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Old 01-04-2012, 11:24 AM   #1
danny_d19
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Default Data logs from 05 STi, Stage 2 OTS

Using the COBB Stage 2 OTS map, wondering if you guys can review these logs to see if everything is OK. The feedback knock seems high under load, worries me a bit, please let me know your thoughts. Using 93 octane COBB stage 2 map, use only 94 octane Chevron gas.

2005 STi, 160,000 KM
CNT 3" bellmouth catted dp
SRS 3" cat back
COBB SF intake with air box

3rd gear pull:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...0ZUalc0eHZzb1E

4th gear pull:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2RuNjBJcjVrX2c

Also took this one cruising up a hill in 6th gear, looks like DAM value fluctuates:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...0UwaGhUTWdDb0E
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Last edited by danny_d19; 01-04-2012 at 02:51 PM. Reason: added fuel info
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:27 PM   #2
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danny_d19 View Post
Using the COBB Stage 2 OTS map, wondering if you guys can review these logs to see if everything is OK. The feedback knock seems high under load, worries me a bit, please let me know your thoughts.

2005 STi, 160,000 KM
CNT 3" bellmouth catted dp
SRS 3" cat back
COBB SF intake with air box

3rd gear:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

4th gear:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0
You'll need to set the permissions for each log to public in order for anyone to view the logs. Which octane map are you using and what octane gas are you putting in the car?

Bill
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:29 PM   #3
danny_d19
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Sorry, first time uploading data logs. Try it now
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:46 PM   #4
danny_d19
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I should note I'm in Canada and am using the 93 octane stage 2 map, I use only 94 octane fuel.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:43 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by danny_d19 View Post
I should note I'm in Canada and am using the 93 octane stage 2 map, I use only 94 octane fuel.
There's definitely an issue here. For what I've seen, the 94 octane in Canada does not seem to have the same knock resistance as even the 93 octane here in the U.S. So, it might be a good idea to reflash the 91 map and see if things improves. Some of your long-term fuel trims (A/F Learning 1) are borderline extreme, which may indicate a post-MAF leak (possibly a boost leak) or issue with front o2 or MAF. I would get a pressure/smoke test done of the intake tract to rule that out.

Bill
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:08 AM   #6
danny_d19
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Thanks for the suggestions Bill, much appreciated.

So it would be OK to run the 91 map and still use 94 octane gas? At least just for a little while to do some more logs?
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:39 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by danny_d19 View Post
Thanks for the suggestions Bill, much appreciated.

So it would be OK to run the 91 map and still use 94 octane gas? At least just for a little while to do some more logs?
Yes, it isn't a problem. You could run it like that permanently like that. It is not OK to run a map that is set up for an octane higher than you are using, but it is perfectly fine to run a map for a lower octane than what you are using (actually gives you more of a margin on the knock front).

Bill
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:43 PM   #8
danny_d19
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Good to know.

Do you think the feedback knock occurances are related to the DAM dropping from 1.0? In the first 2 logs the DAM stays at 1.0 even with -2/-4 knock values, but in the 3rd log it drops from 1.0 to 0.25 and then to 0 with no knock. Any ideas?
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:00 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by danny_d19 View Post
Good to know.

Do you think the feedback knock occurances are related to the DAM dropping from 1.0? In the first 2 logs the DAM stays at 1.0 even with -2/-4 knock values, but in the 3rd log it drops from 1.0 to 0.25 and then to 0 with no knock. Any ideas?
Feedback knock will never impact the DAM. The DAM is separate from feedback knock so one does not influence the other.

Bill
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:17 AM   #10
danny_d19
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Here is a 4th gear log since running the Stage 2 91 octane map as suggested, feedback knock is still the same.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FE1bGJKRy1PaVE

I'm beginning to think it may have something to do with our winter blend gas, since it has more ethanol added. Other than not going WOT at all is there anything else I can do to prevent the knock? Getting a protuned "winter map" isn't really an option since there are no tuners in my area.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:44 AM   #11
Cobb Tuning
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Originally Posted by danny_d19 View Post
Here is a 4th gear log since running the Stage 2 91 octane map as suggested, feedback knock is still the same.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FE1bGJKRy1PaVE

I'm beginning to think it may have something to do with our winter blend gas, since it has more ethanol added. Other than not going WOT at all is there anything else I can do to prevent the knock? Getting a protuned "winter map" isn't really an option since there are no tuners in my area.
The best thing to do would be to go to our most conservative map, which would be the ACN91. Additionally, you can also run the low wastegate (LWG) version of the map, which will reduce boost (you are on the borderline of overboosting in being a tad over your target). You can find all the maps here, including the LWG map:
http://accessecu.com/accessport/suba...SF-Intake.html

Bill
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:08 PM   #12
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edited

Last edited by danny_d19; 05-31-2012 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:26 AM   #13
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Having some more issues recently with feedback knock and the DAM value dropping. Usually the DAM will only go down to 0.5 for a few minutes then back up to 1, but today it dropped to 0 and stayed there. Went for a drive a few hours later and didn't change.

Took a quick log in 2nd-3rd-4th, not WOT. I think I may have an intake/boost leak? Any thoughts?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...TVSb0ZaZ2lPcEE
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:43 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by danny_d19 View Post
Having some more issues recently with feedback knock and the DAM value dropping. Usually the DAM will only go down to 0.5 for a few minutes then back up to 1, but today it dropped to 0 and stayed there. Went for a drive a few hours later and didn't change.

Took a quick log in 2nd-3rd-4th, not WOT. I think I may have an intake/boost leak? Any thoughts?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...TVSb0ZaZ2lPcEE
The DAM dropping to zero (or dropping other than the after a map reflash/AP install/ECU reset/disconnecting car's battery) is a serious problem. You'll have to run down the line of potential mechanical issues. Since you have some borderline long-term fuel trims, you can start with a pressure test of the intake tract. From there, since you have some good mileage, I would look at replacing the front o2 and MAF sensor.

You should have reflashed the 91ACN map. If not, I would do that now and also do not do any more wide open throttle (or any aggressive throttle) runs.

Other potential issues includes something rattling in the engine bay (ex. a loose heatshield) that the knock sensor is picking up (i.e. false knock). An engine with a busted ringland or other internal damage can also cause the DAM to drop to zero (compression/leak-down test would rule this out).

Bill
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:14 AM   #15
danny_d19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
The DAM dropping to zero (or dropping other than the after a map reflash/AP install/ECU reset/disconnecting car's battery) is a serious problem. You'll have to run down the line of potential mechanical issues. Since you have some borderline long-term fuel trims, you can start with a pressure test of the intake tract. From there, since you have some good mileage, I would look at replacing the front o2 and MAF sensor.

You should have reflashed the 91ACN map. If not, I would do that now and also do not do any more wide open throttle (or any aggressive throttle) runs.

Other potential issues includes something rattling in the engine bay (ex. a loose heatshield) that the knock sensor is picking up (i.e. false knock). An engine with a busted ringland or other internal damage can also cause the DAM to drop to zero (compression/leak-down test would rule this out).

Bill
Thanks for the info Bill.

So my best course of action would be to do the pressure test the intake, then from there check out the front o2 and maf?

I'm seeing no symptoms of a cracked ringland, so I'm hoping that is not the case. I'm going to swap on a buddies MAF from his 05 STi tonight and see if anything changes. Will swapping to his MAF show any immediate changes in a data log? Or will the A/F values take a while to change?
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:45 AM   #16
Cobb Tuning
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Originally Posted by danny_d19 View Post
Thanks for the info Bill.

So my best course of action would be to do the pressure test the intake, then from there check out the front o2 and maf?

I'm seeing no symptoms of a cracked ringland, so I'm hoping that is not the case. I'm going to swap on a buddies MAF from his 05 STi tonight and see if anything changes. Will swapping to his MAF show any immediate changes in a data log? Or will the A/F values take a while to change?
MAF sensor is probably the least likely here because your airflow values look reasonable and the long-term trims are pulling fuel. Generally, MAF sensor will underreport airflow when it is bad/contaminated, resulting in postive extreme fuel trims and lower than normal reported airflow. But, considering how critical the sensor is, if you have high mileage on an older car, it is worth considering replacing.

Long-term fuel trims will take some time to accurately reflect a change. A week of normal driving should be sufficient. You'll want to reset the ECU if you fix something that may have been impacting the trims and then do your week of driving. The most likely cause in your case is probably an intake tract leak followed by front o2 sensor.

Your long-term fuel trims are borderline, so there may not be anything serious or it may not be the actual cause of the dropping DAM. Hard to say - but that is a place to start.

Bill
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:51 AM   #17
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Good to know, I will start with an intake track leak test and look into doing a compression/leak down test. Thanks Bill
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:19 AM   #18
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Well I found that my turbo inlet hose is barely clamped to the inlet, tried tightening the clamp and it was just pulling the hose off the inlet. I will be fixing this right away, or buying a new hose.

Bill, would a Perrin turbo inlet hose be compatible with a Cobb OTS stage 2 map?
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:15 AM   #19
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Well I found that my turbo inlet hose is barely clamped to the inlet, tried tightening the clamp and it was just pulling the hose off the inlet. I will be fixing this right away, or buying a new hose.

Bill, would a Perrin turbo inlet hose be compatible with a Cobb OTS stage 2 map?
Yes, an aftermarket turbo inlet is within the realm of acceptable modifications for the stage 2 OTS map.

Bill
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:31 AM   #20
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Well since my last update I've installed a new Perrin turbo inlet hose, reflashed to the stage 2 91 LWG map, did an intake pressure test and found a small leak in the vacuum hose going to the BCS (fixed), and changed the front o2.

Still getting knock at WOT (I really only go WOT to take logs), and the DAM drops fairly often (and then goes back up shortly after).

Managed to get the DAM dropping in a log today (I was in 6th gear going up a hill):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...XdzR0UyRVYtY0E

After it went back up a couple minutes later, I took a log of just cruising in 6th gear for a while, it's a bit long but there's a bunch of FKL throughout (lots near the bottom), what does this mean?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FFRNnBzVUNzb2c

Also did a quick run through the gears later on

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...TRyX3dMRU1GbEE

Still need to do a leakdown/compression test, but any thoughts on these?
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