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Old 01-07-2012, 07:55 PM   #1
cosseywrx
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Default hybrid ebcs+mbc

Anyone running this setup? i have the gs ebcs and bout to buy a hallman.

Just curious on peeps thoughts and possible pics on setups.
Ive read most the thread on it
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Old 01-07-2012, 08:55 PM   #2
snowdrift86
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Pretty sure running the mbc will defeat the ebc.
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:14 PM   #3
cosseywrx
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The ebcs runs everything under WOT then the mbc will takeover at WOT.
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:22 PM   #4
QwikEVO
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Plasti-Dip is for TOOLS

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Old 01-07-2012, 10:07 PM   #5
dsmkid
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Do you have a link to the thread you've been reading?
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:13 PM   #6
JesseL
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There was a thread here in AKIC awhile back about it, went looking for it, just didn't care enough to stick with finding it after 5 mins or so..
The big thread about it that was started years ago.. well couldn't find that either, but my work filter rapes nasioc
I run they hybrid setup, as I said over on Fbks forums.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2181805
Theres that one, I'll keep searching for the other one
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:25 PM   #7
QwikEVO
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So what supposedly is the benefit?

If you're not in WOT, why is having a different kind of boost controller better?

I understand dual-stage boost controllers, but this is crazy.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:31 PM   #8
JesseL
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Still looking for the thread, I'm not the expert, the tuner suggested it, gave some good supporting reasons that I should do it. I'm not going to even attempt to re-type or re-explain them, cause I'll prolly say it wrong then get nit-picked and e-torn apart.

I read the tread, (that I still can't find) seamed 'ligit', was a relatively cheap mod, did it, car built boost faster, was more steady boost pressure @ max (via datalogs), no complaints.

I don't try and preach it, or that everyone should convert… It makes sense in my head, I understand it just enough for myself, not to re-explain it to someone else.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:33 PM   #9
07wrx84
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That's what i run. I love it. There is a thread on this subject bro.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:34 PM   #10
07wrx84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QwikEVO
So what supposedly is the benefit?

If you're not in WOT, why is having a different kind of boost controller better?

I understand dual-stage boost controllers, but this is crazy.
No not crazy. Think of it as magical lol
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:35 PM   #11
07wrx84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdrift86
Pretty sure running the mbc will defeat the ebc.
Wrong..
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:35 PM   #12
JesseL
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There is the big thread about it, 1st post date of 2004, lol, jebus.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602674
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:41 PM   #13
07wrx84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseL
There is the big thread about it, 1st post date of 2004, lol, jebus.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602674
^^^ this
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:49 PM   #14
QwikEVO
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Guess I'll worry about this when I actually have a turbo that has lag.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:50 PM   #15
kayetealynn
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I ran it on my wrx. Theory is it prevents overboosting in wot sitautions with the mbc but still lets you control partial throttle boost through the ebcs.

Worked fine for me.. will continue after my car is up and running again.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:53 PM   #16
QwikEVO
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I'm just still confused. If you have a EBC set up properly, it shouldn't overboost in the first place.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:02 PM   #17
cosseywrx
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Datalogs show otherwise. The low temps here are hard on the WG. Basically i bought the ebcs to fix this and it only slightly helped. It works fine at DD. But WOT its overboosting and WG numbers are all over. Mbc takes over at WOT and gives you that set boost number you put it at. Read the thread for more info.

Or search phatbotti tuning threads
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:24 PM   #18
P3Auto
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Boost control tuning on Subarus can be a bit confusing and hard to sort out these problems. I can say however with a the 3 port setup you have IF its plumbed properly you should have zero issues with controlling the boost. We have installed and tuned dozens of them and the only times there are problems is when other factors come into play. Other factors may be improper install, boost leaks, waste gate actuator issues, waste gate physical limits, turbo physical limits, worn turbo, etc.

In terms of temps and enviroment varibles there are tables built into the tune that are there to compensate for these temperature variables. So if your numbers are all over it because the tune is requesting the duty cylces. In other words the logs show your numbers all over and these numbers come from the ECU not the solenoid or the wastegate.

Heres a quick tip...If your target boost is too high for an rpm range then the ECU will over shoot at first then when the turbo finally catches up it will pull out too much duty on the WG and under boost then over compensate again to catch up. The 3port systems are VERY fast and you have to adjust the turbo boost control tables for the ECU to understand this. Smooth your target boost tables and even adjust the rpm range to fit the shape of your boost curve in higher gears. Adjust the range that the ECU can compensate for over and under boost conditions.

The hybrid systems as stated by another post her are typically used to protect against over boost, like a backup system. Heres the bottom line, if you can make your boost targets hit with an MBC (inside a little ballbearing and a spring) then you can get the same results with a properly tuned EBCS.

If your tuner or you would like to PM or email us we will be happy to help out and discuss what tables to tweak a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosseywrx View Post
Datalogs show otherwise. The low temps here are hard on the WG. Basically i bought the ebcs to fix this and it only slightly helped. It works fine at DD. But WOT its overboosting and WG numbers are all over. Mbc takes over at WOT and gives you that set boost number you put it at. Read the thread for more info.

Or search phatbotti tuning threads
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:38 PM   #19
Alaskan EJ20
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it works well, especially during 4th and 5th gear pulls where the ebcs under stock ecu control cant be adjusted based on rpm and gear.

IE: Stock ECU with EBCS : in 3rd gear at 100% TPS (trottle position) and at 4000 rpms it will use 68% WGDC to achive you target boost with out over boosting. And in 5th gear at 100% TPS and at 4000 rpms it will use the same 68% WGDC (because thats how the stock ECU works) and most likely you see a spike because of engine load and time lapse.

With EBCS and MBCS. The idea is at 100% TPS you use a WGDC value of 0% so pressure is directed back to the wastegate actuator but by running a MBCS in that line you can adjust to desired target boost without spiking or lacking your target value.

Last edited by Alaskan EJ20; 01-08-2012 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:05 PM   #20
cosseywrx
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I think i would waste more in gas as apose to just spending the money on a mbc to fix it out right.

Thanks for the offer tho
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:07 PM   #21
P3Auto
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@Cossey -- Was just offering email advice or phone support no charge I realize your in Fairbanks. If using the MBC is working then keep with it.



Keep in mind that defeating the ECU control of boost is in fact removing a safety system away from the car. There are times when things go wrong and when the ECU has lost the ability to remove boost and put the car into a limp mode, well bad things happen to motors especially stock ones with bigger turbos.

The stock ECU boost control is capable of learning trims for boost control within reason. If the tune is right the targets are hit in any gears without over or underboost.

Early 16bit ECU systems do lack in boost control to a point but usually with some work you can get them dialed in as well. Early WRX guys found this out and I think that is where alot of the MBC tune methods came from.

Later 32bit ECU systems continued to improve and some later years started to recognize gears based on rpm and speed inputs for learning trims. We have had a 100% success rate tuning 32bit systems (2.5wrx and STI) with a GS 3port EBCS. All targets hit in all gears(when physically possible) and no over boost.

I'm not really saying one method wins over another and I realize there IS a time and place for MBC and or stand alone boost control. I just don't like hearing that you can't make the stock ECU control boost reliably and properly for most streetable setups out there.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:15 PM   #22
Alaskan EJ20
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Seth, good point about saftey.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:17 PM   #23
cosseywrx
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shoot me your email and i can send my most recent log. its a full 2nd gear pull with my gs ebcs. i dont have a mbc hooked up yet.

i will also send a list of my supporting mods
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:31 PM   #24
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seth@p3auto.com


Send me a snap shot of your boost control tables(all of them) or send me the tune if your tuner is ok with that. Also check to be sure you installed the EBCS exactly as grimspeed instructs for your application. If you installed another way please diagram or describe.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:34 PM   #25
cosseywrx
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its installed as the VIDEO they have and all zip tied in!
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