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Old 11-30-2012, 03:09 PM   #2476
stevehnm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatHorse View Post
I think my mileage is creeping up on 4500 miles. We just got the car in August. It's a 5 speed. I would expect those with CVTs to get slightly better mileage even though they have more weight and a torque converter. Optimal gear ratios and all that.

Stevehnm, you've brought this up before and I do think it's interesting but I think you'd really need a much bigger sample size and a test for statistical significance (fun, I know!) before stating "QED". My opinion is that your little analysis reflects that the Impreza's mpg vs. speed curve is more unforgiving than some other cars.
BFH - I know I can get good gas mileage at 50 mph, but that's not highway, unless one wants to live really dangerously.

The sample was not picked by me either - I was just correcting the original author's erroneous analysis.

Also, I wonder if the "optimal gear rations" as you put it are optimized for the EPA test, and not for real world driving.

And, I'm trying to quit talking about it, but there are some dufi (that's plural for dufus) who continue to spout male cow excrement, so I am forced to continue to correct the impression left to others who may be watching the threads that the Impreza (cvt specifically) gets gas mileage that is in line with other vehicles that get the same EPA ratings. It doesn't.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:18 PM   #2477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
BFH - I know I can get good gas mileage at 50 mph, but that's not highway, unless one wants to live really dangerously.

The sample was not picked by me either - I was just correcting the original author's erroneous analysis.

Also, I wonder if the "optimal gear rations" as you put it are optimized for the EPA test, and not for real world driving.

And, I'm trying to quit talking about it, but there are some dufi (that's plural for dufus) who continue to spout male cow excrement, so I am forced to continue to correct the impression left to others who may be watching the threads that the Impreza (cvt specifically) gets gas mileage that is in line with other vehicles that get the same EPA ratings. It doesn't.
Did you just call these guys dufus's?

http://www.mpgomatic.com/2012/07/19/...-sport-review/
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:35 PM   #2478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper

Did you just call these guys dufus's?

http://www.mpgomatic.com/2012/07/19/...-sport-review/
Obviously they are lieing, it just isn't possible to get good mpg in this car. The only cars capable of good mileage are 2004 Toyota corollas driven above recommended speeds for best mpg in any vehicle
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:22 PM   #2479
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Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post

The manual says the upshift indicator can be switched on and off through the instrument panel, but on both settings, it never appears except during the LCD self-test on startup. Does anyone with a US-spec 5MT have a working upshift indicator?
nope, tried it.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:49 PM   #2480
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Some things I have noted from my own first hand experience.

The blue cold engine light shuts off around 120 deg F. Water Temp.
(This does NOT mean the vehicle is at full and optimal operating temp.)

The Thermostat seems to open at around 160 deg. F.

Full Operating temp. Could be anywhere from 190-210 depending on environmental factors and driving conditions.

If its a Cold winter morning its going to (obviously) Take a lot longer to get the the 160 deg. point than when its A much warmer day.

YOur car will run at higher rpms till the 160 deg point.

I have observed this not only on this car but previous cars as well.

The MPGs are really going to suffer till 160 deg is reached. Winter blend fuel and or fuel with Ethanol (Though Ethanol is another ball of wax for killing mpgs) is no help either.

So far my Mpgs have been within spec of epa estimates. I would like the opportunity to get some good long distance full tank highway runs To see what kind of MPGs I can tweak out there.

My previous vehicle was a 2004 Pontiac Vibe w/AWD. it was rated 31 hwy. It would easily do this if kept below 70mph. I was able to reach 36 for a tank once with about a 63mph speed average and no/ AC. Outside temps in the 50-70 range.

I have no doubt that the impreza is capable of at least 36 mpg hwy. You just have to keep on mind that epa does not test/simulate at 70+mph.

I think once at cruising speed keeping the RPMs down is what will help most.

I have a scangaugeII that will track individual runs (engine on to engine off) AVG. mpgs ( there are a few trips of over 10 miles I've seen this above 36.) Most of my trips are short trip city with varying amounts of stop and go.
Pretty much all of my driving within the city limits is classified (at least by me) as City driving regardless if the road I am on is called a highway.


All my mileage data has been entered at Fuely.com.

As stated before and I agree one of the biggest factors in MPGs is THE DRIVER!!

I hope all my rambling just now makes some sort of sense.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:31 AM   #2481
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The service manual says the thermostat begins to open at 189-196F and is fully open at 208F.

Aside from poor economy, I've noticed some slight bucking when cold.

Zion, does your SGII account for decel fuel-cut properly? My firmware is a few years old and does not. I trust the on-board MPG readout more.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:16 AM   #2482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "ZionZR2
I have no doubt that the impreza is capable of at least 36 mpg hwy. You just have to keep on mind that epa does not test/simulate at 70+mph.
They do test up to 80mph, it just isn't sustained at 80mph. Average is still 48mph
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:15 AM   #2483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
The service manual says the thermostat begins to open at 189-196F and is fully open at 208F.

Aside from poor economy, I've noticed some slight bucking when cold.

Zion, does your SGII account for decel fuel-cut properly? My firmware is a few years old and does not. I trust the on-board MPG readout more.
I have had my scangauge for a few years already as I used it my previous car and when I first got my Subie it did not acct for the fuel cut off (My pervious car did not have this feature anyway). I noticed the Scangauge folks were offering a firmware upgrade for a good price so I sent it in and they upgraded it. After that there were a few new features added and it does account for the fuel cut off.

One of the parameters I watch is the GPH or Gallons per hour. On decelerations this as expected drops to zero.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:20 AM   #2484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
They do test up to 80mph, it just isn't sustained at 80mph. Average is still 48mph
Average can be quite different (and in this case *is* quite different) than constant.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:02 PM   #2485
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OK. Have been following threads all evening to see if I was or was not the Lone Ranger, and see I am not. I live in rural SE MN, go into town occasionally, use the interstate now, then, and again. My average fuel economy is 24.9 actual, 21-23 around the township, 29-31 on the interstate.

The bottom line for me, all the technical issues not withstanding, is that over the past 20+ years and several cars, the EPA estimate has been a reasonable predictor of my personal fuel economy ... until my 2012 Impreza Sport Premium with CVT. Hondas, Toyotas, and even my 2011 Forester - within 6% of the EPA estimates on both cycles.

Call it buyers remorse if you will. I call it deception, and I say that with neither joy nor smugness. If I had to do it again it would be either another Forester (or perhaps an Outback) for me. More car, more off-road ground clearance, and a very modest penalty in operating costs.

It's a shame really. I like nearly everything else about it (most especially the color combo) other than having to limit my speed on gravel roads to 40-45 and the perpetual opaqueness of the rear window from collection of dust on the back hatch. If I don't limit my speed control issues will result as the traction control turns on and off resulting in fishtailing.
Not so with my Forester.

Last edited by bpeterson272; 12-01-2012 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:14 PM   #2486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpeterson272 View Post
OK. Have been following threads all evening to see if I was or was not the Lone Ranger, and see I am not. I live in rural SE MN, go into town occasionally, use the interstate now, then, and again. My average fuel economy is 24.9 actual, 21-23 around the township, 29-31 on the interstate.

The bottom line for me, all the technical issues not withstanding, is that over the past 20+ years and several cars, the EPA estimate has been a reasonable predictor of my personal fuel economy ... until my 2012 Impreza Sport Premium with CVT. Hondas, Toyotas, and even my 2011 Forester - within 6% of the EPA estimates on both cycles.

Call it buyers remorse if you will. I call it deception, and I say that with neither joy nor smugness. If I had to do it again it would be either another Forester (or perhaps an Outback) for me. More car, more off-road ground clearance, and a very modest penalty in operating costs.
The answer for me, I think, would have been the 5 speed. The cvt is just geared too tall, and when you compare there are not a lot of other vehicles where the auto beats the manual transmission. I love the car except the gas mileage with the cvt just sucks.

P.S. After your post you can expect some ridicule, mostly just from a couple of 5 speed owners. If you look into their posts you will see they aren't too bright, and there is not a lot of criticism from cvt owners.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:21 AM   #2487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
Aside from poor economy, I've noticed some slight bucking when cold.

Zion, does your SGII account for decel fuel-cut properly? My firmware is a few years old and does not. I trust the on-board MPG readout more.
My gph goes to zero on decel as well. I'm not sure why you don't trust the Scangauge. It's immediate, straight, math. Gph, speed, mpg, etc. it all matches up on mine. I've bought three - gave the oldest to my dad a long time ago and he put it in his motorhome, the other two I've had no problems or discrepencies with - they basically rearranged the modes to make more sense is all. I never did try the original one for zero gph on decel though, and it went when the motorhome was sold....

The on-board mpg takes a mile or so to read out, and in that mile it takes in some funky info and is unreliable, although it does come in to reality eventually. Mine reads about 5% fast, but when considering the odometer is 3% slow, it's eventually pretty close.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:36 AM   #2488
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I trust injector based calculation over airflow based calculation. The SGII's calculations are an approximation, which is why it asks you for engine displacement.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:47 AM   #2489
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Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
I trust injector based calculation over airflow based calculation. The SGII's calculations are an approximation, which is why it asks you for engine displacement.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:02 AM   #2490
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Is it only me and Zeeper that are old heads around here? (Random thought)
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:36 AM   #2491
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Is it only me and Zeeper that are old heads around here? (Random thought)
I didn't realize 45 was old.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:46 AM   #2492
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Well, stevehm, perhaps they have a point if the facts support their contention. I suspect you are aware CVT transmissions work on the principle of load control and become locked at some point in the load curve. It's not all that different than a multi-gear manual system where the driver makes a subjective decision of the same type. If your statement of being geared too tall is a contributor then a software update has the potential for improvement.

My heartburn is the differential between the Subaru-advertised performance and the reality in everyday use. This is precisely the issue that triggered the Kia owners lawsuit. I don't want to get rid of my car, just get the mileage to the level that convinced me to buy it.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:58 AM   #2493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpeterson272 View Post
Well, stevehm, perhaps they have a point if the facts support their contention. I suspect you are aware CVT transmissions work on the principle of load control and become locked at some point in the load curve. It's not all that different than a multi-gear manual system where the driver makes a subjective decision of the same type. If your statement of being geared too tall is a contributor then a software update has the potential for improvement.

My heartburn is the differential between the Subaru-advertised performance and the reality in everyday use. This is precisely the issue that triggered the Kia owners lawsuit. I don't want to get rid of my car, just get the mileage to the level that convinced me to buy it.
You posted your MPG's but didn't post your average speed. Since our theory is that the speed that Stevehm is driving is a bigger factor than the CVT it would help to know what speeds you are driving at the MPG's you quoted.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:22 AM   #2494
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I didn't realize 45 was old.
No no no Zeeper, old heads as in been around this thread for ages. LOL
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:36 AM   #2495
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I agree with you and gladly reply. City (although I actually drive around my township and only go into town occasionally) nominal 24 mph. Highway a cruise-controlled 65 mph.

Last edited by bpeterson272; 12-02-2012 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:39 AM   #2496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post


The real question is this: Why are the numbers Subaru gives to the EPA so much higher than the independent tests done by Consumer Reports etc., compared to - now pay attention - other cars with numbers reported to the EPA vs. the Consumer Reports tests? That has nothing to do with my driving.

Capisce? I think even a cretin can understand that, but I suspect I will have to explain it even more simply to you and Zeeper.
You posted your MPG's but didn't post your average speed. Since our theory is that the speed that Stevehm is driving is a bigger factor than the CVT it would help to know what speeds you are driving at the MPG's you quoted.

I was afraid of that. I guess the sentence was too long for you too?
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:49 AM   #2497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpeterson272 View Post
Well, stevehm, perhaps they have a point if the facts support their contention. I suspect you are aware CVT transmissions work on the principle of load control and become locked at some point in the load curve. It's not all that different than a multi-gear manual system where the driver makes a subjective decision of the same type. If your statement of being geared too tall is a contributor then a software update has the potential for improvement.

My heartburn is the differential between the Subaru-advertised performance and the reality in everyday use. This is precisely the issue that triggered the Kia owners lawsuit. I don't want to get rid of my car, just get the mileage to the level that convinced me to buy it.
I agree a software upgrade would be nice, but then they would have to explain to the world why their highway etc. mpg went down. I would guess it would be pretty easy to set up and tune the software while on the mpg machine to peak highway mileage for the machine.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:17 PM   #2498
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No no no Zeeper, old heads as in been around this thread for ages. LOL
I've been following it for a while, but not posting often.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:01 AM   #2499
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Just throwing this out there...

Poor MPG in a Mazda 3 with SKYACTIV. Weird, looks to me like the efficiency will vary with driving style and conditions.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...onomy-numbers/
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:25 AM   #2500
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With my 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid I could not pay attention to mileage and I would still beat the EPA estimated 36 MPG on the highway and if I applied even mild hypermiling techniques I could easily push it to 50-60 MPG on the highway. With the Impreza it seems that I have to apply mild hypermiling techniques just to get it to the EPA estimates and it is very difficult to get over the 40 MPG mark. I recently ordered an UltraGauge so I will see how much farther I can push it but I feel that 40 MPG will be near the top of the range for this vehicle.
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