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Old 01-10-2012, 10:12 AM   #1
dolosolow
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Default Shredded timing belt, need HELP!

So a few days ago while heading home I noticed the car's temp was a little high (slightly overheating) so for precaution I slowly started to put the car off to the side. Then I noticed the smell of something burning, so 'I' decided to turn the car off and push it the rest of the way into a parking lot. A few minutes after letting the car sit to cool down, I attempted to turn the car on but with no success, it cranks but nothing else. The next day having the car parked in front of my house, I decided to look around, eventually I opened the timing belt cover and noticed the belt was shredded. The belt still does have tension. This is where I'm stuck, what next?

Car info:
WRX sti version 8 swap, catback, and intake (34k miles on engine)

nice way to start off the new year
thanks for the help though



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Old 01-10-2012, 10:35 AM   #2
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I wouldn't try to start it again until you've removed the timing belt and inspected the idlers, etc. You may have got lucky and not damaged any valves, but that belt looks nasty.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:47 AM   #3
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I would assume that something seized, possibly the water pump. I'd take off the belt and check the pump plus other pulleys.

If the pump has seized, I'd "search" to find whether that could cause other issues - I have no idea!

Then replace whatever is needed, put on a new belt, and either run a compression test or just cross my fingers and try to start it.
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:19 PM   #4
dolosolow
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I'm not going to make another attempt at starting the car. I've heard if you do this a few times you will have a greater chance to damage the valves. I'm planning on changing the timing belt and then proceed with a compression test. How does this sound? or should I try something else?

* i'll keep my fingers crossed throughout the testing.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:20 PM   #5
some dude
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Would a seized up water pump effect the timing belt in any way tho? It would have to effect the crank pulley in order bung up a timing belt?

I have 113k on my WRX and i have yet to change my belt. I have called a few shops around town and one said $775ish for new everything, gaskets, tensioners, and a new water pump. The dealer said $700ish for all that minus the new water pump.

I asked the woman on the phone why no water pump and she said that they don't usually recommend or see the need to replace the water pump until the 2nd timing belt replacement. I have been diligent about replacing coolant every 30k so maybe the OEM pump would be in good enough condition. Has anyone else who's done the timing belt gotten a new water pump?



sorry for the OT

Last edited by some dude; 01-10-2012 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolosolow View Post
I'm not going to make another attempt at starting the car. I've heard if you do this a few times you will have a greater chance to damage the valves. I'm planning on changing the timing belt and then proceed with a compression test. How does this sound? or should I try something else?

* i'll keep my fingers crossed throughout the testing.
Put a breaker bar on the crank and turn the engine by hand to find what has seized up. You are going to need to do this to line your cams up anyway. Then replace the belt and idlers, and water pump if it is the problem.
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Old 01-11-2012, 04:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolosolow View Post
I'm not going to make another attempt at starting the car. I've heard if you do this a few times you will have a greater chance to damage the valves. I'm planning on changing the timing belt and then proceed with a compression test. How does this sound? or should I try something else?

* i'll keep my fingers crossed throughout the testing.
Change ALL the things... and make sure that you don't have a bent timing cover or other chronic problem that is putting stress on the belt. If you are changing idler pulleys, make sure you get the double bearing caged ones - the "green" ones that come with the cheaper gates kit are OK, but not quire as high quality as OEM.


If something seized, I'd disassemble that part and check the general area to see if the problem was external or internal.

If you still have tension on the belt and no evidence of burned or scraped teeth material on pulleys (evidence of sliding belt) compression test anc count yourself lucky...
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:15 AM   #8
leecea
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Would a seized up water pump effect the timing belt in any way tho? It would have to effect the crank pulley in order bung up a timing belt?
It is just a guess as to what might have happened, based on the temp going up and the rubber burning on the back of the belt. I have no idea how likely it is for a pump to seize, but any seized pulley will effect the belt.

BTW, I did not change water pumps on my minivan when I did the belt, and I've made it to 165K so far. Most likely I will not change it in my WRX when I do the belt in the spring. I'm willing to take the chance
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:38 PM   #9
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I had this happen twice.

First time, belt was ripped up but didnt snap. It was rubbing against the edge of a broken idler puller. All the bearings inside were gone. Looked exactly like the way your belt looks.

2nd time

my belt shredded on the freeway, due to a faulty idler pulley again, bunch of ball bearings all over the place. 2 exhaust valves bent but im back on the road..

Hopefully nothing else is ruined.
replace whatever you can replace in that area.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:04 PM   #10
dolosolow
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This is great, just my luck. So wait your entire block was ruined or just the heads? and around how much did you spend to get back up and running?
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:23 PM   #11
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Engine was perfectly fine. Just the 2 exhaust valves were bent.

Cost me about 3000 to get back running.. it was a sad christmas.. happen few yrs back.

hopefully its a faulty idler for you. Piece of junk part.. lol

let us know what it is when you find out..
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:13 PM   #12
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I had an idler seize on me once. Best of luck to you.

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Old 01-12-2012, 01:12 AM   #13
dolosolow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav1180 View Post
Engine was perfectly fine. Just the 2 exhaust valves were bent.

Cost me about 3000 to get back running.. it was a sad christmas.. happen few yrs back.

hopefully its a faulty idler for you. Piece of junk part.. lol

let us know what it is when you find out..
3000? did you replace the engine? If my valves are bent can't I just rebuild the heads (get them machined)?
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:15 AM   #14
dolosolow
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As for kris, thanks. I seriously had no clue that this type of thing can happen to an engine with so little miles on it. All in all, I'm slowly turning away from subbies, I love them but they are too much of a headache.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:45 PM   #15
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Had you messed with the timing belt or anything in the area recently? When was the last time it was accessed?
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:15 AM   #16
dolosolow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by some dude View Post
Had you messed with the timing belt or anything in the area recently? When was the last time it was accessed?
Nope never messed with the belt or anything around that area, it just turned three months that I got this engine swap. As when was it last accessed? I really don't know the engine is JDM.
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolosolow View Post
Nope never messed with the belt or anything around that area, it just turned three months that I got this engine swap. As when was it last accessed? I really don't know the engine is JDM.
You don't really know that it has 34k miles on it then. The first thing I would recommend doing when installing an engine with unknown miles (the importers are always estimating the mileage on a basic formula of age x average miles driven in the country) is change the belt, idlers, and water pump while its out of the car. I would say you got lucky though that it didn't throw the belt or jump teeth!
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:30 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Kris.is.awesome View Post
I had an idler seize on me once. Best of luck to you.

If any idler is going to fail, it's that one! Most mechanics or owners will decide not replace idlers when doing a belt and I think it is a problem waiting to happen. If you were on a budget and wanted to go cheap, at least replace the geared idler and the tiny one.

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Old 01-15-2012, 02:43 AM   #19
dolosolow
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Originally Posted by uberspeed View Post
You don't really know that it has 34k miles on it then. The first thing I would recommend doing when installing an engine with unknown miles (the importers are always estimating the mileage on a basic formula of age x average miles driven in the country) is change the belt, idlers, and water pump while its out of the car. I would say you got lucky though that it didn't throw the belt or jump teeth!
Well I'm not completely sure it jumped teeth yet, tomorrow we are planning on taking a quick look into it, before sending it off to get the idlers, belt, pump changed. All in all, if the belt was to have jumped teeth does this mean my engine is a complete goner? or can I send the heads to get machined?

thanks
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:17 PM   #20
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From the worn melted look of the outside of the belt my guess is one of the smooth idlers or water pump is seized. The belt also looks like it separated between the inner and outer layers and shifted over to one side.

If you skipped some teeth you may have valve damage and just need headwork.
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:58 PM   #21
dolosolow
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Just finished changing the timing belt, all went good, the car started right up. Thankfully nothing got damaged. I found out that just about all the pulleys, and water pump seized up. One pulley was so bad that it came apart once we removed the old belt and the ball bearings went everywhere. Water pump got burned marks cause of the heat.







Again, thankfully I'm back up and running, and in good time cause I start spring semester on wed.
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Old 01-15-2012, 07:47 PM   #22
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Go buy some lottery tickets!
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:24 PM   #23
dolosolow
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I know right, lol. We just did an attempt at changing the belt just to see if it will turn on, honestly we had no idea it was going to turn back on normally. Lucky me, tomorrow buying a few tickets.
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