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Old 01-10-2013, 07:10 AM   #2801
Guzzi 1
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Originally Posted by vwgti123 View Post
I friggin hate this car. 2013 SWP Sport Limited Moonroof/CVT. Willing to sell. No matter what I do I cannot break 30mpg. It has actually consumed me. My commute is about 20miles one way, mostly highway/bumper to bumper, and no matter how I drive.. I cannot break 30mpg Hand Calc.. screw the subaru trip computer.. thing is just dead wrong!!

My 2010 VW GTI 6spd was more fun, had better refinement, no rattles, a ton more power/torque, torque is the key to good MPG, handled better, and if driven the same way could easily break 30mpg. This the last Subaru I will ever buy.. gonna have to keep until warranty is close to running out and then probably going to buy the new MkVII GTI. I made a huge mistake, I needed an A/T transmission once Buick daily commter was totalled, did my research but to my own fault did not research enough I guess and actually feel violated by Subaru Of America for the innacurate MPG's this car can achieve.

If I could go back in time I would soo have kept the GTI. It is is a joke how off the MPG's are for this car. All these owners posting about getting well above 30mpg are either not hand calc or doing something that I am not aware of. We should all file a law suit. If anyone wants to be William Wallace.. I will gladly join the cause. Oh and by the way, my VW was a PZEV also.. but did not rev at 2k for 15mins and lose 4 mpg going a mile down the road.

Car is still on the lot.. go buy it.. I wish I could get it back, I am the original owner, even tried to trade the Impreza back to the clowns at Lester Glenn, offering them over 1k for usage for a car I had for not even 2mos and 1,500 but they tried to screw me for 4k in depreciation and told me that it was hit in parking lot there so I would not just travel and show up from NY to NJ to come get it and make a scene. I traded the VW in for 19k, worth more than that. I messed up, car was prestine and awesome. At least you will know that they paid 19k for the car.

Sorry for ranting... and if you love your imprezza, God Bless.. But for me this car falls way short on what was advertised all over the web and by reviewers. Truley Disapointed.

http://www.lesterglennusedcars.com/d...166/514182602/
I certainly don't dispute there are variations in fuel economy with owners, but to accuse those of us that have seen the real figures out of their car is a bit unfounded! Although I cannot speak for anyone else, the numbers I posted a couple of pages back were GPS miles and pump gallons. I will also freely admitt that I have seen a significant drop in mileage recently. Between the corn gas and my letting the car warm up, I have dropped to the mid 20's. I can only speak to MY car. It matches its published numbers, and no I do not dispute others are seeing lower numbers. Really though, You seem very dissatisfied and I don't blame you. Get rid of it because you will only continue to be aggravated. There is enough going on in life to be hung up on something you can do something about.

John
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:41 AM   #2802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwgti123 View Post
My commute is about 20miles one way, mostly highway/bumper to bumper, and no matter how I drive.. I cannot break 30mpg Hand Calc..
I would say those are two very key points, and add to the fact you live in NY and you car needs to warm up, you probably get the expected mileage. If you spend a lot of your life in stop and go traffic, you'd be better off with a hybrid.

Personally, I've given up on obsessing about my MPG. They seem to be decent in the warmer months, not so good now with the cold and winter tires. I find I can enjoy my car more if I stop worrying about it
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:46 AM   #2803
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^thats what i initially thought. Well what do you think is gonna happen in stop n go traffic. But if you didnt experience the similar affect with your other car then you make up your own mind.

In the end if youre unhappy with the car, then not much is gonna change your mind. Prob best to cut your losses and get something else.

Hard for me to say that being a subaru enthusiast lol


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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
As I type this I'm getting 26mpg going 65 in a 75 because of the 30mph headwind I'm driving in to. This entire tank seems to be against 20+ mph headwind and this is the first time I've slowed down
Catching up on the forum while driving, and responding??? you must be a daredevil , or i misunderstood.... lol

Last edited by myrt1987; 01-10-2013 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:15 AM   #2804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwgti123 View Post
I friggin hate this car. 2013 SWP Sport Limited Moonroof/CVT. Willing to sell. No matter what I do I cannot break 30mpg. It has actually consumed me. My commute is about 20miles one way, mostly highway/bumper to bumper, and no matter how I drive.. I cannot break 30mpg Hand Calc.. screw the subaru trip computer.. thing is just dead wrong!!

My 2010 VW GTI 6spd was more fun, had better refinement, no rattles, a ton more power/torque, torque is the key to good MPG, handled better, and if driven the same way could easily break 30mpg. This the last Subaru I will ever buy.. gonna have to keep until warranty is close to running out and then probably going to buy the new MkVII GTI. I made a huge mistake, I needed an A/T transmission once Buick daily commter was totalled, did my research but to my own fault did not research enough I guess and actually feel violated by Subaru Of America for the innacurate MPG's this car can achieve.

If I could go back in time I would soo have kept the GTI. It is is a joke how off the MPG's are for this car. All these owners posting about getting well above 30mpg are either not hand calc or doing something that I am not aware of. We should all file a law suit. If anyone wants to be William Wallace.. I will gladly join the cause. Oh and by the way, my VW was a PZEV also.. but did not rev at 2k for 15mins and lose 4 mpg going a mile down the road.

Car is still on the lot.. go buy it.. I wish I could get it back, I am the original owner, even tried to trade the Impreza back to the clowns at Lester Glenn, offering them over 1k for usage for a car I had for not even 2mos and 1,500 but they tried to screw me for 4k in depreciation and told me that it was hit in parking lot there so I would not just travel and show up from NY to NJ to come get it and make a scene. I traded the VW in for 19k, worth more than that. I messed up, car was prestine and awesome. At least you will know that they paid 19k for the car.

Sorry for ranting... and if you love your imprezza, God Bless.. But for me this car falls way short on what was advertised all over the web and by reviewers. Truley Disapointed.

http://www.lesterglennusedcars.com/d...166/514182602/
What were your reasons for getting rid of the GTI? It sounds like the only reasons were to get an automatic tranny and better MPGs. Or were there other features of the Impreza that caused you to make that choice, like that it has 4 doors?

As someone who went from a TDI to an Impreza (although mine has the manual tranny), I have the following comments and perspective:
  • You said "but did not rev at 2k for 15mins and lose 4 mpg going a mile down the road". The only way you will see that kind of change in your average MPG reading is if you recently filled the tank and zeroed the trip odometer. Average MPG won't change that quickly once you have more miles on the trip.
  • Don't forget to factor in the higher price of the premium gas the GTI requires compared to the regular gas you're feeding the Impreza. You say that you could easily get more than 30 MPG in the GTI. Now I'm not going to call you a liar, but just for the record, the average MPG for the Impreza on Fuelly is 28 MPG, and the average for the GTI on Fuelly is 26 MPG. Regardless, the GTI wasn't cheaper to operate because of the more expensive gas it requires. I see from the GTI's ad that you only put 17k miles on a 2010 car. So you're only driving something like 5k miles/year, and as such, fuel economy shouldn't be a big concern for you.
  • I can understand why the GTI was a more pleasurable drive for you than the Impreza. To go from a sporty car with a stick to an Impreza with a CVT is bound to disappoint. The Impreza is a more practical car, but if you were looking to match the GTI's fun factor, well, you made a poor choice. You probably should have traded it in on another GTI with the DSG tranny and 4 doors. Or a WRX would have given you the fun factor and more reliability than the GTI, and could also be purchased with 4 doors and an auto tranny.

I suggest that you sell the Impreza via a private sale out of your own driveway to get more money for it (you should have done the same with your GTI), and then buy the car you really want. When I was buying my Impreza, the Subaru dealership would only offer $16.5k for my TDI in trade. I sold it myself for $22k.

And don't let any car's fuel economy be a major factor in your purchase decision. You drive so little miles/year that it just doesn't make much difference.

Good luck!

Last edited by sgoldste01; 01-10-2013 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:31 AM   #2805
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I decided to change my oil early to the Subaru 0w-20 at just shy of 3,000 miles 2 nights ago. Right now my MPG on the car computer is at over 28 MPG where typically it would be a couple of MPG lower prior to the oil change. The engine is smoother now and feels quicker to rev with the fresh oil.

I noticed on the expressway that I am able to get the instant fuel economy readout to sit at 40mpg pretty easily while cruising at 63mph now. I expect that my next mostly highway tank will return some great numbers even with the winter blend fuel and colder weather.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:42 AM   #2806
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jay25, what kind of oil did you use previously?
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:49 AM   #2807
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jay25, what kind of oil did you use previously?
It was the factory fill.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:20 AM   #2808
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So we have established that if you mostly drive faster than 70mph, do mainly short trips with a cold engine, or drive a lot in stop and go traffic, or if you think it is underpowered, and make up for it by hammering the crap out of it, you will not come close to the EPA MPG numbers.

However there are other drivers, as evidenced by the data on Fuelly, and the multiple posts here from owners, who are achieving the EPA numbers (driving both the CVT and the 5 speed). Nobody here is paid to lie about their mileage, good or bad.

Keep in mind that just because you don't achieve the EPA numbers due to your style of driving or the type of driving you do, it does not mean nobody is achieving the EPA numbers with the new Impreza. Don't believe me, look at the data yourself on Fuelly, which has far more MPG data than any other source has accumulated so far.

If you are thinking about buying the car, definately consider the experience of the high speed or short commute or bumper to bumper commuters to decide if it is right for you, or if you would be better off with a prius. Also don't buy it if you think it is underpowered compared to what you expect. That is dumb, and you will be disappointed. There are trade-offs in buying a non-turbo 2 liter AWD car that runs on regular unleaded.

Consumer Reports still recommends the car and has not said anything about the poor mileage -- actually they praised the mileage for the AWD Impreza, so keep that in mind. They also predict this car will be among the most reliable on the road. Those are facts you can check for yourself.

If you hate the car stop fretting, the resale value is high and you can get something else, there are plenty of cars to choose from. Don't let the forum door hit you in the butt on your way out.

Last edited by Zeeper; 01-10-2013 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:31 AM   #2809
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if mpg is important and a primary factory might I suggest a honda or a toyota that way you get a fairly reliable car and your mpg. I have also never had any car that didn't take a hit in winter so......
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:34 AM   #2810
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Or a hyundai, or a kia, or a mazda, or a ford, or a chevy... everyone who makes a fwd car will welcome your trade, because they know that the Impreza will be easy to resell to someone else.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:36 AM   #2811
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not a hyundai their epa numbers are false
well before they had them corrected lol
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:48 AM   #2812
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Or a hyundai, or a kia, or a mazda, or a ford, or a chevy... everyone who makes a fwd car will welcome your trade, because they know that the Impreza will be easy to resell to someone else.
No. Keep in mind the car that VWGTI is coming from. He would be disappointed with all of those cars. He only drives 5k miles/year. Fuel economy should be his least concern.

The only cars I can think of that he might like (without spending a lot more money than the GTI) are another GTI but with the DSG tranny, a Focus ST (but that might only be available with a stick; I'm not sure), or a WRX or STI (with auto tranny).

I suspect he would hate ALL of the other cars you're suggesting, because fuel economy is not his real concern (whether he's willing to admit it or not). But driving dynamics, coming from a GTI which we all know is a hoot to drive, is what really matters to him; without that, he will be disappointed. So he needs another sporty car, not a Civic/Corolla/Hyundai/etc. And Long Island doesn't get snow like I do in upstate NY, and is mostly flat, so AWD isn't necessary for him either.

He just bought the wrong car. Coming from a TDI, I know what he misses about the GTI. While I've come to embrace the Impreza's advantages, he's having trouble making that transition (going from a 6 speed manual to the Impreza's CVT is probably the hardest part of that transition for him; my TDI and Impreza both had/have manual trannies, so I can squeeze more performance out of my Impreza than he can out of his).

This is just a case of buyer's remorse because VWGTI didn't accurately evaluate what's really important to him in a car. So you're right that he will only be happy selling his Impreza, but the cars you're suggesting won't do the trick either.

Last edited by sgoldste01; 01-10-2013 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:44 PM   #2813
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FYI I meet but do not exceed the EPA numbers with my Impreza, though this winter with snow tires I am seeing about 26 mpg, which is 2mpg lower than average combined (28 mpg).

My previous 2008 5 speed hyundai elantra exceeded its EPA numbers by about 2 mpg on the same exact commute. However it was undriveable where I live in the winter if there was snow (with brand new Nokian WRG2 tires, which are very good in the snow, however it lacked traction control).

In my opinion (and my wife, who has a more important opinion than I do most of the time) the Subaru Impreza is much more solid, and feels safer, and especially with snow tires is a beast in the winter. I would not trade back (I drove the newly designed Elantra, and it felt the same as my 2008 -- the only advantage I could see in trading for a new Elantra was the traction control -- but the Impreza has that covered in spades).

I have no idea what car the other person would like better, whatever it is can be found easily and the Impreza will be easy to trade.

I think it is useful to note the type of driving conditions where others report poorer than expected MPG's, so prospective buyers know what to expect if they drive it the same way.

It is also important to note that many owners are meeting and exceeding the EPA numbers with both the CVT and 5 speed, so you don't blame the car for the results of the particular driver or driving style.

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Old 01-10-2013, 01:50 PM   #2814
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If we keep drinking the kool-aid like this, Subaru can finally release their hybrid!

Promise 50MPG, deliver 25 and you guys will still defend it.

It's staggering how many people are missing the point, the majority of people who bought this car are well below an acceptable margin of error for posted MPG numbers.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:55 PM   #2815
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Brys,

Your statement has no basis in fact. Please go look at the distribution of MPG's shown on Fuelly, and compare the average MPG there to the Combined Fuel Economy number shown on the window sticker that came on your car.

Let us know where you get the data that a majority of owners are well below the MPG's stated on the window sticker -- do you have more data than shown on Fuelly? Right now it is 211 cars tracked over 1.5 million miles, and includes engine break in for many or all of those cars (since most people I know that are on fuelly have tracked since new).

You can also ask them, many of those Fuelly vehicles belong to NASIOC members that are posting here...

My car is no longer on Fuelly, but as stated I am at 27.99 MPG overall, including my lower than average numbers from driving on snow tires this winter (the first winter it had yokos on).

Last edited by Zeeper; 01-10-2013 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:09 PM   #2816
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I'm on there too Zeeper, and if you look at the average for 2012, It's 27.7, 26.7 for 2013.

Calculated, the city MPG is 27, Highway is 36, making the combined being 31.5MPG.

So that means the 2012 is on average 12% off the mark, 15% for 2013.

Hyundai and Honda got punished for a fleet average LESS THAN 10%

If you search through Fuelly there are 16 people who have met the 31.5 MPG mark, out of 211 cars.

So 7.6% of people make the mark. That does not seem like many people to me.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:48 PM   #2817
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I'm on there too Zeeper, and if you look at the average for 2012, It's 27.7, 26.7 for 2013.

Calculated, the city MPG is 27, Highway is 36, making the combined being 31.5MPG.

So that means the 2012 is on average 12% off the mark, 15% for 2013.

Hyundai and Honda got punished for a fleet average LESS THAN 10%

If you search through Fuelly there are 16 people who have met the 31.5 MPG mark, out of 211 cars.

So 7.6% of people make the mark. That does not seem like many people to me.
Don't forget that the manual transmission cars are rated lower than the CVT, mine is rated 25 city, 33 highway and 28 combined. Fuelly includes both manual and CVT models in their data. So your 12% off the mark calculation is wrong, as it does not take into account the lower expected average for 5 speeds.

Also, the cars on Fuelly were mostly there since new, so the Fuel economy includes engine break-in. No one should expect MPG's to meet EPA numbers until the car is broken in, my car started to show better numbers after 3,000 miles, though that also corresponded with warmer temps and non-winter fuel.

So 1-2 mpg off the window sticker combined fuel average is not much, and won't win you any class action lawsuits. If you've been on fuelly for a while (I was, now I just track it all on my iPhone with Gas Cubby) you know that combined average has been climbing, not dropping. That is evidence that after break in MPG's are increasing.

I will go way out on a limb (not really) and predict here in writing that the combined MPG number shown for the 2013's will also be climbing over time as the engines get broken in.

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Old 01-10-2013, 02:51 PM   #2818
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Originally Posted by BrysImpreza View Post
I'm on there too Zeeper, and if you look at the average for 2012, It's 27.7, 26.7 for 2013.

Calculated, the city MPG is 27, Highway is 36, making the combined being 31.5MPG.

So that means the 2012 is on average 12% off the mark, 15% for 2013.

Hyundai and Honda got punished for a fleet average LESS THAN 10%

If you search through Fuelly there are 16 people who have met the 31.5 MPG mark, out of 211 cars.

So 7.6% of people make the mark. That does not seem like many people to me.
You can't give figures for only the CVT sedan and make up your own combined. You can't compare that made up number to a general Fuelly number that includes hatches, sedans, manuals, and cvts. There is no amount of math that would allow you to conclude that the Impreza's are 12-15% off of the estimated combined mpg.

The estimated MPG for the manual hatch is 25/33, 28 combined. The CVT sedan is 27/36, with 30 combined. Source: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymod..._Impreza.shtml
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:58 PM   #2819
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Don't forget that the manual transmission cars are rated lower than the CVT, mine is 27 city, 33 highway and 28 combined. Fuelly includes both manual and CVT models in their data. Also, the cars on Fuelly were mostly there since new, so the Fuel economy includes engine break-in. No one should expect MPG's to meet EPA numbers until the car is broken in, my car started to show better numbers after 3,000 miles, though that also corresponded with warmer temps and non-winter fuel.

So 1-2 mpg off the window sticker combined fuel average is not much, and won't win you any class action lawsuits. If you've been on fuelly for a while (I was) you know that combined average has been climbing, not dropping. That is evidence that after break in MPG's are increasing.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:03 PM   #2820
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Wow, when you get the math wrong that is all you are left with? Who is drinking the koolaide now?
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:12 PM   #2821
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Wow, when you get the math wrong that is all you are left with? Who is drinking the koolaide now?
Lets go with your logic.

2012 Impreza Sedan CVT, 27/36. Combined 31.5

According to listings on fuelly for those specs sedan and cvt, i still get 28.35 MPG average.

I even dropped the 19.6 MPG outlayer, so you could feel better about yourself.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:20 PM   #2822
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On to 2013 CVT.

27.78 MPG

Still 12% off.

SAD
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:23 PM   #2823
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I feel fine already, I just like people to be accurate when they make a claim.

You might want to look at the window sticker for your car, my car states 25/33 combined 28, though if I calculate the average myself it would be 29. I am at 27.99 over the 9,000 miles I have had the car, including two winters, one with snow tires, and engine break in.

.01 off the mark. I am not heartbroken.

I have no doubt you think the EPA numbers are way off, and some drivers totally agree with you, while others do not. The average driver is close to the Combined Average number on their window sticker, using Fuelly as the resource to mine that data.

Driver style and the type of driving make a difference, you haven't stated what your typical drive is like, so I can't comment on why you might be seeing lower than average MPG from your impreza.

Last edited by Zeeper; 01-10-2013 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:25 PM   #2824
Zeeper
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On to 2013 CVT.

27.78 MPG

Still 12% off.

SAD
I guess you missed my prediction, that the number on fuelly will climb after engine break in. That's what happened for the 2012 Impreza's on Fuelly.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:29 PM   #2825
BrysImpreza
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I feel fine already, I just like people to be accurate when they make a claim.

I have no doubt you think the EPA numbers are way off, and some drivers totally agree with you, while others do not. The average driver is close to the Combined Average number on their window sticker.
.
So 7.2% of owners is the average who meet the advertised MPG? I don't think I am the one who needs a math check (EPA, I'm looking at you).
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