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Old 12-10-2011, 08:57 PM   #1
Kill3rWill
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Default Opensource 16 bit boost limit

Hello guys, first real post, and yes I've searched.
So anyways I plan on getting an opensource tune and getting rid of my utec, from what I have gathered in a thread from a few years ago, the was a hard limit on boost somewhere around 24.75 psi. Now I have an 05 Wrx with a 20g and am stuck at ~22 until a map sensor is included. But I would like to be able to run more than 24.75. Someone had also said there was a possibility of the maps being found and tweaked, but this was years ago. So basically can I safely run over 24.75 and retain boost cut, etc.
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:20 AM   #2
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You could probably change your MAP offset so the Map Sensor is reading lower then actual pressure. so at 24 psi it reads 20 or so. I guess it depends on how high you really want to go with it.

Also it could be a situation where only the Target is limited to 24.75 and fuel cut could be raised beyond that. Also I am not sure if you could add to the 24.75 Target by adding more in the ATM pressure Compensations. It would be easy to experiment with this.
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:23 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply.
So I'm assuming there is still no way around this without some trickery.
If I offset it, won't that throw off my entire map? Especially affecting light throttle and idle? And also I'm not sure what ATM pressure is. I also wouldn't think you could set the boost cut higher than the 24.75 limit, but maybe they aren't related. But regardless I meant to say I will be keeping my utec, for a few reasons, FF and LC, so I can retain its own boost cut, but using the stock ecu's boost control to keep on target
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kill3rWill View Post
Thanks for the reply.
So I'm assuming there is still no way around this without some trickery.
If I offset it, won't that throw off my entire map? Especially affecting light throttle and idle? And also I'm not sure what ATM pressure is. I also wouldn't think you could set the boost cut higher than the 24.75 limit, but maybe they aren't related. But regardless I meant to say I will be keeping my utec, for a few reasons, FF and LC, so I can retain its own boost cut, but using the stock ecu's boost control to keep on target
Well the target boost table only goes up to 24.75 but the fuel cut goes higher up to 1267 PSI Absolute. Using the atmospheric pressure compensation you may be able to raise target above 24.75.
Utec's never seem to run very nicely in comparison to a flashed tune. I am not a fan of piggybacks.
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:48 PM   #5
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Well what I plan on doing is using the stock ecu for fueling and timing and utec for its qualities, higher boost cut, being one of them, among some others. But I agree that it isn't the greatest, but the utec is SO easy to tune. I'm also considering saving the headache of map sensors, and just run 22 on daily tune and no boost cut 26-27 when I race, and just keep an eye on boost levels. Dang 16 bit ecu seems like a limiting factor at this power/boost level. any tips on installing a map? Calibration tips etc? Was considering gm for its price
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:51 PM   #6
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Also any experience with modded stock injectors. I'm having a lot of trouble getting fuel trims inline at low loads, it seems to swing wildly but never beyond the 25 limit.
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:53 PM   #7
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For the map sensor just save yourself some time and get one with known calibrations and plugs in directly like an omni. They aren't too expensive about $100.

I have tuned alot of modded injectors and they are generally pretty stable. They aren't id1000's but they arent bad and pretty easy to tune.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:44 PM   #8
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I think it's the utec being finicky. But the omni looks nice but I don't see one for wrx's. Any other options?
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:29 PM   #9
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I do this on my WRX....i have an AEM 3.5 bar MAP sensor and i offest the scaling so by 5.25 psi so that 24.75 psi was actually 30psi.

But i think the best solution to this issue is to just utilize a hallman mbc and a boost gauge and take the MAP sensor completely out of the equation.

i dont really think you should even go through any of this hassle with a 20g. really not worth it.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:28 AM   #10
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Well as of right now I can control whatever amount of boost I want, i ran 27 lbs yesterday for instance, but my whole point of this was to retain some kind of boost cut, rendering either the map change or manual boost controller useless. My utec handles boost quite easily, just no boost cut over the stock MAP ability, which isn't safe
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Old 12-14-2011, 01:53 PM   #11
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are you sure the ECU is actually controlling it?

Post a log....normally if you go above 23 psi on a pre-08 ecu the wgdc will stop changing because the ecu can no longer calculate a boost error.

Boost error is calculated from the MAP sensor, so once the MAP sesnor is maxed you can no longer get a boost error. And no more boost error means no more turbo dynamics. No more TD's means no more WGDC changes.
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Old 12-14-2011, 04:24 PM   #12
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I'm not controlling anything with the stock ecu, except fueling, but utec adjusts that too. I'm using the utec for boost, but want to move to using the stock ecu.
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Old 12-14-2011, 04:51 PM   #13
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^ well the utec is controlling the boost thru the ecu. the limits still apply. if the MAP sensor is maxed the utec cant magically make it read....unless the utec has its own 3bar MAP sensor built in.

Also, i told juanmedina to research this....the 08+ MAP sensors are 3bar, which will get you up to 29psi....so call subaru and see if it is a direct replacement.
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:38 PM   #14
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The utec is in full control of boost past whatever crossover point I tell it to. I can run 30 psi if I want, and am running 25 all around as we speak. Data logs show 24.3~ when maxed out, but my boost gauge indicates otherwise. . And I can get any map sensor, but even the newer Subaru ones I'd would still have to calibrate, but being able to bolt it into the manifold would be nice, good idea. I don't think anyone has the calibration settings for it though
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Old 12-14-2011, 06:43 PM   #15
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I have the MAP calibration.....i mean you can just pull them out of an 08+ rom.

Can you log the boost, target boost, WGDC and turbo dynamics for one of your pulls? I have a feeling your gauge is just reading higher than the ECU. When my ecu is reading 26psi my boost gauge says 30psi.
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:28 PM   #16
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I don't think you understand, no offense. My map stops reading at 24.3 ish, looses resolution at 23, I kept turning up the boost to 25, using my aem gauge as a reference. I don't have a tactrix cable or anything yet. But data logging through the utec, it just always shows 24.3 iirc. I'm not using the stock ecu for anything but it's base fuel map. Utec is full stand alone on timing and boost if you set it to, which I do. So therefore any signals the stock ecu puts out to the solenoid, are by passed. But if the 08+ fit into my 05 manifold I'm sold
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:29 PM   #17
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And I have hit 27 psi on my aem gauge before, so I know that it doesn't stop added wgdc. It's whatever numbers I set in utec
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:17 AM   #18
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well....how about you just log the boost target, boost, wgdc and turbo dynamics and see what they're actually doing.

your boost gauge means nothing. its easy to make a car overboost. that doesnt mean you're controlling anything.
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Old 12-15-2011, 07:56 AM   #19
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I guess you don't understand how the utec boost control works. There is no target, you pretty much manually set the the actual wastegate duty. So in the logs it shows the duty cycle, which is whatever I set it to. And no, I'm not over boosting if I'm running a steady 25 psi from 4-7 grand. I have complete control over boost, I can still add more and take it away.
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:40 AM   #20
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Anyway, all that stuff is besides the point. does anyone know anything about 08+ map sensors fitting into 02-07 wrx's? Will it fit/ work?
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:09 PM   #21
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so the utec completely does away with the turbo dynamics, and initial and max wgdc tables? and just has 1 wgdc table?

and no target boost....so it just always runs the same wgdc and doesnt pull wgdc for overboost situations?

and dont take my questions the wrong way. im just trying to learn. i havent played with a utec in ~8 years. I just cant believe they would set the boost control up without any safety features.

Last edited by Phatron; 12-15-2011 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:48 PM   #22
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Yea now you're getting it. But there are some safety features, you can have boost cut be whatever your map sensor can read, which is good, seemingly because the stock ecu only let's the cut be so high. So utec could boost cut at 40 psi if you choose. And yes, only one map, based on throttle position and rpm, so full throttle it will always run whatever is set to be the wgdc. But it does lack compensation for over or underboost. Which sucks because in higher gears I get boost creep. Which is why I'd like to switch to opensource. The utec basically does do away with everything and directly controls the ebcs. And I wasn't trying to be mean If I came off that way, I enjoy teaching, and learning
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:54 PM   #23
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It just doesnt make sense that the utec could boost cut at 40psi.....the stock MAP sensor is maxed so how is the utec determining you're at 40psi? I emailed txs to see what they say
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Old 12-15-2011, 01:39 PM   #24
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No. I said it could do that for instance, if your map sensor could read high enough. My map sensor max's out at 24 so boost cut set any higher than 24 won't work because the utec will never see higher than 24.
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Old 12-15-2011, 10:38 PM   #25
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The utec has a gain control feature as well as "duty cycle"

If you are creeping in higher gears you can actually tune your map for a certain load column such as 80% or so. The. Use the 90-100% column as your "high gear" safety net. I see too many tuners just shove a high number all over the boost map in the utec and leave it not actually tuning the map.

Ron, if you have an aftermarket map installed, i believe the utec will follow it up to 50psi.

The utec is still a great unit, the sd feature is flawless and the dumbed down design of the timing board is easy as pie
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