's Car Gallery 99 11-01-2006 08:13 PM
Speedline wheels and stock lug nuts, yay or nay? Ziggyrama Tire & Wheel 8 04-10-2006 08:54 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.